News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Section 5]

I doubt this will go ahead. The current 2700 million cost (sute to blow out)has to be funded 100% by Qlders. The LNP are yet to show their hand but the politics says with shaky support for the Project and massive pressures on Emergency and Ambulance services the LNP are highly likely to go with a revamp and additional spend on Health. The Election is Oct 24. Watch this space.

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The LNP know this will be good for the citys future.
They are just doing what the Lib/Nat have been doing for many years. That is being negative about anything.
If/when they get into power, they will say something like it is too late in the planning stage and we don't want to get international backlash over cancelling The Gabba project. Being sued by the successful tender etc etc.

However, the fact is The IOC have signed a binding contract with Queensland State Government, The BCC, The Australian Olympic Committee
They could go down the Victorian path and pay a compensation fine. That was $380 million for a much smaller Commonwealth Games.
The Olympic compensation would be much greater and a stupid thing to do anyhow.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Olympic-Games/Brisbane-2032/Host-Contract/Host-City-Contract-2032-Principles.pdf

.................................................................................

Too many people with agendas keep talking about the cost.
Those same people conveniently omit the income and i am not even talking about tourism.
Also, no mention of how it should change the city for the better as has been outlaid.
The Brisbane games is the first under a new IOC formula.
Most notable being 85% of the venues have to be already in place.
A very long lead in time of 11 years so budgets can be handled fairly well.
The contribution from the IOC pretty much covers The Gabba costs see below.
The remainder venues are 50/50 with the commonwealth.
.......................

7 CONTRIBUTION OF THE IOC TO THE SUCCESS OF THE GAMES
General principles applicable to the contribution of the IOC to the success of the Games

7.1 In consideration of the Hosts, the Host NOC and the OCOG performing and complying with all their obligations under the OHC, and in order to assist them in the planning, organising, financing and staging of the Games, the IOC shall:
a. make the contributions and grant the OCOG the benefits and rights further described in §8.1(e), §9, §11 and §12
(b), representing an overall estimated value of USD 1.800.000.000 (one billion, eight hundred million United States dollars);
.........
10. Right to retain a share of the surplus resulting from the celebration of the Games

As further detailed in the “OHC – Operational Requirements – Finance”, any surplus resulting from the planning, organising, financing and staging of the Games shall be divided as follows:

a. twenty percent (20%) to the Host NOC;
............
5. Pre-election Commitments and other commitments made by Host Country Authorities

5.1 All Pre-election Commitments shall continue in effect after the election and be binding upon the Hosts, the Host NOC and the OCOG. The Hosts, the Host NOC and the OCOG are responsible to ensure that all Pre-election Commitments remain in effect until the completion of the Games and, where relevant, until the completion of the Paralympic Games, or for so long thereafter as required pursuant to the OHC or the Olympic Charter, without prejudice to any other obligations that may exist between the Parties.
5.2 The Hosts, the Host NOC and the OCOG are further responsible to ensure that:

a. all Host Country Authorities and relevant third parties honour and enforce all Pre-election Commitments and all other commitments, guarantees and obligations they have undertaken in relation to the Games and, where applicable, to the Paralympic Games; and

b. all cities, regions or other third parties that are hosting events of the Games and/or of the Paralympic Games, perform and comply with the terms of the OHC and carry out their obligations related thereto under the supervision of the OCOG.
.........................

 

[rye]

id be pretty pissed off as a queenslander if the lnp tried to use this as a wedge issue

'we need to spend more on (issue) so we are scrapping an infrastructure project' basically always translates to the infrastructure project being canned, no more money being provided towards health / policing / public housing / whatever and the windfall from the cancelled project will be squandered on tax cuts for the boys

 

[Section 5]

The issue is no State or Federal Government would be spending this type of additional money in excess of their normal budgets.
In health you probably get better health outcomes but no income to pay for the expense.
Same for affordable housing and any other vote worthy policy you can throw in the ring.

This Government money would never have been put on the table if Brisbane did not get the Olympic Games approval.

The City now gets a chance to improve facilities and hopefully come out with a profit.
The Government will get 20% of any games profit. That is separate to the $2.739 billion (US $1.8 billion) the IOC has pledged.

 

[mighty_lions]

Will go ahead as 500 million or so refurb.Games will go ahead of course. Leftover 2200 million spent on Health. Politics (and common sense)will prevail.

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its like talking to a brick wall, todays announcement is basically confirming it, your saying 500mill refurb, there's no option of that, the cost of a "refurb" will not be "500mill"

 

[mighty_lions]

Are you the real mighty lions?

I was the first! I do agree with most of the things he says so has anyone seen us in the same room???

 

[jumbojet]

Spending BIG on redevelopment spending small on relocation !

 

[M Malice]

Cycled past the Gabba around 10am and there was what looked like a demonstration and/or announcement going on in Lion Park, about 150-200 people there including media and a dozen or so police.

I didn't stop to have a gawk but there were a few placards that I would assume were the local NIMBY's.

 

[Dalions]

Cycled past the Gabba around 10am and there was what looked like a demonstration and/or announcement going on in Lion Park, about 150-200 people there including media and a dozen or so police.

I didn't stop to have a gawk but there were a few placards that I would assume were the local NIMBY's.

200 people is gonna stop it!
Probably parents of the kids at the School.

 

[Section 5]

Cycled past the Gabba around 10am and there was what looked like a demonstration and/or announcement going on in Lion Park, about 150-200 people there including media and a dozen or so police.

I didn't stop to have a gawk but there were a few placards that I would assume were the local NIMBY's.

It was planned a few weeks ago just a coincidence it was 1 day after the announcement.

The protest was about the school closing down.
They want to stay in some very old buildings with basically no playground.

I have not been inside the schoolrooms but i doubt they will reach the standard of new buildings at the Coorparoo location.
The students will most likely be better off education and health wise at the new location.

 

[mighty_lions]

Cycled past the Gabba around 10am and there was what looked like a demonstration and/or announcement going on in Lion Park, about 150-200 people there including media and a dozen or so police.

I didn't stop to have a gawk but there were a few placards that I would assume were the local NIMBY's.

the greens neo nazis are there

 

[Tassie4ever]

200 people is gonna stop it!
Probably parents of the kids at the School.

Greens!!!!!

Say no more.

 

[wantok]

its like talking to a brick wall, todays announcement is basically confirming it, your saying 500mill refurb, there's no option of that, the cost of a "refurb" will not be "500mill"

Watch this space.
I believe this will be a major issue in next year's Qld election.The glossy announcement coincidentally falls immediately after the avoidable death of a Grandfather due to Ambulance ramping. Impeccable timing and management of the media cycle from a Govt facing potential defeat next October.Add this week's 350 mill bribe to Public Servants and you see the process in action.
While the Games themselves may have popular support this expenditure plus the disposable Swimming Centre at Roma St will come under intense scrutiny in an Election fought during a Cost of Living crisis.
The Economy will likely tank in the early New Year after the Xmas sugar hit. February and March are the toughest months in any Retail,Manufacturing and Hospitality business.Next Year will be exacerbated by Reserve Bank interest rate rises. Unemployment will rise.Expenditure and Money management will be top of mind. The bribe to the Public Servants and this announcement is just the start of the Election campaign.
Labor will need to sell this Olympics expenditure to the whole State and the intense scrutiny of the Election camoaign has not yet begun
So buckle up. It's not over yet.

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[M Malice]

Watch this space.
I believe this will be a major issue in next year's Qld election.The glossy announcement coincidentally falls immediately after the avoidable death of a Grandfather due to Ambulance ramping. Impeccable timing and management of the media cycle from a Govt facing potential defeat next October.Add this week's 350 mill bribe to Public Servants and you see the process in action.
While the Games themselves may have popular support this expenditure plus the disposable Swimming Centre at Roma St will come under intense scrutiny in an Election fought during a Cost of Living crisis.
The Economy will likely tank in the early New Year after the Xmas sugar hit. February and March are the toughest months in any Retail,Manufacturing and Hospitality business.Next Year will be exacerbated by Reserve Bank interest rate rises. Unemployment will rise.Expenditure and Money management will be top of mind. The bribe to the Public Servants and this announcement is just the start of the Election campaign.
Labor will need to sell this Olympics expenditure to the whole State and the intense scrutiny of the Election camoaign has not yet begun
So buckle up. It's not over yet.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sounds like I should be stocking up on physical gold, servicing the 4WD and arranging a bugout shelter.

 

[Section 5]

Watch this space.
I believe this will be a major issue in next year's Qld election.The glossy announcement coincidentally falls immediately after the avoidable death of a Grandfather due to Ambulance ramping. Impeccable timing and management of the media cycle from a Govt facing potential defeat next October.Add this week's 350 mill bribe to Public Servants and you see the process in action.
While the Games themselves may have popular support this expenditure plus the disposable Swimming Centre at Roma St will come under intense scrutiny in an Election fought during a Cost of Living crisis.
The Economy will likely tank in the early New Year after the Xmas sugar hit. February and March are the toughest months in any Retail,Manufacturing and Hospitality business.Next Year will be exacerbated by Reserve Bank interest rate rises. Unemployment will rise.Expenditure and Money management will be top of mind. The bribe to the Public Servants and this announcement is just the start of the Election campaign.
Labor will need to sell this Olympics expenditure to the whole State and the intense scrutiny of the Election camoaign has not yet begun
So buckle up. It's not over yet.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

So, cancelling the games and paying compensation upwards of $380 million (Vic Gov compensation) Olympics likely double that amount.
That should help all the things you have mentioned.
Binding contracts have been signed so it is done and dusted now.

I agree it may become an election issue but that's politics not what is good for the city.
As i have mentioned before the LNP will not cancel the contract.
But they will do and say anything regarding the Olympics leading up to the election to get votes from the uniformed.
And they will get them to as a lot of people fall into this category.

 

[wantok]

So, cancelling the games and paying compensation upwards of $380 million (Vic Gov compensation) Olympics likely double that amount.
That should help all the things you have mentioned.
Binding contracts have been signed so it is done and dusted now.

I agree it may become an election issue but that's politics not what is good for the city.
As i have mentioned before the LNP will not cancel the contract.
But they will do and say anything regarding the Olympics leading up to the election to get votes from the uniformed.
And they will get them to as a lot of people fall into this category.

No one has mentioned cancelling the Games.They will go ahead with a refurbed Gabba with improved Station/Public acces and amenities. Possibly Swimming at Chandler but the grossly expensive Gabba destruction will be seriously challenged and is no sure thing.

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[The Flying Belgian]

No one has mentioned cancelling the Games.They will go ahead with a refurbed Gabba with improved Station/Public acces and amenities. Possibly Swimming at Chandler but the grossly expensive Gabba destruction will be seriously challenged and is no sure thing.

Wasn't the deal with the fed government that they would be paying for Brisbane Live?

And as i feel you've been told quite a few times, a refurbed Gabba won't get close to the configuration (arena size and capacity) required by the IOC for a main stadium. I love to hear from you how you think it would be achieved, considering a standard athletics track requires ~175m in length.

 

[Section 5]

Wasn't the deal with the fed government that they would be paying for Brisbane Live?

And as i feel you've been told quite a few times, a refurbed Gabba won't get close to the configuration (arena size and capacity) required by the IOC for a main stadium. I love to hear from you how you think it would be achieved, considering a standard athletics track requires ~175m in length.

Pretty much correct regarding Brisbane Live
The way i read it (link below) is any budget blowouts for the Gabba is the State Governments problem.
And "possibly" anything over $2.5 billion for the Roma Street Brisbane Live venue is also funded by the State government.

The remaining 1 billion of fed money will be matched by the State and most likely some councils contribute to the states share.

Gabba rebuild's $1.7b cost blowout confirmed as plans for more Brisbane Olympics venues revealed

The Queensland and federal governments have reached a $7 billion funding agreement for an overhaul of Brisbane's sporting and event venues ahead of the 2032 Olympics, including rebuilding the Gabba.

www.abc.net.au

 

[wantok]

Wasn't the deal with the fed government that they would be paying for Brisbane Live?

And as i feel you've been told quite a few times, a refurbed Gabba won't get close to the configuration (arena size and capacity) required by the IOC for a main stadium. I love to hear from you how you think it would be achieved, considering a standard athletics track requires ~175m in length.

The Gabba grassed area is 170.6 m long. Width at 149.5 is not an issue. It would be quite feasible to remove lower level seating at each end to lengthen the area.The lost seating could be replaced and possibly increased by a building a temporary stand on the Southern side following the angle pitch of the existing first level out to the trackside. The track would need to be aligned close to the Northern Stand.
This is one idea for a possible solution. I'm sure the creative types can do better eg. Sydney used movable stands.
The budget for this ..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air like the original budget for this folly.
Things can and do change. 2 years ago we didn't know we needed the Olympics and all this angst.
So yeah as you say I've been told. Doesn't mean I have to stand by and accept what I and many others perceive to be a massive waste of Taxpayers money.

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[M Malice]

The Gabba grassed area is 170.6 m long. Width at 149.5 is not an issue. It would be quite feasible to remove lower level seating at each end to lengthen the area.The lost seating could be replaced and possibly increased by a building a temporary stand on the Southern side following the angle pitch of the existing first level out to the trackside. The track would need to be aligned close to the Northern Stand.
This is one idea for a possible solution. I'm sure the creative types can do better eg. Sydney used movable stands.
The budget for this ..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air like the original budget for this folly.
Things can and do change. 2 years ago we didn't know we needed the Olympics and all this angst.
So yeah as you say I've been told. Doesn't mean I have to stand by and accept what I and many others perceive to be a massive waste of Taxpayers money.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Backers of the 2032 Olympics confirm Brisbane stadium will be demolished and rebuilt for the games

“That project validation report assessed four possible options for the Gabba and identified that a demolition and rebuild provided the best possible outcome, the best value outcome for the city,” Miles said. “It will be a well connected stadium but most importantly, it will trigger the urban renewal that we want to see ... it will be one of the best parts of the city to live in.”

Sensitive to suggestions that hosting an Olympics adds to taxpayer costs, the IOC noted Friday the Gabba plan is a “Queensland government-led initiative” not dependent on the games.

“Throughout the Brisbane 2032 candidature process,” the Olympic body said in a statement, “the IOC was advised that no venue would be built or renovated specifically for the games — any construction or upgrading would be planned and delivered irrespective of the games to meet the needs of a fast-growing region and population.”

 

[briztoon]

So, cancelling the games and paying compensation upwards of $380 million (Vic Gov compensation) Olympics likely double that amount.
That should help all the things you have mentioned.
Binding contracts have been signed so it is done and dusted now.

I agree it may become an election issue but that's politics not what is good for the city.
As i have mentioned before the LNP will not cancel the contract.
But they will do and say anything regarding the Olympics leading up to the election to get votes from the uniformed.
And they will get them to as a lot of people fall into this category.

Conservative figure A$3billion based on the Tokyo Olympics.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

The Gabba grassed area is 170.6 m long. Width at 149.5 is not an issue. It would be quite feasible to remove lower level seating at each end to lengthen the area.The lost seating could be replaced and possibly increased by a building a temporary stand on the Southern side following the angle pitch of the existing first level out to the trackside. The track would need to be aligned close to the Northern Stand.
This is one idea for a possible solution. I'm sure the creative types can do better eg. Sydney used movable stands.
The budget for this ..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air like the original budget for this folly.
Things can and do change. 2 years ago we didn't know we needed the Olympics and all this angst.
So yeah as you say I've been told. Doesn't mean I have to stand by and accept what I and many others perceive to be a massive waste of Taxpayers money.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

So that's ~175m for the track alone. Then there's a security/infrastructure/safety buffer around the outside which is conservatively 5m, adding another 10m onto the distance needed. So you've taken out a decent chunk of seating, maybe 2000-3000, maybe even more. I look forward to hearing further about the magic wand that will be waved to add another 15K seats to get the stadium to 50K capacity.

 

[Section 5]

The Gabba grassed area is 170.6 m long. Width at 149.5 is not an issue. It would be quite feasible to remove lower level seating at each end to lengthen the area.The lost seating could be replaced and possibly increased by a building a temporary stand on the Southern side following the angle pitch of the existing first level out to the trackside. The track would need to be aligned close to the Northern Stand.
This is one idea for a possible solution. I'm sure the creative types can do better eg. Sydney used movable stands.
The budget for this ..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air like the original budget for this folly.
Things can and do change. 2 years ago we didn't know we needed the Olympics and all this angst.
So yeah as you say I've been told. Doesn't mean I have to stand by and accept what I and many others perceive to be a massive waste of Taxpayers money.

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

A few of your posts have been about the "expenditure", "spend", "waste of taxpayers' money", but nothing about the revenue side of the equation.
You can't just push one side but not the other.

One post was "Will go ahead as 500 million or so refurb".
Now you propose fixing up the athletic track "..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air"
So, we are up to $1.5 billion to end up like the Sydney Olympic's venue that "used removable stands"
The report had 4 options i assume you read the 4 which included renovations.

I understand these amounts are just guessing on your part to show it may be able to be done cheaper.
But you do need to allow for the revenue side of things to see if the expenditure is worth the risk/benefit.

Also remember if no Olympics that additional $7 billion will not go towards Hospitals and other worthy projects as there is no revenue to balance the expenditure. Unless you raise additional taxes.
The usual yearly increases to these sectors will of course continue.
................

Hospital ramping, cost of living, Public Servants getting a pay rise, economy tanking, interest rate rises are all political issues but, in my opinion, has very little to do with the Olympic Games total spend over 11/12 years.
The Olympics will become an issue next State election as the LNP will make it one, along with all other ills it perceives in the State.
Thats just what oppositions do no matter which party.

One of the huge benefits Brisbane has over previous cities is a very long lead in time.
Going on the total spend of the mentioned $7 billion ($3.5 billion x 2) over say just 10 years.
Thats $350 million allocated to budget each year for both the State and Federal governments. That should be easily manageable.
It won't be done that way as that is just a simple equation to show it is not going to break the bank so to speak.

The lead in construction period will create more jobs for workers.
Any Political Party will tell you that alone has a knock-on effect for the economy. We hear this all the time.
Be that correct or not they all agree that it does.
During and after the event will boost tourism. Once again, all political parties say a boost to tourism is a big boost to the economy.
Be that correct or not they all agree that it does.
The guaranteed AU $3.7 billion from the IOC. That could be more as they used this figure in anticipating all sorts of revenue using some sort of algorithm for ticket sales, international and domestic media rights and a lot of other things mentioned in the contract.

When the Olympics is over you have much better revenue from the two big projects, The Gabba and Brisbane Live for 20+ years.
The Woolloongabba precinct should benefit financially for years to come.
Not only Brisbane city benefits, so does the Gold and Sunshine Coast and to a lesser extent Toowoomba and other minor Queensland towns. Tourism, possibly venue hire but not ticket sales & media.
Then you have football in Sydney and Melbourne so they will benefit (tourism, possibly venue hire but not ticket sales and media) also without any renovations. Cricket will most likely be added to the games for 2032. So, more revenue for those lucky enough to get the big games.
A dollar value can't be placed on this type of benefit, but Governments and Political Parties usually come up with some figure.
Divide it by 2 and you might get closer to the value but who would know. Still, it is an income benefit of some value.
.................

Having said all that staging the Olympics always comes with some risk.
Another virus outbreak, stock market crash, more world conflict, games boycotts, terrorism acts, climate change.
I am sure other BF posters could add to the list.

 

[Grasshopper17]

So that's ~175m for the track alone. Then there's a security/infrastructure/safety buffer around the outside which is conservatively 5m, adding another 10m onto the distance needed. So you've taken out a decent chunk of seating, maybe 2000-3000, maybe even more. I look forward to hearing further about the magic wand that will be waved to add another 15K seats to get the stadium to 50K capacity.

I reckon we're massively overthinking this. Let's just make the track 94m. Hey it worked at Sydney 2000.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I reckon we're massively overthinking this. Let's just make the track 94m. Hey it worked at Sydney 2000.

Kevin Nowra has my full support.

 

[wantok]

A few of your posts have been about the "expenditure", "spend", "waste of taxpayers' money", but nothing about the revenue side of the equation.
You can't just push one side but not the other.

One post was "Will go ahead as 500 million or so refurb".
Now you propose fixing up the athletic track "..who knows maybe l 1 Billion plucked from the air"
So, we are up to $1.5 billion to end up like the Sydney Olympic's venue that "used removable stands"
The report had 4 options i assume you read the 4 which included renovations.

I understand these amounts are just guessing on your part to show it may be able to be done cheaper.
But you do need to allow for the revenue side of things to see if the expenditure is worth the risk/benefit.

Also remember if no Olympics that additional $7 billion will not go towards Hospitals and other worthy projects as there is no revenue to balance the expenditure. Unless you raise additional taxes.
The usual yearly increases to these sectors will of course continue.
................

Hospital ramping, cost of living, Public Servants getting a pay rise, economy tanking, interest rate rises are all political issues but, in my opinion, has very little to do with the Olympic Games total spend over 11/12 years.
The Olympics will become an issue next State election as the LNP will make it one, along with all other ills it perceives in the State.
Thats just what oppositions do no matter which party.

One of the huge benefits Brisbane has over previous cities is a very long lead in time.
Going on the total spend of the mentioned $7 billion ($3.5 billion x 2) over say just 10 years.
Thats $350 million allocated to budget each year for both the State and Federal governments. That should be easily manageable.
It won't be done that way as that is just a simple equation to show it is not going to break the bank so to speak.

The lead in construction period will create more jobs for workers.
Any Political Party will tell you that alone has a knock-on effect for the economy. We hear this all the time.
Be that correct or not they all agree that it does.
During and after the event will boost tourism. Once again, all political parties say a boost to tourism is a big boost to the economy.
Be that correct or not they all agree that it does.
The guaranteed AU $3.7 billion from the IOC. That could be more as they used this figure in anticipating all sorts of revenue using some sort of algorithm for ticket sales, international and domestic media rights and a lot of other things mentioned in the contract.

When the Olympics is over you have much better revenue from the two big projects, The Gabba and Brisbane Live for 20+ years.
The Woolloongabba precinct should benefit financially for years to come.
Not only Brisbane city benefits, so does the Gold and Sunshine Coast and to a lesser extent Toowoomba and other minor Queensland towns. Tourism, possibly venue hire but not ticket sales & media.
Then you have football in Sydney and Melbourne so they will benefit (tourism, possibly venue hire but not ticket sales and media) also without any renovations. Cricket will most likely be added to the games for 2032. So, more revenue for those lucky enough to get the big games.
A dollar value can't be placed on this type of benefit, but Governments and Political Parties usually come up with some figure.
Divide it by 2 and you might get closer to the value but who would know. Still, it is an income benefit of some value.
.................

Having said all that staging the Olympics always comes with some risk.
Another virus outbreak, stock market crash, more world conflict, games boycotts, terrorism acts, climate change.
I am sure other BF posters could add to the list.

No one is proposing cancelling the Games. They will be good for the State if the expenditure can be managed.The revenue will be there but remember only net revenue will be beneficial. Spend by Qlders on tickets is not net revenue . Its money reallocated from other entertainment. Ongoing interest on debt needs to be also calculated and deducted.The value of promotion of the Qld is a positive that's difficult to assess. The debate is about the wasteful demolition then rebuild of the Gabba and the massive hit on the Lions revenue and membership for 4 to 5 years.
Unless compensation for this disruption is calculated and paid. Unless viable alternative venues acceptable to the membership are identified and constructed the future success of the Club is doubtful.
If the Gabba has to be the Track and Field venue and if it can be made work by removing lower level seating at each end and constructing a temporary stand the length of the Southern Stand by continuing the first elevated level out onto the current grass combined with a revamp and new access from the Station it might just work and limit disruption to a year or 2.
As a long term Member I am invested in what is the best solution for the Clubs future. As a Queenslander I am interested in staging the best games that we can afford.
That's it from me.

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