Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[ant555]

Dunno, I thought we were pretty good under Hird and Bomber?

Except Bomber also said we needed to defend better as a team to take the next step.
Has been a common theme for 15 years.
Until it happens we will be the same.
We have the same issue now that we had in 2005.

 

[Lore]

Good points, didn't think about them stripping it back in 2 parts to concentrate on the defensive side first before the offence, instead of jumping straight into a Richmond style like Collingwood. Devil's advocate though, if that's the case, why has Essendon's tackling and defensive effort been so poor this year? You'd think he'd be absolutely hammering that into the team. Is it the players or is Rutten not capable of instilling this mindset? Could be both...despite our improvement under Voss we still haven't bee able to get Dow to do it...just doesn't seem to have it in him, whereas Hewett does.

It’s been improving over the course of the season, so I’d suggest they are hammering it, but why it started that way we don’t know. Total mystery.

I'm sure this has been discussed at length, that it's hard to judge Rutten with the list he has at his disposal.

Backs - Key posts a worry with injuries to Hurley and Stewart. Often playing Laverde as a key defender this year which he is not. Then Reid is only young. Last night Ridley played on Curnow and again, Ridley is better as a third intercepting tall. Not a lot of options for Rutten there. Then there's Heppell who isn't offering a whole lot.

Hurley is regarded as a forward. Stewart and Laverde are key posts.

Reid is playing because he’s effectively a first year player (second year really but he spent last year with illness and injury problems, only played one game), and he needs the experience. There’s a deliberate play the kids strategy going on there.

But it also helps him that Stewart is injured of course, he played his first VFL game back from injury the week before the bye.

Ridley is meant to be more off the leash but yeah. Match ups.

Midfield - Obviously lots of discussion about the small size of the midfield collective and poor defensive intent. Individually all good players, but arguably not the right mix when every single one is under 184cm. Does he have a Viney/Hewett/Libba type who love the hard stuff and applying defensive pressure? Is it on Rutten to instil this mindset? Beat us up at centre clearances.

There’s an entire thread on this and no real answers.

Every time the list manager finds us a big bodied mid we don’t play them, or play them out of position, or they turn out to be soft as play dough, or they can’t kick. Or sometimes they turn out to be key defenders

And then we have Shiel and Parish who play the same role, both have good hands in close, Shiel better burst speed but Parish better by foot. Parish with a corkie last night so you got more Shiel but usually they’re the other way around.

Merrett who is good in and out but his foot skills are top notch and he should be playing more outside to make better use of them.

McGrath should be halfback/wing and stoppages in that end of the ground. Groin injury hopefully back next week.

Caldwell is a smaller hard-nosed type with burst speed similar to Shiel, but injury prone with hamstring issues that will probably rob his pace if it hasn’t already. Boxing background not afraid of body contact.

Stringer is a CBA/forward (not onball) and provides the big body but he’s been injured a bit and when he comes back in it takes him a week or two to to blow out the cobwebs, by which time he’s injured again

Langford is a bigger body but he’s more of a winger/half forward, only goes inside when we need a run-with or a blocker.

Perkins is taller and should fill out but he’s a second year so not a first choice mid yet. Probably a mid/fwd eventually anyway.

Hobbs brand new but small, seems nuggety and willing to do the defensive stuff. Not first choice yet but he gets a few midfield minutes as does Perkins. Also does a bit up forward because technically he’s got a small forward spot while Snelling and Walla were out, which is not a bad thing for his versatility and ability to impact but yeah.

There’s still a piece missing. BrunoV thinks that piece is Patrick Voss.

Forwards - Heaps of injuries this year with Tippa/Snelling/Langford/Stringer/Jones missing most of the year. That's rough. List is also already lacking small crumbing forwards and could do with a big, strong key forward. Most teams would struggle with so many forwards out.

Yep. We pin our hopes on the Davey twins (draft eligible this year), Tex Wanganeen (SSP f/s) and Menzie (MSD pick). And maybe a smol Hird (cat B f/s).

For talls there are several weedy kids running around atm with Jones, Eyre, Baldwin, Voss, McBride (ruck) Brand (def) Reid (def) Cox (wing). Dunno which if any will make it as a key forward yet. Jones should fill out and has the tools if he doesn’t get too injured, but might be more of a third banana.

Some people want to bring another one in by trade/FA too, though FA is preferable given we have cap space and need our picks for the draft to fill the other holes. Dunno that there’s much really available this year though, a good one is usually hard to get.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Dunno, I thought we were pretty good under Hird and Bomber?

We were a middling side in 2013 and 2014, it probably just looked good compared to what came after.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I actually think we've made a few inroads on the defensive stuff over the last few months, what really stood out last night was our lack of spread when moving the ball. Even the commentary box was pointing out how most of the list was standing around like statues instead of trying to shift the carlton zone around. It's starting to come down to a work-rate issue. Even guys like Durham and Martin are starting to fit in with the rest of the team which is really not good.

 

[BrunoV]

It’s been improving over the course of the season, so I’d suggest they are hammering it, but why it started that way we don’t know. Total mystery.

Hurley is regarded as a forward. Stewart and Laverde are key posts.

Reid is playing because he’s effectively a first year player (second year really but he spent last year with illness and injury problems, only played one game), and he needs the experience. There’s a deliberate play the kids strategy going on there.

But it also helps him that Stewart is injured of course, he played his first VFL game back from injury the week before the bye.

Ridley is meant to be more off the leash but yeah. Match ups.

There’s an entire thread on this and no real answers.

Every time the list manager finds us a big bodied mid we don’t play them, or play them out of position, or they turn out to be soft as play dough, or they can’t kick. Or sometimes they turn out to be key defenders

And then we have Shiel and Parish who play the same role, both have good hands in close, Shiel better burst speed but Parish better by foot. Parish with a corkie last night so you got more Shiel but usually they’re the other way around.

Merrett who is good in and out but his foot skills are top notch and he should be playing more outside to make better use of them.

McGrath should be halfback/wing and stoppages in that end of the ground. Groin injury hopefully back next week.

Caldwell is a smaller hard-nosed type with burst speed similar to Shiel, but injury prone with hamstring issues that will probably rob his pace if it hasn’t already. Boxing background not afraid of body contact.

Stringer is a CBA/forward (not onball) and provides the big body but he’s been injured a bit and when he comes back in it takes him a week or two to to blow out the cobwebs, by which time he’s injured again

Langford is a bigger body but he’s more of a winger/half forward, only goes inside when we need a run-with or a blocker.

Perkins is taller and should fill out but he’s a second year so not a first choice mid yet. Probably a mid/fwd eventually anyway.

Hobbs brand new but small, seems nuggety and willing to do the defensive stuff. Not first choice yet but he gets a few midfield minutes as does Perkins. Also does a bit up forward because technically he’s got a small forward spot while Snelling and Walla were out, which is not a bad thing for his versatility and ability to impact but yeah.

There’s still a piece missing. BrunoV thinks that piece is Patrick Voss.

Yep. We pin our hopes on the Davey twins (draft eligible this year), Tex Wanganeen (SSP f/s) and Menzie (MSD pick). And maybe a smol Hird (cat B f/s).

For talls there are several weedy kids running around atm with Jones, Eyre, Baldwin, Voss, McBride (ruck) Brand (def) Reid (def) Cox (wing). Dunno which if any will make it as a key forward yet. Jones should fill out and has the tools if he doesn’t get too injured, but might be more of a third banana.

Some people want to bring another one in by trade/FA too, though FA is preferable given we have cap space and need our picks for the draft to fill the other holes. Dunno that there’s much really available this year though, a good one is usually hard to get.

Just quickly, I think there are about 6 pieces missing.

 

[chrisdon16]

We weren't good under Knights

We weren't good under Hird

We weren't good under Bomber

We weren't good under Worsfold

We aren't good under Rutten

Maybe it's not the coach?

Don't underestimate how much a good coach can make. Look at Carlton under Malthouse, Bolton, Teague. Now look at them. Completely different team

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Don't underestimate how much a good coach can make. Look at Carlton under Malthouse, Bolton, Teague. Now look at them. Completely different team

They’re better, but they’re not completely different. They look good and have a good run with injury this year, particularly with Cripps, like we did with Stringer last year. Also like us last year, they haven’t beaten any good sides.

 

[chrisdon16]

They’re better, but they’re not completely different. They look good and have a good run with injury this year, particularly with Cripps, like we did with Stringer last year. Also like us last year, they haven’t beaten any good sides.

It's pretty naive to say they're not a different team under Voss. New coach, new assistants, new game plan. The last few years their game plan has been non existent. All over the place. This year they look content with the ball. Defence looks safe. Forward line is dangerous.

Beaten Richmond, dogs, Sydney... But let's see how they go against Melbourne, Brisbane.

 

[foj1]

They’re better, but they’re not completely different. They look good and have a good run with injury this year, particularly with Cripps, like we did with Stringer last year. Also like us last year, they haven’t beaten any good sides.

This is not true
they beat us without their best defender and ruckman and a gun midfielder limping off early
they have a modern game plan and are evolving- we are not

 

[foj1]

We have not given up midfielders to other clubs so it is hard to say.
Daniher only has lead at the ball. Saad is doing what he always did. Same with Razz. Playing forward.
They where not really players bound tightly by game plan.

I reckon Daniher has been better at brisbane but the ball is delivered better and he is a happier person
saad has improved this year and doesn’t feel marginalised by his coach

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Our defensive area exerts so much energy trying to deflect the constant barrage of turnovers and easy passage ways that by the time they have the ball we aren't slingshotting it and getting it out with longer kicks because they're absolutely frightened it'll just be brought back with ease, a literal nightmare when you're overworked. They have no trust in our gameplan to stop that from happening. So what it results in is constant handballs, short kicks to what are barely uncontested marks along the defensive 50, just to buy enough time to recharge before the actual progress kick is taken and thereby preparing for the inevitable easy ball back. Rinse and repeat.

It’s actually a talent to use so many words, yet deliver the same message in every post.

I think it’s clear you don’t like Rutten and think we should move on. To what? I’m not sure you even know, but we get it.

 

[foj1]

https://www.essendonfc.com.au/video/1146921/rd-13-rutten-post-game?videoId=1146921&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1654870911001

our coach has the charisma of a turtle
he also needs some media training - you know
he is beginning to resemble a dead man walking
i thought his comments towards stringer were harsh when his captain is so poor each week

 

[windyhill]

Said this after round one, it’s a win loss buisness, if the L’s keep piling up......

 

[foj1]

It’s actually a talent to use so many words, yet deliver the same message in every post.

I think it’s clear you don’t like Rutten and think we should move on. To what? I’m not sure you even know, but we get it.

I reckon the anti rutten sentiments are 50 50 and rising
his Press conferences are insipid and he is struggling to sell the message which is understandable when uou are 2-10

 

[Mikevk123]

Are we allowed to say what we are all thinking here or not?

 

[gabbo32]

Are we allowed to say what we are all thinking here or not?

#bringbackhird?

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I reckon the anti rutten sentiments are 50 50 and rising
his Press conferences are insipid and he is struggling to sell the message which is understandable when uou are 2-10

When posts are questioning he demeanor, his lack of sprays towards players and in my opinion, just inventing problems because they want the coach gone, I feel the discussion around this is getting a little silly.

 

[Mikevk123]

#bringbackhird?

That entrance was spine tingling. The boys played for him, I said get him back as a senior assistant. Rutten needs to go though. Couldn’t inspire under 10’s same with Heppell.

 

[Lore]

That entrance was spine tingling. The boys played for him, I said get him back as a senior assistant. Rutten needs to go though. Couldn’t inspire under 10’s same with Heppell.

Do you think he talks to them like he talks to the media?

I mean if I was in his position I wouldn’t be giving the media a rev up either tbh

 

[Mikevk123]

Do you think he talks to them like he talks to the media?

I mean if I was in his position I wouldn’t be giving the media a rev up either tbh

No just in general. Look at how he talks to the players and inspires them. Nothing. He’s a good bloke and all but you don’t see much emotion. This includes the last two years as well, uninspiring.

Caracella shoulda been coach but Rutten was the tag alone if I recall.

 

[Lore]

No just in general. Look at how he talks to the players and inspires them. Nothing. He’s a good bloke and all but you don’t see much emotion. This includes the last two years as well, uninspiring.

Caracella shoulda been coach but Rutten was the tag alone if I recall.

Example please of him talking to the players (and not just the one with the 150th jumper the other day, if it is true there should be several examples to draw from).

 

[TheGrizz]

No just in general. Look at how he talks to the players and inspires them. Nothing. He’s a good bloke and all but you don’t see much emotion. This includes the last two years as well, uninspiring.

Caracella shoulda been coach but Rutten was the tag alone if I recall.

As a genuine question, what percentage of Truck talking to the ayers do you think we are actually privy to?

2% perhaps? 5% maybe? I would imagine not anywhere close to be making a call on how inspired the players are by his oration skills.

 

[Keystone agony]

Im not sure about Hird coming back to the club, certainly a no as coach

Yes the majority of fans seem to love him

But im not sure the players do. I know most if not all of the 34 are gone but im not sure how the rest would feel

Also couldnt see it working with Rutten still in charge would probably have to be Spike or Caracella

 

[BomberManU]

All the 'pro' Rutten posting is great, as I really like him and want him to succeed - but what evidence is there that he's the right man for the job? That he has the players on side? It's looking like a 2 - 20 season, which isn't going to help him (obviously).
I don't really care about W-L this year, but I'm really concerned that players we want as part of our future will leave to find success elsewhere.

 

[ghostdog]

I actually think we've made a few inroads on the defensive stuff over the last few months, what really stood out last night was our lack of spread when moving the ball. Even the commentary box was pointing out how most of the list was standing around like statues instead of trying to shift the carlton zone around. It's starting to come down to a work-rate issue. Even guys like Durham and Martin are starting to fit in with the rest of the team which is really not good.

As an example, Martin picked up.only 16 disposals. It gets shaded by his disposal which usually appears classy, but if we're spreading well I'd hope he's picking up disposals somewhere north of 20.