Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[JayJ20]

Out of the 4 coaches we've signed post-Sheedy, only 1 has been an Essendon person.

So I think it's out of touch because Sheedy himself is in a different category (as outlined earlier), it doesn't fit the overall narrative - and is a result of a pretty low sample size in the grand scheme of things club history-wise due to Sheeds taking up the 26 years prior.

If we had the Essendon-person lust that is described, then we never would have signed Knights, never would have signed Worsfold and never would have signed Rutten. It's as simple as that. And even in the Hird era we were sober enough to know when it was right to part ways - and didn't just replace him with another Essendon person in the wake of it.

And our most recent pursuit, was less from where he was from, and more from what he could bring in terms of stability and trust (even though in hindsight we could clearly see he was a flog of the highest order for the empty and unjustified lead-on that he could have ended at any point after declining GWS).

In regards to Hird, I think it's less about Hird being an Essendon person that makes Sheedy (reportedly) an advocate - but more-so because Sheedy knows that Hird knows everything that he knows. He taught him. He mentored him. It's more about Hird being the student of what was a linearly improving, straight shooting, premiership winning turn-around king in Sheedy than anything else. And I can understand that. Doesn't exactly mean Hird is a great coach, but I can understand where he'd be coming from.

But like I said, it's either you pull a Sheedy, which quickly helps absolve you of any Essendon link (hard to do, because he wasn't just any person) - or you show consistent signs of improvement, even in a loss, to indicate a reason for continued patience that is based more on logic and reasoning and less on faith. Hard to do, but easier than emulating Sheedy if you're worth your caper, and hence, if you take the Essendon job, you better be up for it.

I think you’re missing the point. They do recruit coaches outside of Essendon people, but make it very very difficult for them to operate. Woosha, Rutten and Knights all indicated this. This seems to be an Essendon exclusive issue. Other clubs embrace their coach as if they played for the club. The support Knights received in comparison to Hird (even until this very day) is night and day. The support Rutten is receiving in comparison to Hird is also night and day.

Do you think the club would have treated Hird, Lloyd, Bomber, Watson (if he ever coaches) and any other past Essendon player the way they treated Rutten this week? There’s no doubt that Clarkson doesn’t even get a call if Hird was coach.

What you mention about Sheedy advocating for Hird is exactly the problem. Goodwin (who coaches the reigning premiers) and Rutten were teammates. Why dismiss the credentials of non-Essendon people and favour Essendon people? Hird had his time and it was an utter disaster. Give someone else a fair go.

 

[JayJ20]

Of course the players are being asked too much. We've got zero hard ball winners in the middle of the ground. We are routinely asking them to compete out sized and out skilled. We have zero small forwards with pace, meaning mids have to press and push back. We have one really good runner in the midfield in Durham who is being asked to mark three players at once.

We are asking Durham, Perkins, D'Ambrossio, Reid, Bryan, Hobbs, Martin to immediately hit the ground running and be AFL standard without confident leaders guiding them.

Dodoro has built a list so unbalanced that everyone has to everything all the time, rather than be like other sides and just have defined roles in a team.

Excellent. I would like this 10 times if I could.

Yesterday they asked Laverde to play on Lynch because there is no one else with the strength to play on him. That’s asking way too much of Laverde.

 

[BrunoV]

With multiple things wrong, and the list going through a rebuild, how can you be certain it's the coach?

The rebuild was always going to take time. I'm sick of the sacking the coach mid-way through a rebuild only to achieve the lofty heights of an elimination final thumping mentality. If the club wasn't run by impatient fans, maybe we might actually see something through and get some real success.

Hurley who would know better than most has called for 'stability' above all else.

That's stability for its sake. We will need stability at some point, obviously. I'd aim for October 2022 to October 2032.

But it's probably up to you to specify why it is we should persist with a guy who cannot be credited with any defensive improvement in his 4 years. 4 years that the players haven't taken his message seriously, which is why we're here.

Now we've blow up the authority and credibility he had by chasing another coach openly. The risk is that the culprits contine to tank defensively because the coach is only really a few bad results from being gone. Interim coach comes in, we play to enjoy the results improve and we convince ourselves that is who we really are (not appreciating that it is who we are and why we're shit). We've done this every year now from 2017.

Does anyone seriously think this is a recipe for success?

We're adopting another wasted year next year with instability for what? What is the compelling reason? I've said it a number of times, compare what we are doing with Adelaide under Nicks.

We started in the middle of trying to solve the problem, again, last year. That's Rutten's fault.

Yes we don't have the ball winners I'd like but how does that excuse a lack of application and intensity at the contest? He set up the team to play in space, what I call circle work, and now he needs to reign it back in? When has anything like that worked?

I need someone to articulate a compelling reason Rutten is the right man. No one at Essendon does or can. Other than citing his time at Richmond no one can here either. Stability is not a compelling reason.

All it took was 3 years of Knights attack focus and poor leadership, among the players, for a rot that contaminated 3 to 4 generations of players. Why would we do that again?

 

[JayJ20]

Of course the players are being asked too much. We've got zero hard ball winners in the middle of the ground. We are routinely asking them to compete out sized and out skilled. We have zero small forwards with pace, meaning mids have to press and push back. We have one really good runner in the midfield in Durham who is being asked to mark three players at once.

We are asking Durham, Perkins, D'Ambrossio, Reid, Bryan, Hobbs, Martin to immediately hit the ground running and be AFL standard without confident leaders guiding them.

Dodoro has built a list so unbalanced that everyone has to everything all the time, rather than be like other sides and just have defined roles in a team.

To add to that, Heppell is the perfect example of a player that was asked to do too much. His body is practically finished at his age because Watson was never replaced. He should never have been the main inside mid. This is why I say it’s a list management issue.

 

[Jordanio]

That's stability for its sake. We will need stability at some point, obviously. I'd aim for October 2022 to October 2032.

But it's probably up to you to specify why it is we should persist with a guy who cannot be credited with any defensive improvement in his 4 years. 4 years that the players haven't taken his message seriously, which is why we're here.

Now we've blow up the authority and credibility he had by chasing another coach openly. The risk is that the culprits contine to tank defensively because the coach is only really a few bad results from being gone. Interim coach comes in, we play to enjoy the results improve and we convince ourselves that is who we really are (not appreciating that it is who we are and why we're s**t). We've done this every year now from 2017.

Does anyone seriously think this is a recipe for success?

We're adopting another wasted year next year with instability for what? What is the compelling reason? I've said it a number of times, compare what we are doing with Adelaide under Nicks.

We started in the middle of trying to solve the problem against last year. That's Rutten's fault.

Yes we don't have the ball winners I'd like but how does that excuse a lack of application and intensity at the contest? He set up the team to play in space, what I call circle work, and now he needs to reign it back in? When has anything like that worked?

I need someone to articulate a compelling reason Rutten is the right man. No one at Essendon does or can. Other than citing his time at Richmond no one can here either. Stability is not a compelling reason.

All it took was 3 years of Knights attack focus and poor leadership, among the players, for a rot that contaminated 3 to 4 generations of players. Why would we do that again?

Totally agree. On the ball.
Its accountability

 

[Jordanio]

I read in some posts saying Truck is being used as a scape goat.
Scape goat or accountable?

 

[ghostdog]

Most interesting part of the presser for mine was “I didn’t play here but I am an Essendon person”.

Ie “I’m Essendon too, step treating me like s**t because I’m not an old boy”

He also kept being inclusive, mentioning "our" footy club, players, supporters, members etc. He's invested up to his eyeballs.

 

[Lore]

I read in some posts saying Truck is being used as a scape goat.
Scape goat or accountable?

How many successful coaching tenures have we had since Sheedy? Suggests it’s probably not the coach.

Maybe start with holding someone accountable for that, instead of yes, another scape goat so we can pretend he was the problem and continue to make the same stupid mistakes for another 20 years.

 

[Lore]

He also kept being inclusive, mentioning "our" footy club, players, supporters, members etc. He's invested up to his eyeballs.

This. We never really got that from Worsfold, it’s like polar opposite. Makes you really wonder what kind of cluster**** 2020 was, between chalk and cheese running the place and all being cooped up in hubs.

 

[Jordanio]

How many successful coaching tenures have we had since Sheedy? Suggests it’s probably not the coach.

Maybe start with holding someone accountable for that, instead of yes, another scape goat so we can pretend he was the problem and continue to make the same stupid mistakes for another 20 years.

Yes totally agree
accountability:- the coach for coaching, Recruiter for recruiting, Trainer for Training/Fitness, Players for playing, CEO for successfully managing the process etc

 

[BomberManU]

I read in some posts saying Truck is being used as a scape goat.
Scape goat or accountable?

But are the people who are meant to be holding him accountable actually accountable themselves?

 

[BrunoV]

But are the people who are meant to be holding him accountable actually accountable themselves?

That's a separate issue.

Clear evidence of multiple things wrong at the same time.

Dodoro, Campbell and Rutten all need to go.

 

[DonsRule]

At this point we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place I’d prefer to stick with Rutten and make whatever other changes the review recommends. But with how we handled thinks I struggle to think we keep him too

 

[Phone]

But I think that's kinda the problem - if the Essendon job is inherently more difficult than any other AFL coaching job because of the club's makeup, that's more the reason why we can't do anything more than the person in post being unfit for the role.

Maybe we should toy with making the job as difficult as any of the other 17 gigs first, which is already a herculean task in its own right, rather than putting people in a position where they not only have to coach a football side, they have also navigate AND manage disparate factions, including ones that inherently don't think the person should have the job because of where he played or whatever, or because there's a club legend out there who needs to have round 2 at the gig even though the incumbent is contracted.

I dont necessarily think Rutten is the answer but I'm starting to think we don't know anything about anybody who has coached the club under these (grossly unprofessional) circumstances.

This goes back even to Knights given the posts Ant has made in the post

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Essendon wins:

1976: 9 wins, 10th, 88.2%
1977: 7 wins, 9th, 82.8%
1978: 8 wins, 10th, 94.3%
1979: 12 wins, 5th, 105.1%
1980: 10 wins, 7th, 105.4%

[a wild sheedy appears]

1981: 16 wins, 4th, 127.6%
1982: 16 wins, 4th, 125.4%
1983: 15 wins, 4th, 123.0% + Grand Final
1984: 18 wins, 1st, 128.2% + Premiership
1985: 19 wins, 1st, 138.4% + Premiership

Winning 16 games in your first 2 seasons, making a Granny in your 3rd, and winning two back to back flags kinda helps.

Sheedy could've been from Mars or a Flinders Ln alleyway and it wouldn't have mattered after seeing that turnaround.

I'm not saying coaches should never be from any other club, but I'm also saying using Sheedy as an example is a bit out of touch. I wasn't even alive at the time and even I can see the clear distinction he's in when it comes to the topic of gaining trust at a club in relation to origin.

Think it's more people just trying to look for ways to excuse bad habits and to find reasoning in backing someone in on sentiments rather than a sheer grasp on the job at hand. But it's gotta be both. More the latter, even if it hurts to admit. I think whoever coaches us - they must show signs. Signs are what gets you trust. Signs are what buys you patience. Signs are what keeps you for the long haul. Otherwise you better do a Sheedy - not just in not being from Essendon - but having a pretty quick and linear impact as well. The former seems more attainable/realistic, yet the most difficult to prove.

Sheedy took over a very strong young list, everyone knew it was a plum job. He did a great job no doubt and probably just what was needed but it was an exceptional list

 

[Jordanio]

Five heads on the board make a ****** move and the rest of the club and us supporters have to put up with the bs fallout including being an absolute laughing stock. Barham and Sheedy out

Sheedy took over a very strong young list, everyone knew it was a plum job. He did a great job no doubt and probably just what was needed but it was an exceptional list

Yes that lasted 27 years

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

We’re ****ed if Sheedy stays on the board and he’s only ever going to want to get Hird back. How can we say to any other prospective coach that he’ll have the board’s full support? Especially as Sheeds has Dodoro in his corner ….it’s a clash before new coach has even started

 

[BrunoV]

As a word of warning to opposition posters.

We are well, WELL aware of the horrible way Truck has been treated by those in charge at our club. The way he’s been hung out to dry is unfathomable, and I’d argue 99% of our supporters here are utterly miserable with how things are for our club right now.

Coming on here and gloating, telling us how *ed our club is, and trying to throw barbs will have you kicked out of here quick smart. We are supporters and fans, and we have no say at all with how our club is run. If we did, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Consider this the first and last warning.

Just to be clear, I'm not in this 1%.

I'm not sure there is 1% who think treating anyone with this lack of respect is okay.

 

[Lore]

At this point we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place I’d prefer to stick with Rutten and make whatever other changes the review recommends. But with how we handled thinks I struggle to think we keep him too

If we sack Rutten I doubt we’ll have good people applying for the job, and even if we did get someone half decent it would be really difficult to continue building this list this off-season for much the same reasons, meaning whoever takes the job is set for a shit season again next year and they’ll be under the pump again immediately thereafter. Total poison chalice.

If they wanted Rutten gone they should’ve gone for Clarkson earlier. Now they’ve just made a mess, and in the attempt have made us the most undesirable employer in the league.

 

[Im New]

He also kept being inclusive, mentioning "our" footy club, players, supporters, members etc. He's invested up to his eyeballs.

Also this week he was referring to “my players” quite a bit, which I hadn’t heard before. Obviously to indicate he hadn’t lost the group. If he does stay on I hope he continues down that path with real ownership and demanding higher standards from the whole club. Perhaps being walked over like he has been this week will make him more ruthless, it’s the only way I can see him moving forward from here.. Who knows if he will survive today though, wouldn’t surprise me if the board apologises and offers to provide him greater support.

 

[Jordanio]

If we sack Rutten I doubt we’ll have good people applying for the job, and even if we did get someone half decent it would be really difficult to continue building this list this off-season for much the same reasons, meaning whoever takes the job is set for a s**t season again next year and they’ll be under the pump again immediately thereafter. Total poison chalice.

If they wanted Rutten gone they should’ve gone for Clarkson earlier. Now they’ve just made a mess, and in the attempt have made us the most undesirable employer in the league.

I question the mindset of that sort of coaching applicant.
I would be selecting one with a more positive mind set. Essendon Has many positives that i would want to be working with (facilities, big games, large supporter base, good financials). This was a strength of Sheedy, focusing on the positives.
Yes we do need a proper review and stronger leadership at all levels

 

[Footy Smarts]

I hope you don't mind the intrusion but as an outsider I really don't understand why Rutten's position was ever under threat this year.

At the end of 2020 you got in a bunch of high draft picks and the consensus was there would be some short term pain in a rebuild. Last year your best players almost all had great seasons and you made finals with some kids showing plenty.

This year you had a much worse run with injuries. Stringer, Snelling, Langford and obviously AMT had a fraction of the impact of last year. You also lost the impact of senior role players like Hooker and Smith who could at least take some of the physical heat off the kids. A couple of your most promising kids in Cox and Jones miss most of the year too.

In the end you're putting out one of the youngest teams in the comp against one of the toughest draws. 7 wins and a percentage in the 80s isn't horrific given that. It's disappointing but not unexpected given the team you were playing. I think the idea that team would or should make finals is delusional. And you found a really good group of young players that look like they've got long term futures.

I understand the desire to get Clarkson. It's not every day a 4 time premiership coach is on the market. But now that he's out of the picture I don't see why Rutten wouldn't be given his final year and then see where things stand.

 

[revival_mode]

young list over performed last year, we were always taking a step back on the ladder this year. idiots/media at the start of the year pumped up unreasonable expectations, was always going to end in tears. having said that, the geelong opener and the last few games should not be happening at all to a coach that has already had a couple of years to work on galvanising a group. so i can see why he is being questioned totally.
i haven't actually watched many of our games this year for a few different reasons, so i cant really comment too much on the game plan or players being able to undertake it BUT its the perfect time for Rutten and co to reassess, move on some players that arent performing to his plan (even if they are performing stats wise) and look to really improve from here. we will find out if he's a good coach if he can adjust his game plan to suit the list currently, and work toward drafting/tading some more in the mold he wants. if not, well we will have drafted and brought in some new talent in this rebuild and really wont be any worse off. we are not contending.
**** Dodoro off, no funny buggers at the trade table, and just go straight for needs and pay a fair price

keep Rutten, back him in

 

[thepokey]

Yeah i'm all in on Rutten. Keep him on, do the external review and make the changes that need to be made. If you sack him now, like Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

52

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

suggested anyways, who the **** will want to come here? We won't get "the best available" we will get "the best of those who even want to apply". We need to prove that we are a footy club people want to come to. Right now we are not, and that's not the coach's fault. Truck seems invested and who knows, maybe this was a real scare that is gonna change things up for him - how he delivers a message, or how he will push back a bit against those above him ... it could be a Hardwick/Bomber moment, but we won't know if we sack him and start it all over again.

 

[foj1]

The “we need a hard as nails, prick coach!” thing is almost always misguided.

Supporters angry and want somebody who’ll take out that anger on the players.

No we have players who clearly pick and choose their level of effort
the coaches job is to change culture
he has had 3 years and looks like changing nothing
bland bloke equals assistant coach
i don’t like the way he was treated and we should have sacked him mid season like north did to noble
then we could get away with how rutten was treated and focus on his weaknesses
if we did this I suspect Clarkson would be in red and black
the issue was rutten was in charge at the hub. Massive fail
he had a good year in 2021 and this year an unmitigated disaster
I have no faith in him