Opinion Gary Ablett senior , Wayne Carey, Tony Lockett who's the best?

[OneEyedHawk]

He loses points for all the thuggery...

Glad you’re able to maintain your objectivity.
Matthews was responsible for some pretty ordinary incidents on-field; you’ll never find me argue otherwise. But this arbitrary line you’ve drawn whereby Matthews thuggery was so heinous that he now doesn’t even warrant a mention in the GOAT discussion is curious at best. Both Plugger and Ablett respectively damn near killed blokes in off-the-ball incidents during their career, particularly Plugger but Ablett had a fair resume himself.

Also very interesting that Matthews is excluded essentially on ethical / not in the ‘spirit of footy’ type criteria, yet these two other cretins again get a clean bill. Particularly perplexing in Ablett’s case. I can think of one family who could probably mount a decent argument to the contrary.

Anyway, Matthews the clear GOAT. Call me biased but I saw all of them and ultimately shared the view of many, many others. Lethal is widely regarded as the clear GOAT outside the confines of bigfooty’s pre-pubescent environment, and is so for damn good reason.

Number 2: The King.
Number 3: Ablett Snr


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[Slippery Pete]

Glad you’re able to maintain your objectivity.
Matthews was responsible for some pretty ordinary incidents on-field; you’ll never find me argue otherwise. But this arbitrary line you’ve drawn whereby Matthews thuggery was so heinous that he now doesn’t even warrant a mention in the GOAT discussion is curious at best. Both Plugger and Ablett respectively damn near killed blokes in off-the-ball incidents during their career, particularly Plugger but Ablett had a fair resume himself.

Also very interesting that Matthews is excluded essentially on ethical / not in the ‘spirit of footy’ type criteria, yet these two other cretins again get a clean bill. Particularly perplexing in Ablett’s case. I can think of one family who could probably mount a decent argument to the contrary.

Anyway, Matthews the clear GOAT. Call me biased but I saw all of them and ultimately shared the view of many, many others. Lethal is widely regarded as the clear GOAT outside the confines of bigfooty’s pre-pubescent environment, and is so for damn good reason.

Number 2: The King.
Number 3: Ablett Snr


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Carey was better than Matthews.

 

[Burtyl78]

Ablett played 4 GF’s and was disappointing in 3 of them. That’s probably the thing that sticks out the most. His 1989 finals series was of course out of this world.

Was disappointing in 2, played well in 92 but not a stand out

 

[Burtyl78]

He also got beaten by him a lot. He still averaged 4 goals a game against north teams with Martyn in them. As good as Martyn was

Twice maybe, Ablett played on him when he was struggling with back injuries towards the end of seasons

 

[Burtyl78]

stoneham was a gun and a player who has been forgotton a bit with time (in part because he was a mere shadow of himself post broken leg). but he only played 8 games in 94 and missed all of 95. Geelong made the grand final both seasons. We were vastly a superior side with a fit stoneham though. The second best centre half foward of the decade.

Yes Barry was right up with Carey if fit

 

[yyou]

I feel a bit like the girl in the taco ad,
(paraphrased) - can't I have all 3?
They are all in my best ever 22
Side note re: Stoneham, absolute star, but not in the convo with THE 3
Some awesome fwd around that time.
Will add Tredrea & Loewe there (again not with THE 3) , but Dunstall is just a smidge below IMO

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[Oliver09]

Think of the 3 hottest women in the world then rate them in order. You can't and whoever you end up with one of Ablett, Carey & Lockett you won't be disappointed.

 

[Pistol Night]

If you had Pick 1 in the draft who would you take out of them?

And No the answer is not Richard Tambling.

If you lock up your wives, you would take Carey and build a team around him.

Or just marry a woman that’s not a ****

 

[Pistol Night]

Think of the 3 hottest women in the world then rate them in order. You can't and whoever you end up with one of Ablett, Carey & Lockett you won't be disappointed.

Caoline Wilson, Gina Rinehart, Pauline Hanson

 

[dustinlmartin4]

Ablett he is GOD after all and ties with lethal being the all time GOAT


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[Usayed Givashe]

In your opinion that is correct. In my opinion Ablett Snr is the better player. Only one of them they called God!!

God doesn’t exist.

There is only one King.

 

[Pistol Night]

God doesn’t exist.

There is only one King.

Graham Kennedy wasn’t that good at footy

 

[My Tilly]

Yes Barry was right up with Carey if fit

Not even close when in his prime.
Was in the conversation as one of the top 5 CHF's but Carey in his breakout season of 92, averaged 18 disposals, 7.5 marks & 2 goals per game. He went up another notch the very next year and continued to do so throughout his career.

Stoneham's never come close to such high consistency in output.
1989 was good. 16 disposals, 5 marks & 1.5 goals.
1992 was decent with 18 disposals, 5.5 marks & 1.5 goals.
But Carey was a fair step up as an overall player.

 

[Seeds]

Think of the 3 hottest women in the world then rate them in order. You can't and whoever you end up with one of Ablett, Carey & Lockett you won't be disappointed.

This would be a good post to conclude this thread with.

 

[Seeds]

Not even close when in his prime.
Was in the conversation as one of the top 5 CHF's but Carey in his breakout season of 92, averaged 18 disposals, 7.5 marks & 2 goals per game. He went up another notch the very next year and continued to do so throughout his career.

Stoneham's never come close to such high consistency in output.
1989 was good. 16 disposals, 5 marks & 1.5 goals.
1992 was decent with 18 disposals, 5.5 marks & 1.5 goals.
But Carey was a fair step up as an overall player.

It was never consistency. And it was still based on potential a bit. Even before he broke his leg stoneham was suffering from regular injury problems. the first half of his 93 season he struggled through injury. Geelong finally decided to give him a 5 week rest to recover. He then came back with 4 games to go and played the top team three weeks in a row and then eagles in perth and dominated those games like carey at his absolute peak.

averaged 22 disposals. 8 marks and 4.25 goals a game against the best teams in the land as a high centre half foward. At that point he looked every but as good as carey if not better and we All thought that stoneham was now just hitting his peak.

next year he missed the first half of the season through injury. Playing underdone in the later part of the season and then broke his leg. That was it.

we will never know how good he was going to get. He aint alone in that though and carey did actually follow though and become a superstar. The comparison isnt as ridiculous as you might think. It felt real at the time. for a brief moment. Even if it looks stupid in hindsight.

 

[Sky]

The best i have seen are Ablett Snr, Carey, Hart, Williams, Doull of the golden era and you can make a case for Voss, Hird and Buckley who played at the tail end. Ablett jr, Judd and Martin being the greatest of the past 20 years playing a vastly different game.

That one always bugged me because 8x AA Mark Ricciuto is every bit as good as those 3 but gets no mention because he played for a SA club.

 

[Seeds]

That one always bugged me because 8x AA Mark Ricciuto is every bit as good as those 3 but gets no mention because he played for a SA club.

dangerfields an 8 times all australian. No ones mentioned him either.

and im not advocating adding dangerfield. too many south australians used to get all australian noms because of the make up of the panel. Goodwin got way too many as well. Riccuito probably should only have 5 or 6.

 

[Jack Green]

Glad you’re able to maintain your objectivity.

Matthews was responsible for some pretty ordinary incidents on-field; you’ll never find me argue otherwise. But this arbitrary line you’ve drawn whereby Matthews thuggery was so heinous that he now doesn’t even warrant a mention in the GOAT discussion is curious at best. Both Plugger and Ablett respectively damn near killed blokes in off-the-ball incidents during their career, particularly Plugger but Ablett had a fair resume himself.

Also very interesting that Matthews is excluded essentially on ethical / not in the ‘spirit of footy’ type criteria, yet these two other cretins again get a clean bill. Particularly perplexing in Ablett’s case. I can think of one family who could probably mount a decent argument to the contrary.

Anyway, Matthews the clear GOAT. Call me biased but I saw all of them and ultimately shared the view of many, many others. Lethal is widely regarded as the clear GOAT outside the confines of bigfooty’s pre-pubescent environment, and is so for damn good reason.

Number 2: The King.
Number 3: Ablett Snr


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This thread's the best - not the best and fairest so the many indiscretions of these 3 players and Mathews aren't relevant.
Very hard to go past Lethal as the best footballer of all time purely on his statistics - longevity, durabilty and consistent impact in big games.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Unless youre a greyhound.

Or Eddie Maguire.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

On the biggest stage of all….finals… Ablett had too many disappointing ones to be judged above Carey and Lockett. And Lockett would have kicked close to 1,700 goals if he played in great teams like Ablett and Carey did most of their careers.

Lockett - Carey - Ablett.


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You're a hard marker. Ablett played in 16 finals, 11 of them over the age of 30.

3.3
7.7
8.5
9.1

0.0 (was the year he retired and came back, got injured)

5.1
4.5
4.2
3.1

6.6
6.3
3.0
1.2

4.1
0.3

1.3 (35 years of age, last game)

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

In the 80s/90s a CHF is a more valuable commodity than a FF. There's so much more that they do. Longmire kicked 99 goals one year, but isn't a patch on Carey.

I doubt a single coach in the league at the time would have chosen Ablett over Carey.

Correct Ablett was 10 years older.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Clearly not old enough to remember how easy to beat his team was, once Barry Stoneham got injured.

They didn’t win a premiership with Ablett, Brownless, Hocking, Barnes, Couch, Bairstow, Pickers, Hinkley and Darcy.

All very good to great footballers.

the only explanation is Ablett is a bit overrated because IMO, had Carey been at CHF, they’d have won 1989, 1992 & possibly 1993 IMO.

I’m biased of course, but Micky Martyn beat him a lot.

Lol, why would you put Darcy in there? An undersized battling defender. Geelong's defence in those days was average and most of the others you mentioned used to go missing. Brownless was a good finals performer. Hocking was no good in gf's. Bairstow had 2 direct opponents win Norm Smith Medals on him. Hinkley was AA and b&f in '92, he had 14 touches in the 1992 gf and 10 and 8 in both 1994 and 1995. A defender who couldn't get a touch in 2 beltings.

Ablett wasn't Geelong's problem it was the majority of the rest of the team who continually failed to show up.

Greg Williams is the one they needed to stay , put him in '89 and '92 and imo Geelong win both, imo.

 

[Trav 20]

You're a hard marker. Ablett played in 16 finals, 11 of them over the age of 30.

3.3
7.7
8.5
9.1

0.0 (was the year he retired and came back, got injured)

5.1
4.5
4.2
3.1

6.6
6.3
3.0
1.2

4.1
0.3

1.3 (35 years of age, last game)

That's a good finals record.

I do note though that Geelong fans constantly reference Ablett when he was ''over 30'', as though it's used to explain a poor performance.

He was 4xAA when he was over 30.

All his Coleman Medals and 100+ goals in a season were when he was over 30.

One could argue his best body of work was when he was over 30. Although, I recall how good he was in his 20s. The greatest half-forward flanker the game has seen.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Micky martyn beat him twice when his body was f*** at the end of the season at the age of 33 and 35. Ablett couldnt even run or jump at that point.

what was carey doing at 33 and 35 let alone at the end of a long season? At 32 he was already a has been at the crows. At 33 he was a dud. At 34 he was retired. But yeah talk up those two martyn wins against a player who couldnt run and jump at the end of the season at 33 and 35.

ablett kicked a couple of big bags on martyn when he could actually move.

10.6 and 7.6

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

That's a good finals record.

I do note though that Geelong fans constantly reference Ablett when he was ''over 30'', as though it's used to explain a poor performance.

He was 4xAA when he was over 30.

All his Coleman Medals and 100+ goals in a season were when he was over 30.

One could argue his best body of work was when he was over 30. Although, I recall how good he was in his 20s. The greatest half-forward flanker the game has seen.

AA's were named based on h&a form. Ablett was cooked by the end of finals.

Ablett was a much better footballer in his 20s, he played up the ground and was lighter. He was breathtaking.