Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[BombersDave]

So you are saying we need a plan that allows us to continue playing unaccountable where we just run forward of the footy and not defend . That is what suits the players.
What we actually need is the next lot of leaders in the playing group not to be just nice blokes.
The list has no hard edge. We will be the same under any coach until we turn players over and they get on board with a defensive game plan.

Missing the point a bit so maybe it's how I worded it. I'm saying a game plan that embraces the players strengths and builds around those attributes.

 

[IHurley]

Wow.
Clarkson is not a panacea. He achieved premierships in a completely different context than what he would walk into at Tullamarine; different staff, different roles and responsibilities and a different list. There are no guarantees of success simply from bringing him in.

We're not Carlton - we have zero depth in our list to support any serious run to a finals campaign and simply bringing in Clarko won't change that.

Dumping Rutten so early without giving him the chance to rebuild and develop and manifest his system would simply continue the destabilisation and waste careers. As well, Brasher has already said outright that Rutten has the support of the board. Until that changes this isn't even a discussion.

People need to calm down.

No coach has ever been sacked after being given "the full support of the board".

 

[JayJ20]

Not really.

Remember Malthouse started coaching the Dogs in 1984. He had coached 16 seasons prior to joining Collingwood.

He was unbelievable for Collingwood, all things considered. Shit list into 2 gfs, a full rebuild and then left the club with a dynasty Buckley decided to pick apart.

Clarko is Malthouse of 2000 but a little older (he started coaching later). Whoever he is coaching now might only get 6 to 8 good years. You just need to have a plan for a transition at the right time. That's applying our conventions when it comes to age of coaches. In NFL and soccer being 60 doesn't matter.

I'm not saying Clarko is completely cooked, but I don't think he suits us. A big club with a disenfranchised fanbase and no finals win in 18 years isn't the right environment. I don't see Clarko being interested in that. We need a young long-term coach who has the enthusiasm to deal with the current fiasco around our club at the moment. Think Richmond with Hardwick and Melbourne with Goodwin. GWS, Gold Coast or North will do well with Clarkson.

Having another coach with a new gameplan after only a year and a couple of months after Woosha will set us back even more. Rutten and Caracella's credentials speak for themselves. Let's back that and build a side capable of playing the way Rutten and Caracella want us to play.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

We need to be patient with Rutten. 18 months into his tenure is not the time to throw the toys out of the cot. If we are in the same position this time next year then it's another story.

 

[brain taylor]

it'd be a real shame to bring in rutten with these assistants for a rebuild, get these promising kids on board (with some more high picks to come) then sack the guy before he really gets to develop them and implement his vision

 

[ant555]

Missing the point a bit so maybe it's how I worded it. I'm saying a game plan that embraces the players strengths and builds around those attributes.

And I am saying the last three coaches have all said we need to be better defensively yet the players have failed to grasp it. Yes coaches do have to make a plan to suit the players but what plan are you making for a list that has been poor defensively for 12 years. A team that is generally labeled as nice and easy to play against ? And a club that has seen its culture slide into comfortable?
Right now we could play a simple game plan that allows us to play easy football but how many more years are we going to play easy football?
Who is the coach that will break that mould?
The way out is not to keep doing what we have been. It is new leaders and new attitudes driven by turn over of list . It is not making a game plan to suit how the current list so we can continue to be mediocre mid range.
Time to break the culture of nice. Time to take those who want to defend with us and leave those who do not behind.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

2022 footy is about defence AND attack.

Defending alone will not win a flag. Need to be able to score heavily in bursts too.

Problem with us at the moment is we can do neither. We put zero scoreboard pressure on teams. If they hold 2MP we have nothing. Many times last night they double teamed him, but we still kicked to outumber situations.

Agreed. We have a million problems right now but one of the compounding issues is that with injuries we have too many young players who don’t have several preseasons under their belt and can’t run back and forward hard for a whole half, let alone a full match.

Combine this with a few senior midfielders who are fit enough who don’t run back enough and we look like we do.

When we focus and commit to the game plan and run back hard we’re too gassed to run hard forward when we have the ball so we crab sideways til we get players upfield to kick to.

Then everyone loses their shit about us not being able to score so they run hard forward then are too gassed to run hard back.

Right now personally I don’t care about scoring, I just want defense right and as long as the players can tell the coaches when and where they should have attacked that’s enough til we’re fit enough.

 

[CBombers17]

And I am saying the last three coaches have all said we need to be better defensively yet the players have failed to grasp it. Yes coaches do have to make a plan to suit the players but what plan are you making for a list that has been poor defensively for 12 years. A team that is generally labeled as nice and easy to play against ? And a club that has seen its culture slide into comfortable?
Right now we could play a simple game plan that allows us to play easy football but how many more years are we going to play easy football?
Who is the coach that will break that mould?
The way out is not to keep doing what we have been. It is new leaders and new attitudes driven by turn over of list . It is not making a game plan to suit how the current list so we can continue to be mediocre mid range.
Time to break the culture of nice. Time to take those who want to defend with us and leave those who do not behind.

How do you see last nights dumbing down of the gameplan reflects on our direction? Do you think the club made the move to help change the culture of the playing group?

Or is it possible senior leadership at the club were more concerned with stopping more smashings and how they could reflect on them?

 

[brain taylor]

How do you see last nights dumbing down of the gameplan reflects on our direction? Do you think the club made the move to help change the culture of the playing group?

Or is it possible senior leadership at the club were more concerned with stopping more smashings and how they could reflect on them?

i'd imagine that they might be trying to dial back the complexity of the plan so our players can more easily digest it, and maybe they're focusing on getting maximum effort out of the players, and establishing baseline expectations before they start to introduce more intricate aspects of a plan.

 

[ant555]

How do you see last nights dumbing down of the gameplan reflects on our direction? Do you think the club made the move to help change the culture of the playing group?

Or is it possible senior leadership at the club were more concerned with stopping more smashings and how they could reflect on them?

I think it is short sighted but the club is under pressure from the coterie groups for results as usual. I see it as a step backwards but the coach has had limited options to replace players in the side so far so pressure for spots has been minimal.
I guess they can still work on the tackling pressure but it is not ideal.

 

[JayJ20]

And I am saying the last three coaches have all said we need to be better defensively yet the players have failed to grasp it. Yes coaches do have to make a plan to suit the players but what plan are you making for a list that has been poor defensively for 12 years. A team that is generally labeled as nice and easy to play against ? And a club that has seen its culture slide into comfortable?
Right now we could play a simple game plan that allows us to play easy football but how many more years are we going to play easy football?
Who is the coach that will break that mould?
The way out is not to keep doing what we have been. It is new leaders and new attitudes driven by turn over of list . It is not making a game plan to suit how the current list so we can continue to be mediocre mid range.
Time to break the culture of nice. Time to take those who want to defend with us and leave those who do not behind.

To add to this, the second half of 2018 under Woosha was probably the best we've been defensively in a long time. After a bad opening two games in 2019, we reverted back to an attacking gameplan due to public pressure vs Melbourne with little to no defence. Everyone praised Essendon after that game, the players were happy and the rest is history. I'd rather be bad this year and make the necessary list changes to improve our team defence than to revert back to what we know won't work. The alternative is just kicking the can down the road.

 

[CBombers17]

I think it is short sighted but the club is under pressure from the coterie groups for results as usual. I see it as a step backwards but the coach has had limited options to replace players in the side so far so pressure for spots has been minimal.
I guess they can still work on the tackling pressure but it is not ideal.

Pressure for spots may be minimal but making them grind it out for a change would actually have a chance of changing the culture.

This is teaching the youngster players plenty -on how to buck the system at Essendon. The club doesn't have the spine to cop the floggings that come when senior players won't follow the plan.

 

[emblurr]

Definitely a 'you know' person during his press conferences. Counted 54 during his last one and the obligatory 'yeah nah'. That's one 'you know' every 8 seconds.

 

[yodellinhank]

And I am saying the last three coaches have all said we need to be better defensively yet the players have failed to grasp it. Yes coaches do have to make a plan to suit the players but what plan are you making for a list that has been poor defensively for 12 years. A team that is generally labeled as nice and easy to play against ? And a club that has seen its culture slide into comfortable?
Right now we could play a simple game plan that allows us to play easy football but how many more years are we going to play easy football?
Who is the coach that will break that mould?
The way out is not to keep doing what we have been. It is new leaders and new attitudes driven by turn over of list . It is not making a game plan to suit how the current list so we can continue to be mediocre mid range.
Time to break the culture of nice. Time to take those who want to defend with us and leave those who do not behind.

People going on about game plans as if they're some elaborately intricate code that John Nash could put up on a blackboard and spend all season contemplating the complexities. The failings we see, highlighted by the media, failure to hold place in a zone? It's the kind of thing u16 kids have little trouble understanding.

3 Essendon players sucked to the same position on the wing with no opponent threatening to enter that space, when the opposition have possession, isn't a symptom of any strategy. It's just plain arse dumb****ery.

 

[CBombers17]

People going on about game plans as if they're some elaborately intricate code that John Nash could put up on a blackboard and spend all season contemplating the complexities. The failings we see, highlighted by the media, failure to hold place in a zone? It's the kind of thing u16 kids have little trouble understanding.

3 Essendon players sucked to the same position on the wing with no opponent threatening to enter that space, when the opposition have possession, isn't a symptom of any strategy. It's just plain arse dumbduckery.

Players can come from Ireland learn how to kick an oval shaped ball (and handball and tackle) and all the rules in this sort of time frame. But we can't understand the zone yet. OK.

 

[yodellinhank]

For a second there I thought I'd accidentally evaded the filter Lore

 

[Lore]

For a second there I thought I'd accidentally evaded the filter Lore

Dumbduckery is my new favourite

 

[faible]

People going on about game plans as if they're some elaborately intricate code that John Nash could put up on a blackboard and spend all season contemplating the complexities. The failings we see, highlighted by the media, failure to hold place in a zone? It's the kind of thing u16 kids have little trouble understanding.

3 Essendon players sucked to the same position on the wing with no opponent threatening to enter that space, when the opposition have possession, isn't a symptom of any strategy. It's just plain arse dumbduckery.

Incredibly simplistic analysis.

If complex game plans were so simple to execute under the time, fatigue and pressure at AFL level, then all clubs would have great ones.

That they don't, should probably tell you you're missing something in your analysis.

Yes, players make dumb decisions, no, they're probably not as dumb as they appear to be to you.

 

[yodellinhank]

Incredibly simplistic analysis.

If complex game plans were so simple to execute under the time, fatigue and pressure at AFL level, then all clubs would have great ones.

That they don't, should probably tell you you're missing something in your analysis.

Yes, players make dumb decisions, no, they're probably not as dumb as they appear to be to you.

They aren't complex, it's football.

 

[faible]

They aren't complex, it's football.

Uh huh.

 

[Petrify]

Have a feeling he was stripping the game plan to the simplest form (high pressure) so players could understand and will slowly reintroduce things over the next few weeks.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I have no issues with letting trucks runs plan run out, whats another 1-2 years of dogshit when we have already had 20. but the fact of the matter is we are going backwards. Quickly.

We are completely uncompetitive in most games we have played this year, which is a stark difference to last year, whats changed between this year and last? We have he same cattle on the park and I assume the same game plan.

 

[Petrify]

We have he same cattle on the park and I assume the same game plan.

Not really, we're missing quite a lot of players right now. A fit Stringer, Langford & Snelling makes a huge difference to our team.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not really, we're missing quite a lot of players right now. A fit Stringer, Langford & Snelling makes a huge difference to our team.

i very much doubt the introduction of those 3 changes anything where we are at right now.

 

[Beerfish]

i very much doubt the introduction of those 3 changes anything where we are at right now.

Overall probably not but you can't deny those 3 inclusions immediately make us more competitive. Langford going down in the first 5 minutes of round 1 not to be seen again has been a pretty big loss. Bigger than a lot of people realise perhaps.