FTA-TV Game of Thrones Season VII

[TheGreatBarryB]

Serious? Its the most Ned Stark thing ever - endure the undeserved scorn of your wife for 20 years in the name of keeping your family safe. Whatta bloke

I've been married over 20 years mate and the last thing you need is......anyway, seriously why wouldn't he trust Catelyn with that info.

And your point is exactly why it's a ludicrous proposition i.e as if noble Ned would ever be unfaithful. The other thing I can't believe with that is that Catelyn would be such a cow to Jon. As if you would take it out on a little baby. Theon was treated better. That's not Catelyn.

 

[bourbons]

Even if they can't swim, I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to just walk along the bottom. It's not as if they need to breathe - many of them are nothing more than skeletons.

Maybe they can, I assume thats how they attached the chains got the dragon out of the lake. Possibly they can't walk around the wall underwater due to the terrain on the ocean floor or strong currents.

Yep.. the NK needed a dragon to get through the wall, so he used the Magnificent 7 as bait to lure Dany & the dragons north. He even used the single WW and it's tame troup of wights, one of which was conveniently not turned by that particular WW, as bait to trap the Magnificent 7. Where it all falls down is that setting the trap still required knowledge of Jon's monumentally stupid and completely illogical idea of capturing a wight, to show Cersei.

A->B->C->D... B, C & D all make sense, but A is a complete failure of logic.

Possibility that the NK can see things, similar to Bran.

Missing a few bits here.. like the whole A->B->C->D argument I stated before. He's had his entire army since Hardhome, which was 2 seasons ago. He hasn't been building anything, he's just taken his sweet time walking a relatively short distance.

Its exactly what he's been doing. The amount of time taken to reach the wall actually makes alot of sense - having no way to get past it (maybe he spent some of that time trying other ideas like walking underwater), he hasn't been walking straight towards it for 6 seasons - he's been mopping up every single human north of the wall.

It's kind of plausible... but having omnipotent beings, who can see everything, is just really lazy storytelling. It would really suck if it does turn out this is how NK knew to set the dragon trap.

I like that Bran can see things, but he has to focus in on them. He didn't know to look for the Targ/Stark wedding, until Sam told him about it - then he was able to go back and view it. The problem is that the whole Magnificent 7 idea is so monumentally stupid and illogical that there's no reason for the NK to go looking for it, even if he could have seen the planning - had he been looking.

No reason to go looking? Serious?? NK has encountered Jon before, seen him kill another walker and knows he leads the army thats first on their hit list. If he does have the ability to see things, you'd reckon he'd be checking in on Jon daily, just as Bran is doing with the NK.

You're making my point for me. We can't assume that the dragon was Plan A, given that the NK had no idea that the dragon was ever going to show up, or even that dragons had returned to the world. The dragon was a wildly successful, but ultimately opportunistic Plan B. What was Plan A?

As you say, they show the patience of the dead.. but what were they waiting patiently for? What was the NK's Plan A? How was he going to take his army south of the wall?

Which then begs the question - what was the NK's plan for getting south of the wall? He can't have been relying upon the arrival of a dragon, given that it was only an act of monumental stupidity which resulted in them heading north of the wall in the first place.

Well we still don't know the specifics of the NK's power, so he may have known that dragons had returned and was playing a long game ever since Dany walked out of the red waste with 3 of them and the want to return to Westeros. But if not, who knows what plan A was, maybe there wasn't one. Seems like their return is linked to extremely long winters, I'm guessing once summer wound down it was go time. In any case, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to say "ah **** it I'll just wait for another 8 thousand years, hopefully the wall will be down by then" lol. Just get to building the army and see what plays out.

We're talking about her brother (Tyrion). The only person who knows her better is Jaime. There's no way Tyrion would have thought that she was ever going to change her mind, based on the existence of a wight.

By that logic Tyrion would never have bothered going to see her one-on-one either, or believed her when she said she would send her armies north to help. Of course it nearly worked, she was ready to agree the the truce if Jon stood out afterwards.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, at some point you have to do the best you can with the hand you've been dealt. I think team Targ all realised it was the longest of long shots from the start.

 

[jatz14]

I've been married over 20 years mate and the last thing you need is......anyway, seriously why wouldn't he trust Catelyn with that info.

And your point is exactly why it's a ludicrous proposition i.e as if noble Ned would ever be unfaithful. The other thing I can't believe with that is that Catelyn would be such a cow to Jon. As if you would take it out on a little baby. Theon was treated better. That's not Catelyn.

I think that is the beauty of GOT characterisation though. The characters are mostly shades of grey. I can believe that an otherwise upstanding character as Catelyn can harbour a bitter resentment at a presumed infidelity that they just cannot get past it. I can picture Catelyn actually being disappointed in her feelings and behaviour to Jon, but being powerless to change them

 

[Starburns_]

TBH you would have bitched you didnt see the resurrection. I know how you roll

'How did they get the dead dragon up from the bottom of the icy lake?'

did anyone bitch when we saw the giant wight at the start of the season but did not see his resurection? nope. Dont think one person did. know why? cos we all know how it was done and completely believable in the world they have created. no one has ever bitched about those things.

Seriously? People bitched about how they got Wun Wun's body.

I've been married over 20 years mate and the last thing you need is......anyway, seriously why wouldn't he trust Catelyn with that info.

And your point is exactly why it's a ludicrous proposition i.e as if noble Ned would ever be unfaithful. The other thing I can't believe with that is that Catelyn would be such a cow to Jon. As if you would take it out on a little baby. Theon was treated better. That's not Catelyn.

It's the perfect cover, genuine hatred for what Jon represented. If she knew the truth, perhaps she might've treated him more like one of her own and aroused suspicions.

As for how she treated him, there's a scene where she discusses that (with Robb's wife maybe?) a few episodes before the Red Wedding.

 

[jatz14]

You're making my point for me. We can't assume that the dragon was Plan A, given that the NK had no idea that the dragon was ever going to show up, or even that dragons had returned to the world. The dragon was a wildly successful, but ultimately opportunistic Plan B. What was Plan A?

As you say, they show the patience of the dead.. but what were they waiting patiently for? What was the NK's Plan A? How was he going to take his army south of the wall?

I think you are overthinking this. That wall has been there a long time, and there have been winters before, yet they never got past. Plan A may be to use that patience, build your army of the dead, apply pressure, see what happens. If nothing happens, try again next time. This time, what happened was a dead Dragon, dead Dragon is now plan A.

I can imagine winters of the past, with an army of the dead slowly marching to the wall, then along the wall, probing for weakness, testing defences, hoping for a mistake, then fading away as winter ends.

 

[bourbons]

I've been married over 20 years mate and the last thing you need is......anyway, seriously why wouldn't he trust Catelyn with that info.

And your point is exactly why it's a ludicrous proposition i.e as if noble Ned would ever be unfaithful. The other thing I can't believe with that is that Catelyn would be such a cow to Jon. As if you would take it out on a little baby. Theon was treated better. That's not Catelyn.

Very small chance the truth comes out vs no chance?

Also pretty common for blokes away for a year or more at war to find some comfort no matter how noble they are. Multiple times thinking it could be their last night on earth, it was fleshed out a bit more in the books.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

'How did they get the dead dragon up from the bottom of the icy lake?'



Seriously? People bitched about how they got Wun Wun's body.



It's the perfect cover, genuine hatred for what Jon represented. If she knew the truth, perhaps she might've treated him more like one of her own and aroused suspicions.

As for how she treated him, there's a scene where she discusses that (with Robb's wife maybe?) a few episodes before the Red Wedding.

They dont have wun wun's body...

 

[Starburns_]

They dont have wun wun's body...

I know that, but the NK not having the body didn't stop many people in this thread thinking it was Wun Wun.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Nah I think seeing the close-up of that ice blue eye opening was more impactful (and heart wrenching) than him suddenly appearing riding it would have been.

That was a fantastic shot to end an ep on.

I agree, it was a great way to end the episode.

 

[Red mist]

Gilly really discovered the annulment. Wildlings boss it.

 

[wce4premiership]

Things I enjoyed:

- Dialogue was back
- Cersei stayed true to herself, she was never going to realistically give a **** and was annoying me how they thought she would, but it worked well in pushing Jaime off the other side
- Realistic interactions, Tyrion a well played scene with Cersei, reminiscent of their old scenes together and actually much better than his rendezvous with Jaime
- Tyrion's look of distrust/discomfort at the Jon and Daenarys sexytime. Perhaps he's known for a long time, he is meant to be a very wise man (but his motivations for hiding it wouldn't make much sense)
- A larger character dying


Things I didn't like:
- Littlefinger dying was too predictable, imagine if it had been when he was actually important? The effect would have been huge. Bronn dying against the dragon would have been far more surprising
- The wall seemed to collapse quite easily, that thing is ****ing huuuuuuuggeeeeee!!! In saying that though I don't know what else they could have shown. Just seemed quite easy for them


Overall a good episode and I hope all of the last season is that long, they paced that well, they had interesting dialogue and characters came to the forefront. I can't ****ing wait to see the next season, it will be huge!

 

[Kirby]

I just watched it again and it's even better than I first thought.
Great episode!

 

[Mningasimisonda]

So were there any theories on why Rhaegar named both of his two sons Aegon? He really wanted a conqueror son to win back Westeros and the first Aegon was dead so thought he would try again?

 

[unplugged]

So were there any theories on why Rhaegar named both of his two sons Aegon? He really wanted a conqueror son to win back Westeros and the first Aegon was dead so thought he would try again?

I think something to do with Rhaegar believing in “the Prince that was promised” prophecy, and wanting to fulfil it, hence doubling his chances.

Don't know what the significance of the name is though. I'm sure others will have some idea.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

I've put this in spoiler tags in case, but it is just discussing theories that have been floated around for a while in more detail.

Spoiler

Also on the topic of Targaryens, they say half of them are mad and "every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin".

They also love power and the use of fire in war, hence the house words "fire and blood".

The person who has burnt the most people, sits in the most powerful position in Westeros and is by far the maddest person in GoT looks very Targaryen in appearance. Her mother was also rumoured to mess with Targaryens.



Is there any chance that she has legitimate claim to the iron throne?

Also, which of her and Jaime were born first?

 

[drd23]

I've put this in spoiler tags in case, but it is just discussing theories that have been floated around for a while in more detail.

Spoiler

Also on the topic of Targaryens, they say half of them are mad and "every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin".

They also love power and the use of fire in war, hence the house words "fire and blood".

The person who has burnt the most people, sits in the most powerful position in Westeros and is by far the maddest person in GoT looks very Targaryen in appearance. Her mother was also rumoured to mess with Targaryens.

View attachment 409662

Is there any chance that she has legitimate claim to the iron throne?

Also, which of her and Jaime were born first?

No because they would be a bastard

 

[Mningasimisonda]

No because they would be a bastard

Yeah, I think that part is unavoidable.

Spoiler

Interesting that her son Joffrey's was mad as f@#k too though. So I won't be surprised at all if she has Targaryen blood and it plays some part.

 

[drd23]

Yeah, I think that part is unavoidable.

Spoiler

Interesting that her son Joffrey's was mad as f@#k too though. So I won't be surprised at all if she has Targaryen blood and it plays some part.

Spoiler

Presumably the reason that Targs had a decent chance of being mad had to do with the level of inbreeding/incest among them given they were notorious for marrying their siblings (at least early on).

Given that Joffrey was the result of incest, there would be a chance (although small) for genetic mutations purely because of that that may occur for Joffrey (or it could just be due to his upbringing)

 

[Warsaw]

Haven't read the last 20 odd pages so probably just repeating what's already been said, but that was a bloody good episode.

'Beyond' was good but very flawed (for me anyway), not getting over how dumb that plan was, but the payoffs here were really great. The dragon pit was such a great setting, the horror on their faces at the wight. I'm actually bummed that Euron's not just gonna hold up at the Iron Islands because I thought that plan was dope.

Fantastic scenes between Cersei and Tyrion and then Cersei and Jamie. Her nod and the Mountain drawing his sword is the most shook I've even been watching the show. Dead serious there, and yeah that's saying something. I think I'm glad it didn't happen, but **** me if it did. I think Lena Headey is low-key the MVP of the show. Loved that little montage of Winter is Here.

Littlefinger...it had to happen, not sure how I feel about the misdirection b/w Arya and Sansa though, or this suddenly brilliant execution. Gillen played that character well - shifting accents aside - and watching him squirm was both oddly delightful and disturbing. But the book Littlefinger is much more nuanced, and hard to think this would be how he dies.

I was jonesing for a Rhaegar, Lyanna, Young Ned, Bran visions since Winds of Winter. Get it here, probably felt a little flat because this wasn't anything new. I've basically accepted who Jon was at the end of last season, so it's weird that this season was about confirming it - and Jon still doesn't know. Only new piece of information was that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and he and Lyanna wed, from Gilly (not Sam!) and Bran just confirmed it again here. But still, incest ****ing ftw I guess.

Enjoyed it a lot, watched with a bunch of others for the 4th time this season and it easily got the best reactions. I will say though I have nfi how they wrap this up in 6 (albeit extended) episodes. Sentiment going into this season was that the politicking would more or less be done, and we'd be all into the war against the undead next. If you thought people were complaining about the warp pace the show was on this season...

 

[kane249]

I know that, but the NK not having the body didn't stop many people in this thread thinking it was Wun Wun.

All Giants look at the same to them, racists

 

[crownie]

.

it just was completely predictable and lacked anything epic.

LMAO!

 

[Brutalitops]

Dont think that's true. His first aegon doesnt die till after Rhaegar dies on the trident.

Jon's name is Jahaerys - aegon is a retarted name

Ned rode south after the Sack of Kings Landing (during which Elia Martell, Aegon and Rhaenys were brutally murdered), which occurred after the Battle of the Trident (Where Rhaegar died).

Ned rode south in a cold rage to fight the last battles of the war alone. Then he arrived at the Tower of Joy...

 

[Substance]

I've been married over 20 years mate and the last thing you need is......anyway, seriously why wouldn't he trust Catelyn with that info.

And your point is exactly why it's a ludicrous proposition i.e as if noble Ned would ever be unfaithful. The other thing I can't believe with that is that Catelyn would be such a cow to Jon. As if you would take it out on a little baby. Theon was treated better. That's not Catelyn.

Ned needed her to believe the lie. If she didn't believe it, she might not have been so convincing. Everyone knew about the bastard of winterfell, and how much Cat hated him. If Cat had to fake that hatred, maybe Robert(or someone else) would have seen through it? He sacrificed his honor to keep his nephew safe, and to keep his promise to his sister.

 

[Seeds]

Nah I think seeing the close-up of that ice blue eye opening was more impactful (and heart wrenching) than him suddenly appearing riding it would have been.

That was a fantastic shot to end an ep on.

I thought it was boring. Should of ended with them being rescued.

 

[Biggie]

I thought it was boring. Should of ended with them being rescued.

Nice morning for a fish. Any bites?