Game plan

[RECORDS!]

I reckon 2013 stuffed us right up. Sacrificed 3x 6 goal leads to Carlton, I reckon it spooked Dimma out of it a bit.

That is exactly what happened. I was lucky enough to sit in on a coaches meeting at the start of the 2014 season. They highlighted a turnover in the 2013 final where Houli goes long to Jack with a sh1t kick and Carlton rebound and kick a goal 10 seconds later. From 2014 there was a team rule that you couldn't go to anyone inside 50 one on one unless the next closest person (3rd) was a Richmond player (Jake Kings role).

They then showed a piece of footage from the 2014 NAB challenge where Houli was streaming forward through the middle and Jack had a one on one but the closest player was an oppo 25m away. Houli stopped on a dime and went wide to Newmo on the wing. We then chipped it up and Edwards got a set shot 50 out and goaled. This was praised in the team meeting as the type of footy we wanted to play. This is all serious.

Hardwick also told us that tackling stats were over rated and corralling was the main form of defence they believed in. Acc to him, too easy to break a tackle and get hands off, therefore taking the tackler out of play. This is again serious.

It's gonna be hard to convince the current group of players that you want to completely change what you have been trying to drill into them for 3 years. Good luck to him, but not sure if it's gonna work if they know he doesn't really believe what he's telling them...

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Interesting watching the Bullies on Thursday night, they had players run to dangerous spots and then the man with the footy just pulled the trigger.

They were prepared to turn it over being aggressive rather than turn it over kicking to the eagles strength (their defensive set-up). Once it worked once or twice, the eagles were forced to change and the whole game opened up for them.

Where the Bullies attacked with the chance of losing (yet won)...
We are too afraid and take the soft option to avoid losing (yet lose anyway)...

All the top teams win because they move the ball forward in an attacking manner...

Sydney maul opponents at the stoppage then spread to open space
Geelong drive through the midfield with long disposal
Hawthorn move forward with footskills
GWS run and carry in numbers (ridiculous numbers)
Adelaide set back then 'sling shot' forward
Bulldogs hunt at the stoppage the spread a hybrid of Sydney/GWS

All the remaining 6 teams left have similar characteristics albeit through different execution. The 2 biggest factors in there are:

1) Fast ball movement
2) Forward ball movement

When any of these teams are executing with the above two traits they are hard to beat on any day, just like if you are able to stop them doing those two things you go a long way to winning a game against them.

There will always be example of when Team 12 beat Team 1 (Us v Swans for example), but those outcomes are the exception rather than the rule, and are usually due to Team 12 stopping Team 1 from using fast and direct ball movement rather than Team 12's stop and chip game style.

Bar the swans in 2005, name a team that has played differently than that an won the flag...

1997 - Adelaide
1998 - Adelaide
1999 - North Melb
2000 - Essendon
2001 - Brisbane
2002 - Brisbane
2003 - Brisbane
2004 - Port Adel
2005 - Sydney
2006 - WCE
2007 - Geelong
2008 - Hawthorn
2009 - Geelong
2010 - Collingwood
2011 - Geelong
2012 - Sydney
2013 - Hawthorn
2014 - Hawthorn
2015 - Hawthorn
2016 - (GWS / Geelong / Bulldogs / Hawthorn / Adelaide / Sydney)

 

[NaturalDisaster]

That is exactly what happened. I was lucky enough to sit in on a coaches meeting at the start of the 2014 season. They highlighted a turnover in the 2013 final where Houli goes long to Jack with a sh1t kick and Carlton rebound and kick a goal 10 seconds later. From 2014 there was a team rule that you couldn't go to anyone inside 50 one on one unless the next closest person (3rd) was a Richmond player (Jake Kings role).

They then showed a piece of footage from the 2014 NAB challenge where Houli was streaming forward through the middle and Jack had a one on one but the closest player was an oppo 25m away. Houli stopped on a dime and went wide to Newmo on the wing. We then chipped it up and Edwards got a set shot 50 out and goaled. This was praised in the team meeting as the type of footy we wanted to play. This is all serious.

Hardwick also told us that tackling stats were over rated and corralling was the main form of defence they believed in. Acc to him, too easy to break a tackle and get hands off, therefore taking the tackler out of play. This is again serious.

It's gonna be hard to convince the current group of players that you want to completely change what you have been trying to drill into them for 3 years. Good luck to him, but not sure if it's gonna work if they know he doesn't really believe what he's telling them...

If this is true about the 13 final it doesn't surprise me, I've said it before that game spooked him. He lost it then never recovered.
L
Also tells he he doesn't trust the group as much as he tells us, otherwise he would encourage to take risks.

 

[RECORDS!]

If this is true about the 13 final it doesn't surprise me, I've said it before that game spooked him. He lost it then never recovered.
L
Also tells he he doesn't trust the group as much as he tells us, otherwise he would encourage to take risks.

It's true mate. Posted this 2 years ago, but the mods took it down. Enough water has passed now I suppose.

 

[Tortured fan]

It's true mate. Posted this 2 years ago, but the mods took it down. Enough water has passed now I suppose.

Why would Mods take it down? More interesting than half the crap on here!

 

[RECORDS!]

Why would Mods take it down? More interesting than half the crap on here!

They said it was the wrong thing to do after being privy to such a meeting. That the club wouldn't expect it to be public knowledge.

 

[Ralll]

Its a hard one re. our gamestyle.
Ive watched 2 games since the end of the season, the 2013 vs Freo, and the 2015 vs Hawthorn.

The game vs Freo was laughable, turnover central, we won through weight of I50 numbers but the quick forward movement at all costs was u16's stuff. I can understand why the experts were on us all year about this gamestyle not getting it done in September...and it didnt, but was chaotic and fun to watch.

The 15' game against Hawks was superb football, hard defensive running and corralling (only 52 tkl's) to stop their uncontested marking and not allow them any space, considered forward ball movement, slowing up when necessary, going more direct when we had someone open, plenty of hard running around the ground to accommodate either style. This was a much better gameplan, deliberate ball movement fast or slow, and an ability to lock the opp down defensively.

Why we cant play the current game plan more consistently is a worry, we've sacked most of our assistant coaches which says alot, and maybe they're trying to break up some cliques in the playing group they feel are holding us back.

I dont know the answer to fixing us, but going back to the '13 style isnt the answer imo.

 

[HTT]

Its a hard one re. our gamestyle.
Ive watched 2 games since the end of the season, the 2013 vs Freo, and the 2015 vs Hawthorn.

The game vs Freo was laughable, turnover central, we won through weight of I50 numbers but the quick forward movement at all costs was u16's stuff. I can understand why the experts were on us all year about this gamestyle not getting it done in September...and it didnt, but was chaotic and fun to watch.

The 15' game against Hawks was superb football, hard defensive running and corralling (only 52 tkl's) to stop their uncontested marking and not allow them any space, considered forward ball movement, slowing up when necessary, going more direct when we had someone open, plenty of hard running around the ground to accommodate either style. This was a much better gameplan, deliberate ball movement fast or slow, and an ability to lock the opp down defensively.

Why we cant play the current game plan more consistently is a worry, we've sacked most of our assistant coaches which says alot, and maybe they're trying to break up some cliques in the playing group they feel are holding us back.

I dont know the answer to fixing us, but going back to the '13 style isnt the answer imo.

Watch some of our other games from 2013, all 3 Carlton first halves (if you can take the pain of what happens later), hawthorn win, GWS win, whatever other good matches/quarters we played, our dominance of those matches was generally set by our willingness to go forward. There's always going to be some turnovers, but the positives far outweigh it. Without really looking at that Fremantle match, I would say that it was a result of their insane pressure. I think we also started to see it come out late last year, but something happened this year. I would argue that we lacked a decent half-back line, and we were hoping for Yarran to help out Houli in that department.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

The current game plan and tactics have been found ineffectual in the finals.

I would rather watch a team all out attack style than this chip anyways but forward.

 

[tigerdan]

The current game plan is shit and any plans to continue should be met by a sacking.

I don't mind it as a purely defensive tactic ala stacking the defence to avoid the opposition getting a run on but as a plan A it's about as effective as getting players to play blindfolded.

It's the natural instinct of most players (especially young ones) to be attacking. So attack! Let's jack try to kick 10 a game! Let rioli run it forward! Let cotchin and Martin play as forwards for half the game. ****, we have the best full back in the game! Fix the gameplan and we can go places.

 

[Crumpet_avenger]

When matty knights takes over we will be exciting. Til then im waiten for the paint to dry on my window sill whilst watchen the grass growing

 

[tigerz18]

That is exactly what happened. I was lucky enough to sit in on a coaches meeting at the start of the 2014 season. They highlighted a turnover in the 2013 final where Houli goes long to Jack with a sh1t kick and Carlton rebound and kick a goal 10 seconds later. From 2014 there was a team rule that you couldn't go to anyone inside 50 one on one unless the next closest person (3rd) was a Richmond player (Jake Kings role).

They then showed a piece of footage from the 2014 NAB challenge where Houli was streaming forward through the middle and Jack had a one on one but the closest player was an oppo 25m away. Houli stopped on a dime and went wide to Newmo on the wing. We then chipped it up and Edwards got a set shot 50 out and goaled. This was praised in the team meeting as the type of footy we wanted to play. This is all serious.

This part gives me the sh8ts. as a former goalkicking small forward, i cannot for the life of me understand how we can have small forwards that are not within 25m of our key fowards at all times. this is an image of the 4 main areas that a key forward takes their marks. the circle is roughly 30m (around the circumference) from the marking contest. How can we have 0 small forwards inside that circle when someone like Jack Reiwoltd is leading to the ball? This is what Titch , LLoyd and Rioli are getting paid for.
a good small forward stays no further than that from a key forward.
its basic football knowledge.

 

[Tango67]

This part gives me the sh8ts. as a former goalkicking small forward, i cannot for the life of me understand how we can have small forwards that are not within 25m of our key fowards at all times. this is an image of the 4 main areas that a key forward takes their marks. the circle is roughly 30m (around the circumference) from the marking contest. How can we have 0 small forwards inside that circle when someone like Jack Reiwoltd is leading to the ball? This is what Titch , LLoyd and Rioli are getting paid for.
a good small forward stays no further than that from a key forward.
its basic football knowledge.

disagree, this is old style footy or a set up after a ball up or throw in close to 50.

the modern game sees all forwards pushing up the ground, the HFF are now extra mids that are up the ground who link, run and carry the ball inside 50.

from stoppages yes you may get a setup like this and basic front and center rules apply but as more and more game time is played on rebound, open slingshot footy the old crumbling position is being limited.

this is why foot speed, athleticism and footskills are so important today, you slingshot and you score or else it's going back down the other end..... basketball by foot

 

[Hank Heavenly]

the second a coach leaves a FF at home and he kicks a bag, it will all change

 

[CoggaRules]

Game plan will be different. Ball with be moved faster (or with the intent to move it faster)...

Yes. The coach made it clear we were trying new things at the end of the year including a few new players so we could see what to work on. The last I heard the printer blew the fuses when he was printing out the things we need to work on with the new things we were trying. BTW has anyone asked him what these new things were? All I saw was and I will quote the missus and she ain't to much of a footy chick but even she had to remark when having to endure another 3 hours of comedy gold, her comment lol "the tigers are bumbling boobies". That's so ****ing on the money

 

[Tango67]

Yes. The coach made it clear we were trying new things at the end of the year including a few new players so we could see what to work on. The last I heard the printer blew the fuses when he was printing out the things we need to work on with the new things we were trying. BTW has anyone asked him what these new things were? All I saw was and I will quote the missus and she ain't to much of a footy chick but even she had to remark when having to endure another 3 hours of comedy gold, her comment lol "the tigers are bumbling boobies". That's so ******* on the money

good point, but what was he trying early in the year when we were shit then

 

[CoggaRules]

good point, but what was he trying early in the year when we were shit then

Man at the end of the day there ain't no game plan. No one in their right mind can tell me we had any ****ing idea on what we were doing.

 

[Tango67]

Man at the end of the day there ain't no game plan. No one in their right mind can tell me we had any ******* idea on what we were doing.

ee

agree, whatever the game plan was the players didn't know or understand it in the early part of the season so what did they work on in pre season....

 

[CoggaRules]

ee

agree, whatever the game plan was the players didn't know or understand it in the early part of the season so what did they work on in pre season....

We don't work on things pre season dude. Like get with the program. All we do is tune up and throw towels in because we were depleted in a game. All I know is we are in serious shit with this dud as coach. Like when it's all said and done ask any footy person any footy scribe listen to anything they talk about when talking about the coach and its we can't afford to ship him out the door. There is not reference to his ability to coach and we should persist. Sorry I lie the only references are he took us from shit truck to to elim losses and back to shit truck. That's all he has on his CV and I ask this would we hire a coach like that? No ****ing way but we are stuck with him. Like all this shit about assistants etc means shit until they get rid of him

 

[partycorolla]

We don't work on things pre season dude. Like get with the program. All we do is tune up and throw towels in because we were depleted in a game

Cheer up sunshine

Look forward with optimism.... Pretty obvious there will be changes to the gameplan. If there aren't, Balme gets to be the hatchet man. Win-win.

 

[CoggaRules]

Cheer up sunshine

Look forward with optimism.... Pretty obvious there will be changes to the gameplan. If there aren't, Balme gets to be the hatchet man. Win-win.

Man cheer up ? Hardwick has NFI dude he does not have a ****ing clue. Unless we do the old shimmy and install a Caracella as assistant coach that coaches the coach that is. Like Dimma pssst see FJ over there? Go join him and on game day look like you are in charge and do the pressas and you have done your job

 

[Spanish_Fly]

2 Points from me.

1. We actually tried a new game plan for about the first 3-4 weeks this year I reckon, a lot more run and carry trying to break through the zones, the issue was our risk averse coach made them hug the boundary line. All that happened was the zone just squeezed us closer to the boundary line and each handball had the receiver under more pressure than the last. Get a heat map of our game against West Coast early on its actually embarrassing. Once this plan didnt work we reverted back to last years plan but the players were caught not really playing either and the results were there for all to see. I would be staggered if some of the players starting losing faith it happens when coaches throw away 5 months of planning after 4 weeks.

2. Ive heard both Bulldogs and Adelaide players talk in the last 2 weeks about the need to keep being brave with the ball movement, that if they stay brave they give themselves the best chance of winning,stark contrast to the risk minimization strategy we've tried to employ since beginning of 2014.

 

[ARES]

No ******* way but we are stuck with him. Like all this shit about assistants etc means shit until they get rid of him

That's the thing. We should not be stuck with a 7 year coach for two more years who in his last year had every media, supporter etc questioning what is the game plan...

His time is up, we should not endure another year or two with him and set the club back years.

His wage will be balanced with the 5-10K or so supporters renegading their threat to not renew their memberships if he stays



And I don't care what the board is attempting to do off field, that is not where the issue lies, the issue is with the coach!

Coach loses players ==> Team loses ==> then loses supporters ==> then loses incoming income (memberships/gate takings/sponsors)...

Get a decent coach ==> Team plays attacking exciting game plan ==> supporters stick fat ==> income sustained/increased...


Make the call RFC! Or walk Peggy as your sugar coating can not sweeten the fact that Hardwick's contract was extended prior to season commencing!

 

[tigerdan]

disagree, this is old style footy or a set up after a ball up or throw in close to 50.

the modern game sees all forwards pushing up the ground, the HFF are now extra mids that are up the ground who link, run and carry the ball inside 50.

from stoppages yes you may get a setup like this and basic front and center rules apply but as more and more game time is played on rebound, open slingshot footy the old crumbling position is being limited.

this is why foot speed, athleticism and footskills are so important today, you slingshot and you score or else it's going back down the other end..... basketball by foot

You are correct, and that's why the game is going to the dogs. Metaphorically that is.

It was interesting to get the afl fan focus thing a few weeks ago where the afl suggested some ways of fixing this, like having a minimum amount of players inside 50 at each stoppage. The game these days is like kids little league with everyone following the ball. I hate it.

 

[Tango67]

like most trends smart coaches work around this, already we are seeing sides like the cats keeping their defensive structures in place and not getting sucked up the ground, you need discipline, fwd pressure and hard running 2 way mids to pull this off.