News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[brutus76]

Might be a stupid question but what's the point of the GABBA cross river rail station if we go to Vic Park? Won't that be a total waste? There's not that much around there when the footy isn't on and that will reduce further if we move out of the area as well.

They build a 15k-20k Rod Laver type arena for basketball, netball, concerts as travelling to and getting in and out of Boondall is horrible then sell off the excess land for property developers.

Would see regular use

 

[Section 5]

They build a 15k-20k Rod Laver type arena for basketball, netball, concerts as travelling to and getting in and out of Boondall is horrible then sell off the excess land for property developers.

Would see regular use

Easy enough to do both.
Brisbane Arena over the CRR site before Olympics
Pull down The Gabba after the Olympics and use it for just about anything that is "the in thing" in 2032.
We will have a better idea in around 7/8 weeks' time.

 

[Perrip]

This is the latest post by Save Victoria Park. Suggesting to their followers that it'll be a 1:1 build of Optus Stadium, is nonsensical.


u/Apeonabicycle on r/brisbane thread

It’s not really a 1:1 comparison though.
Active Use Area includes: - Stadium: not in any preferred location I have seen proposed or discussed - bus transfer station: Use existing Herston Busway - hospitality facilities: Existing clubhouse (plus facilities at neighbouring Exhibition Grounds, Spring Hill and Fortitude Valley) - pedestrian circulation concourses: fair criticism - supporting parking: Vic park already has parking, and the current master plan suggests expanding it. Personally I would like it shrunk to maximise public transport access, stadium or not. - landscaping features: Vic Park is literally a giant landscaping feature.
Vic Park has a lot of complex challenges and would need incredibly strict conditions on design to ensure the claims for an increase in greenspace actually yielded those results. But it could be achieved if the driving range was revegetated, the surface carparks aren’t expanded, and the ICB actually got covered with a land bridge. But cost would likely be eye watering.
Gabba location is great but the land parcel simply doesn’t allow a Stadium of sufficient magnitude. Particularly when you consider Brisbanes projected population. All other discussion points are moot. The site simply doesn’t have the required dimensions.
Since Gabba doesn’t physically work and Vic Park seems to be too unpalatable for a large portion of the community a novel inner suburbs option might be necessary. Something like Albion Park Paceway. But that would need major flood mitigation and some significant transport and accessibility upgrades. Doomben line is too shit and circuitous to make Hamilton a viable option even if the line was extended. Hamilton might have been great if we had built a variant on the Brisbane Subway proposal from Connecting SEQ 2031 with a line down the axis of the river. But we didn’t build that so Hamilton is also a pure fiction to achieve for 2032.
Personally I think Vic Park is a bad option, but the least bad location of the current candidates. The current Brisbane Bold proposal has way too much impact on the park and any actual design would need to have virtually nothing in common other than the stadium capacity.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeah I don't think they'll care about the ex labor ones but not sure what Campbell Newman is doing there, he'll no doubt be reigned in if the libs wanna go that way. The whole thing is so ridiculous there is a tonne of space there.

Newman left the LNP long ago and joined the Liberal Democrats (now the Libertarians).
And if you feel those names are awfully close to the Liberals, yes, that's the point, they leech votes from the Liberals by preying on people's confusion. The Democratic Labour Party similarly leeches votes from Labor.

So there's no one to rein Newman in really.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This is the latest post by Save Victoria Park. Suggesting to their followers that it'll be a 1:1 build of Optus Stadium, is nonsensical.

Their MS Paint skills are elite.

 

[Nunez]

Their MS Paint skills are elite.

Rumour has it they're going to use campaign funds for a Canva subscription. We're ****ed!

 

[Hollow Knight]

Random aside... The massive increase in use of the term "activation" in a property development and/or events management context really turns my stomach for some reason.

Pretentious corpospeak at its finest. Anyone using it unironically is getting the side-eye from me.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Random aside... The massive increase in use of the term "activation" in a property development and/or events management context really turns my stomach for some reason.

Pretentious corpospeak at its finest. Anyone using it unironically is getting the side-eye from me.

It did originally have a genuine meaning in street design, i.e. adding things that draw people there like shade and benches and corner shops. But yes the corporates have turned it into a meaningless buzzword now.

 

[Jivlain]

Random aside... The massive increase in use of the term "activation" in a property development and/or events management context really turns my stomach for some reason.

Pretentious corpospeak at its finest. Anyone using it unironically is getting the side-eye from me.

There are several things which might get "activated". New developments in the Metaverse, those are definitely activations.

Couple years back, motivated by a podcast, I went down to Lun dun to experience the Marble Arch Mound the weekend before it closed. That was absolutely an activation, it was activating all sorts of things. Cynicism, psychic horror, things of these natures.


(truly, the picture undersells how much scaffolding was a part of the experience)

 

[dlanod]

Random aside... The massive increase in use of the term "activation" in a property development and/or events management context really turns my stomach for some reason.

Pretentious corpospeak at its finest. Anyone using it unironically is getting the side-eye from me.

Yep. They love it at GWS games. Everything's an activation. The first few times it's like "what's that?", then "I get why they'd use that term to corporate sponsors but why is it leaking into the fan area?" to now it just feels like it's undermining any pretense of non-profit maximisation by clubs - "hey, you're the product, pay attention to this!"

 

[The Flying Belgian]

It did originally have a genuine meaning in street design, i.e. adding things that draw people there like shade and benches and corner shops. But yes the corporates have turned it into a meaningless buzzword now.

Yep, I did first-year town planning eons ago and it was used back then.

I have used it talking about Victoria Park, for lack of a better term. So, Hollow Knight .....

 

[Perrip]

Residents join Greens in opposing Roma Street arena - Cameron Atfield

While the campaign to protect Victoria Park from new Olympic venues has been front and centre of late, another grassroots group has its eye on protecting another piece of prime inner-city green space.
The Protect Roma Street Parkland committee has submitted its objection to the proposed Brisbane Arena being built on the site to the Crisafulli government’s 100-day review into Olympic infrastructure for the 2032 Games.
And they have the support of the Greens in opposing any encroachment of the parklands.
Former lord mayor Graham Quirk’s 2024 review found the original proposal to build the arena above the railway tracks at Roma Street would have cost up to $4 billion and prevented trains running through the station for two years.
The review recommended a new location in the north-west corner of the parkland, near the Normanby five-ways, as a cheaper and more easily deliverable option.
That has not gone down well with residents, who have submitted their concerns about parkland amenity and the views from their tower unit blocks.
“We must stress that we do not object to development on the Parkland site of an appropriate nature as proposed in various existing planning documents,” they write in their submission.
The Protect Roma Street Parkland committee's submission to the 100-day review
“We do object to the hastily chosen, high-impact and massive development that would be Brisbane Arena unless it can be demonstrated that our concerns are groundless.”
____
So what are those concerns?
While supportive of an inner-city arena, Protect Roma Street Parkland argues the proposed location would have “major negative impacts on the environment, community amenity, and local infrastructure”.
One of those impacts was the need for a new “universal access pathway,” identified in the Quirk review, needed to get people safely to and from the arena.
“If this universal access path approach is implemented, the park will be effectively cut in two and mean a major loss of park at both ends for new routes and vertical transportation,” Protect Roma Street Parkland says.
“Presumably multiple new escalators and lifts of much greater capacity will be required adjacent to the Roma Street Station exit with the loss of the Carriage Shed.
“There will be a major negative impact on the form of the park with loss of significant trees, well established vegetation, disruption of flora etc.”
They also expressed concerns for their safety.
“Unless Parkland Boulevard is quarantined by diverting pedestrian traffic around the Parklands complex, the security and safety of Parkland residents, their homes and property will face an increased risk of crime when pedestrians trespass into basement carparks and apartment buildings,” they said.
And there was the visual impact too, as Protect Roma Street Parkland notes most units would overlook the arena.
“Being able to see a building superstructure is not an issue in itself as all parties would have expected development on that site at some stage in the future,” they say in their submission.
“Purchasers since 2021 would be expecting development in accordance with the [Cross River Rail Priority Development Area] 2021, with earlier purchasers expecting development in accordance with the Brisbane City Plan current at the time of purchase.
“However, none of these plans contemplated a development of the bulk and scale of the proposed Brisbane Arena.”
____
The submission makes the case for protecting green space, while paradoxically suggesting Victoria Park as one of several alternative sites.
Opponents of a proposed main Olympic stadium at Victoria Park have expressed similar misgivings about the potential loss of green space there.
“We are aware of the proposals to site various venues on the Victoria Park and Hamilton,” Protect Roma Street Parkland notes.
“Again, while this is a sensitive community issue, both these sites would seem to present a much easier, cheaper and less intrusive build than the Parkland site.”
They argue the original Brisbane Live proposal over the railway tracks had “enormous advantages over the proposed Roma Street Parklands site,” and also backed an arena for the Gabba.
“We are highly supportive of the submission which we believe is being put forward by Dykman Consulting which proposes Brisbane Arena placed at the Gabba should a new stadium be built at Victoria Park or elsewhere,” Protect Roma Street Parkland says.
“Intuitively, we think that if a new AFL/cricket stadium were built, there should be time to transfer those events to the new stadium and commence work on day one after the transfer to construct an arena using modern construction methods on the Gabba site.
“This would also preserve East Brisbane State School which could remain on its existing site.”
They were also supportive of Hayes Anderson Lynch Architects’ proposal for an arena to be built opposite the Gabba, alongside Woolloongabba’s new Cross River Rail station.
____
Protect Roma Street Parkland claims to represent more than 1000 local residents and about 2100 e-petition signatories alarmed at “the lack of community consultation and the fast-tracking of the Brisbane Arena proposal without adequate consideration of its impact”.
“We are not opposed to appropriate development, but the decision to place a 17,000-seat arena adjacent to Roma Street Parklands has been rushed and overlooks major risks to the community, the environment, and park users,” committee spokesman Ross Beames said.
“The Parklands is a cherished green space in Brisbane, used by millions of visitors each year. It deserves proper protection and planning.”
Another committee member, Jody Stehbens, said the group was concerned the Roma Street arena was a “done deal” without proper consideration of the costs of possible alternative sites.
“The local and broader Brisbane community should have a voice in shaping a development of this scale, particularly one that could fundamentally change such an important green space,” she said.
____
The Protect Roma Street Parkland groups has found some political support in the form of the Greens.
In a joint submission to the review, elected Greens Stephen Bates (federal MP for Brisbane), Queensland Senator Larissa Waters and Paddington councillor Seal Chong Wah say the parklands should be preserved.
“Roma Street Parklands is the backyard for Brisbane City’s residents, who almost all live in apartments,” they said.
“Many object to the proposed loss of public green space and award-winning facilities to build the Brisbane Arena venue, and the $2.5 billion budget that is now expected to run over by another $500 million.
The Greens' submission to the 100-day review
“They are also angry about the lack of transparency and consultation throughout the planning process so far.”
The Greens also objected to plans to build the main Olympic stadium at Victoria Park.
“The open green space, mature vegetation, and wildlife at Barrambin/Victoria Park, once lost, cannot be replaced,” they say.
“Victoria Park/Barrambin is the closest park and greenspace for many residents of high density suburbs including Kelvin Grove, Spring Hill, Bowen Hills and Fortitude Valley, most of whom live in high-rise apartment buildings.
“...It is in complete contradiction with the Games’ required new norms; it would be a new stadium and is estimated to cost at least $3.4 billion making it one of the most expensive in the world.”
The Greens did not offer alternative sites for major Olympic venues, but did single out one minor venue in the inner-city for further consideration.
“The Brisbane Electorate Office has also been contacted by numerous constituents showing enthusiasm for upgrades to Perry Park, especially given the popularity of the Matildas following the World Cup in Australia,” they said.

 

[Section 5]

Just about everyone on Lions BF knows i have been against Brisbane Arena/Live for a long time.
Federal Labor have basically said it has gone too far to stop now.
I don't get how that's possible, but they are financing the project.
I am hoping what they mean by that is it going ahead no matter what, but maybe where is still up in the air.
The project will go ahead irrespective of my thoughts.
Federal Labor with an election before May will get some heat from residence, the Greens and other parties from now on.

As we know Quirk suggested the move because the original site was $4 billion.
I won't go over too much that i have mentioned before but point out a few other things.

The original location had people getting off a train or bus and going next door to the venue was very accessible.
No pedestrian traffic interference to people living in the multiple unit towers along Parkland Boulevard.
The new location not so much, see maps below.
I know it is not that far but there is a difference.
Maybe there is another way out of the to be finished underground station but i can't find one.
However, the usual trains and buses have a tunnel leading directly to the park area. I assume that will stay open.

The Normanby Hotel is close. Caxton Street is a fair walk. Nothing really at the Roma Street part of Brisbane yet either.

The site above CRR Wooloongagga is a better location in my opinion.
The site literally will have bus and train at their doorstep and hospitality venues already exist.
The site is flat and i don't think it will cost as much as Roma Street.
People and businesses in the area already used to the construction noise.



The red X is the entrance and exit of the new underground station.

 

[dlanod]

Residents join Greens in opposing Roma Street arena - Cameron Atfield

That's a real classic!

“We must stress that we do not object to development on the Parkland site of an appropriate nature as proposed in various existing planning documents,” they write in their submission.

“We do object to the hastily chosen, high-impact and massive development that would be Brisbane Arena unless it can be demonstrated that our concerns are groundless.”

LOL. Unless that development is an Instagram-friendly cafe they're sure as hell going to object to anything. Classic NIMBY diversion - "we don't object to everything at all! Just this and anything like it and anything at all..."

While supportive of an inner-city arena, Protect Roma Street Parkland argues the proposed location would have “major negative impacts on the environment, community amenity, and local infrastructure”.
One of those impacts was the need for a new “universal access pathway,” identified in the Quirk review, needed to get people safely to and from the arena.
“If this universal access path approach is implemented, the park will be effectively cut in two and mean a major loss of park at both ends for new routes and vertical transportation,” Protect Roma Street Parkland says.
“Presumably multiple new escalators and lifts of much greater capacity will be required adjacent to the Roma Street Station exit with the loss of the Carriage Shed.

They're against paths in parks.

“There will be a major negative impact on the form of the park with loss of significant trees, well established vegetation, disruption of flora etc.”

Really? I've been to the Parklands. Is the flora the grass?

They also expressed concerns for their safety.
“Unless Parkland Boulevard is quarantined by diverting pedestrian traffic around the Parklands complex, the security and safety of Parkland residents, their homes and property will face an increased risk of crime when pedestrians trespass into basement carparks and apartment buildings,” they said.

If they want to avoid crime from people coming to the neighbourhood, maybe they should advocate for a cop shop and prison to be placed there.

And there was the visual impact too, as Protect Roma Street Parkland notes most units would overlook the arena.
“Being able to see a building superstructure is not an issue in itself as all parties would have expected development on that site at some stage in the future,” they say in their submission.
“Purchasers since 2021 would be expecting development in accordance with the [Cross River Rail Priority Development Area] 2021, with earlier purchasers expecting development in accordance with the Brisbane City Plan current at the time of purchase.

How dare the world outside my window change??? Go intrude on someone else's backyard!

The submission makes the case for protecting green space, while paradoxically suggesting Victoria Park as one of several alternative sites.
Opponents of a proposed main Olympic stadium at Victoria Park have expressed similar misgivings about the potential loss of green space there.
“We are aware of the proposals to site various venues on the Victoria Park and Hamilton,” Protect Roma Street Parkland notes.

Definite NIMBY vibes! Anywhere but here.

“Again, while this is a sensitive community issue, both these sites would seem to present a much easier, cheaper and less intrusive build than the Parkland site.”
They argue the original Brisbane Live proposal over the railway tracks had “enormous advantages over the proposed Roma Street Parklands site,” and also backed an arena for the Gabba.

Over the railway tracks is cheaper, easier and less intrusive? Hell, even the Gabba will require complete demolishing, etc. They should just say "less intrusive for us, out of sight out of mind".

“We are not opposed to appropriate development, but the decision to place a 17,000-seat arena adjacent to Roma Street Parklands has been rushed and overlooks major risks to the community, the environment, and park users,” committee spokesman Ross Beames said.

So what's appropriate? We all know what the answer is.

Just had to laugh because it's like they got the NIMBY talking points out of a box, including the diversionary tactics of pointing anywhere else and claiming they're not NIMBYs.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Saw this on the ABC last night. I recommend going to 16:30 where it covers the move of the Australian Open from Kooyong to Flinders Park. I think you'll recognise some of the language and arguments

Australia's Open

Every January, the Australian Open commands global attention, but when off-court drama steals the show, Australia itself becomes part of the spectacle.

iview.abc.net.au

 

[Perrip]

So what's appropriate? We all know what the answer is.

Just had to laugh because it's like they got the NIMBY talking points out of a box, including the diversionary tactics of pointing anywhere else and claiming they're not NIMBYs.

Nah, I agree with them. Using Roma Street as the Brisbane Live location isn't a good idea, as Section 5 suggests above.

At least here they've actually proposed & support alternative locations for Brisbane Live, i.e. Gabba & Vic Park, rather than not supporting a venue location and refusing to support another location for the venue, like certain other groups are doing.

 

[Section 5]

I am all for Victoria Park to get a new stadium but no swimming or entertainment center venues.
Three large structures on that area are not warranted and unlikely to get approval.
The Lions and cricket along with their supporters should be happy if Victoria Park gets the go ahead.
Most of the concerns for that area look like they can be overcome with some negotiating.
The fact is the Park is hardly used by the public irrespective of what certain people are saying.
The arears being used are where buildings have been constructed for hospitality purposes.
A stadium along with integrating the BCC masterplan will turn the park into something special for locals and tourists.

However, throwing the parties objecting to Victoria Park in with what is proposed at the car park and depot area of Roma Street Parklands is chalk and cheese in my opinion.
I am not concerned about the Greens as they object to everything but do highlight some things that require attention at various sites in the country.

The residents along Parkland Boulevard have legitimate concerns of excess pedestrian traffic along with behavior of these concert goers and whatever else will be staged at the venue.
I am sure if fellow BF posters lived along Parkland Boulevard you would not be happy about what is planned.
The residents moved into the area with views and access to a quiet parkland that's just outside the CBD.
The original Brisbane Arena/Live site was far from their doorstep and of no big concern.
A quick google search has a 110m2 apartment 2 bed 2 bath for $1.2million.
A link for any BF poster interested in moving to Brisbane.
Also shows some of the parkland and a few of the 5 existing buildings

https://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-qld-brisbane+city-146329948

Presently there are 5 fairly large unit buildings in Parkland Boulevard, so a lot of people affected.
The current CRR PDF has provision for another set of 5 buildings with units and green space with no reduction in public parking spaces. Some affordable housing included. A far better option for the area in my opinion.

 

[Dalions]

I am all for Victoria Park to get a new stadium but no swimming or entertainment center venues.
Three large structures on that area are not warranted and unlikely to get approval.
The Lions and cricket along with their supporters should be happy if Victoria Park gets the go ahead.
Most of the concerns for that area look like they can be overcome with some negotiating.
The fact is the Park is hardly used by the public irrespective of what certain people are saying.
The arears being used are where buildings have been constructed for hospitality purposes.
A stadium along with integrating the BCC masterplan will turn the park into something special for locals and tourists.

However, throwing the parties objecting to Victoria Park in with what is proposed at the car park and depot area of Roma Street Parklands is chalk and cheese in my opinion.
I am not concerned about the Greens as they object to everything but do highlight some things that require attention at various sites in the country.

The residents along Parkland Boulevard have legitimate concerns of excess pedestrian traffic along with behavior of these concert goers and whatever else will be staged at the venue.
I am sure if fellow BF posters lived along Parkland Boulevard you would not be happy about what is planned.
The residents moved into the area with views and access to a quiet parkland that's just outside the CBD.
The original Brisbane Arena/Live site was far from their doorstep and of no big concern.
A quick google search has a 110m2 apartment 2 bed 2 bath for $1.2million.
A link for any BF poster interested in moving to Brisbane.
Also shows some of the parkland and a few of the 5 existing buildings

https://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-qld-brisbane+city-146329948

Presently there are 5 fairly large unit buildings in Parkland Boulevard, so a lot of people affected.
The current CRR PDF has provision for another set of 5 buildings with units and green space with no reduction in public parking spaces. Some affordable housing included. A far better option for the area in my opinion.

View attachment 2203422

Stadium at VIC Park and Brisbane Arena opposite the current Gabba is the best solution imo.

We will probably end up with the opposite.
With a new Stadium opposite the Gabba and Brisbane Arena in VIC Park.

 

[dlanod]

At least here they've actually proposed & support alternative locations for Brisbane Live, i.e. Gabba & Vic Park, rather than not supporting a venue location and refusing to support another location for the venue, like certain other groups are doing.

There's realistically no difference between not nominating and anywhere else but near me. It's not like either are putting in research to support their alternatives, so it costs them literally zero to say "hey, put it where others are talking about".

 

[Section 5]

There's realistically no difference between not nominating and anywhere else but near me. It's not like either are putting in research to support their alternatives, so it costs them literally zero to say "hey, put it where others are talking about".

Others have done some research so why would they duplicate it.
Why go to the expense when it would only be a guess/copy/past by some firm after some quick money anyhow.
If they did not nominate somewhere else, people probably say "they gave no alternative" just complaining as usual.

You are right about "anywhere else but near me".
In my opinion the residents have legitimate concerns about an Entertainment Centre on their doorstep.

On another point where is the validation report for the RSP new site. Quirk said that was urgent in March 2024.
That's the only report that really matters along with the 100-day review.
Hopefully the Authority have received it by now or it is imminent.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Others have done some research so why would they duplicate it.
Why go to the expense when it would only be a guess/copy/past by some firm after some quick money anyhow.
If they did not nominate somewhere else, people probably say "they gave no alternative" just complaining as usual.

You are right about "anywhere else but near me".
In my opinion the residents have legitimate concerns about an Entertainment Centre on their doorstep.

On another point where is the validation report for the RSP new site. Quirk said that was urgent in March 2024.
That's the only report that really matters along with the 100-day review.
Hopefully the Authority have received it by now or it is imminent.

RSP?

 

[Viceregal]

RSP?

Roma Street Parklands I believe...

 

[dlanod]

RSP?

Roma Snack Pack

 

[Grasshopper17]

Roma Snack Pack

Queues will be banked up all the way back to the stadium for that during the Olympics.

And quite possibly I'll be among them!