Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
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Nothing gets past you SJ...
Resource Geelong Football Club history
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The AFL Record Season Guide (official statistical history of the AFL) has taken to placing Richmond last in 1916 to remove the apparent anomaly of Fitzroy being both the Premier and the so-called 'wooden-spooner' (a position with no actual official status). The convention is that the team that finishes last of the ladder after the first round of matches ('home and away' or 'home and home' as they were called in 1916) is the recipient of the 'wooden spoon'*. However, in 1916 with only 4 teams competing, the season results after the finals put Fitzroy on 5 wins and a draw ahead of Richmond with just 5 wins for the season.
The 1916 season nearly didn't go ahead as a majority of the clubs believed that it was not 'patriotic' to continue the competition while the Empire was at war** (the concept of 'Australia' was not very developed at the time and most people saw their primary allegiance to the King and the British Empire). Some of the clubs also believed that the rising toll of lives in the war would mean that they would have more difficulty in fielding a team as more players enlisted.
The four clubs that wanted to continue (Carlton, Collingwood, Fitzroy and Richmond) threatened to form a breakaway competition if the League would not agree to them playing under the auspices of the League. A compromise was reached for a limited season of 12 rounds with gate-takings going to 'patriotic' (war) funds with the premiership decided by a finals series with all 4 teams competing.
There was also some feeling in the community that working class and particularly Irish Catholic connections influenced the clubs that kept playing. Only weeks before the start of the 1916 football season, republicans in Ireland had staged a rebellion against British rule and oppression. The rebellion was brutally put down with troops from Australia among those used by the British.
Fitzroy had played in the 1915 finals and started the season with a win over reigning premiers Carlton, but after another win and a draw, lost its nine remaining matches before the finals. Carlton was easily the best-performed team of the first round of matches and finished on top of the ladder three and half games clear of Collingwood.
Under the finals system of the time only the team on top of the ladder had a double chance and to win the flag, you had to beat them. In its first final Fitzroy reversed an 18-point loss to Collingwood in last round of the season to a 6-point win, while Carlton struggled to overcome Richmond by 3 points. Fitzroy now had to defeat Carlton in consecutive matches to win the premiership. As Carlton faded (they also had some injury worries), Fitzroy grew in confidence to win comfortably in the preliminary final by 23 points and in the grand final by 29 points. Fitzroy and Carlton each won three matches against each other during the season with Carlton in combined results scoring 25 more points - but Fitzroy won when it mattered. (There have been quite a few premiers with weaker season results against the runners-up than Fitzroy 1916.)
See: http://www.users.on.net/~rogersresu...rs_Runnersup_Season/Prem_RU_season_result.htm
* Has its origin as a 'booby prize' awarded by the students of Cambridge University to the man who achieved the lowest exam marks but still earned a third-class degree.
** This was Geelong’s primary reason for withdrawing but they came back in 1917 when it was feared that it they didn’t, they might not ever get back. (A number of the Melbourne clubs resented having to travel to Geelong for matches.)
- Mar 6, 2014
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Melbourne clubs still moan about having to travel to Geelong for games
Seems like nothing has changed!
Pardon my quick intrusion from across the border. My post is not laden with venom or malice coz you have been given
enough of that lately. No,my post on this thread is a thank you and a salute to the GFC.
On this day in 1966 a child was born in country Victoria. A child who was to grace and bring honour to both our clubs.
The child was christened Kenneth Hinkley and I'm sure you will join us at Port in wishing him many happy returns.
Gotta soft spot for you guys that goes way back to a very dear Aunt of mine whom we visited often at her home in Colac.
A Borthwick by name and an angel at heart she was a devoted Geelong supporter and as such I've followed your clubs
fortunes ever since.
All the best for 2016
enough of that lately. No,my post on this thread is a thank you and a salute to the GFC.
On this day in 1966 a child was born in country Victoria. A child who was to grace and bring honour to both our clubs.
The child was christened Kenneth Hinkley and I'm sure you will join us at Port in wishing him many happy returns.
Gotta soft spot for you guys that goes way back to a very dear Aunt of mine whom we visited often at her home in Colac.
A Borthwick by name and an angel at heart she was a devoted Geelong supporter and as such I've followed your clubs
fortunes ever since.
All the best for 2016
thejester
Norm Smith Medallist
Veteran
BigFooty Official Draft Tipping Competition
Geelong Cats - Gryan Miers Player Sponsor 2018
Geelong Cats - Sam Simpson Player Sponsor 2017
Geelong Cats - Nakia Cockatoo Player Sponsor 2016
Geelong Cats - Nakia Cockatoo Player Sponsor 2015
Geelong Cats - Travis Varcoe 2014 Player Sponsor
Podcaster
- Apr 22, 2006
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http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2015-09-30/gallery-cats-gf-record-covers
We often pot them, but gotta give credit to the club media people for trotting out some interesting material the last week or so.
We often pot them, but gotta give credit to the club media people for trotting out some interesting material the last week or so.
thejester your sig has eerily familiar overtones of J Nicholson in "A Few Good Men"
but hey what would I know. Hope your club gets what it needs/wants in the draft.
Here in SA we at Port haven't warmed to Paddy Dee but that's because he played in the wrong jumper.
Of course the lad can play and even better now that he lowers his eyes more often.
Anyway enough of me on your board,any more and it will get a bit weird.
Thanks for your indulgence.
but hey what would I know. Hope your club gets what it needs/wants in the draft.
Here in SA we at Port haven't warmed to Paddy Dee but that's because he played in the wrong jumper.
Of course the lad can play and even better now that he lowers his eyes more often.
Anyway enough of me on your board,any more and it will get a bit weird.
Thanks for your indulgence.
thejester
Norm Smith Medallist
Veteran
BigFooty Official Draft Tipping Competition
Geelong Cats - Gryan Miers Player Sponsor 2018
Geelong Cats - Sam Simpson Player Sponsor 2017
Geelong Cats - Nakia Cockatoo Player Sponsor 2016
Geelong Cats - Nakia Cockatoo Player Sponsor 2015
Geelong Cats - Travis Varcoe 2014 Player Sponsor
Podcaster
- Apr 22, 2006
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If you click on it, those overtones get even eerier
- Moderator
- #284
That's the first time I've seen footage of a place kick in an Aussie rules game. So they did exist.
one eyed cat
Team Captain
Being this about History, can some one tell me why VFA premierships are not counted. The reason surely couldn't be because it would be unfair to teams that joined in the VFL, if this was the reason then surely they would scrub out all the VFL Premierships on the same grounds that it would be equally unfair on the clubs that joined when they called it the AFL. The VFA was a genuine competition with many G/Fs, that now mean nothing to the AFL. this is very disrespectful to all those players who are probably forgotten by many. I bet if you asked a younger Cats fan how many G/Fs the Cats have won they would answer 9, when the real answer is 16, which would by the way put the Cats 3rd on the list of most G/F wins. I believe Carter is fighting the Afl on this, hope he never stops reminding them.
SJ
Premium Platinum
- Thread starter
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"Counted"? "Counted" to what?
They are (or should be) "counted" by all clubs that participated in the VFA at the time.
They should not be "counted" by a rival organisation (the VFL/AFL) as they have nothing to do with that competition.
I have posted about this a number of times before. It doesn't help that the AFL these days wears two hats simultaneously:
1. It runs the competition known as the Australian Football League. Under this umbrella, Challenge Cup premierships (1870-1876) and VFA premierships (1877-1896) should never be included as a part of VFL/AFL history.
2. It also now runs the sport of Australian football via the AFL Commission. Under this umbrella, it should be doing far more to acknowledge the history of Australian football everywhere outside the VFL/AFL est. 1897.
Note that the drivers of each of these responsibilities are actually conflicting, and that the AFL often picks and chooses when it wants to wear them.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
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SJ
Premium Platinum
- Thread starter
- #288
But "included" in what? History?It's similarly why it's laughable when Port in particular scream about their SANFL flags being included. Can't happen as there'd be years with 2 official premiers. No question we as a club should recognise them and I'd even like them displayed on the stands like our VFL/AFL ones are.
There were two official premiers.
1914 SANFL premiers: Port Adelaide
1914 VFL premiers: Carlton
We could keep going!
1914 VFA premiers: North Melbourne
Agree completely on the Premiership Stand. I have actually heard from the club that they are rectifying it.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
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one eyed cat
Team Captain
Adjustments to Geelong's historical player records.
Due to some new research the AFL will be correcting the following:
Jack Charles Ross (of the 'Ross-Drew' Stand at KP) did not play for Geelong in 1919.
(His game total is now 33 not 35 as his first was in round 2 1920 vs Collingwood.)
A 'Jack W. Ross' was the the 'Ross' who played two games for Geelong in 1919.
It has been established that J.C. Ross was on a troopship somewhere between England
and Australia when he was supposed to have been playing for Geelong in rounds 6 and 7 of
1919.
Also Percy Martini (1909-20) is credited with one extra game in 1919 to bring his total to 149.
Harry Marsham (1909-19) has had his game total reduced from 129 to 128.
A correction was discovered in the Geelong Advertiser during the research into Jack Ross.
Due to some new research the AFL will be correcting the following:
Jack Charles Ross (of the 'Ross-Drew' Stand at KP) did not play for Geelong in 1919.
(His game total is now 33 not 35 as his first was in round 2 1920 vs Collingwood.)
A 'Jack W. Ross' was the the 'Ross' who played two games for Geelong in 1919.
It has been established that J.C. Ross was on a troopship somewhere between England
and Australia when he was supposed to have been playing for Geelong in rounds 6 and 7 of
1919.
Also Percy Martini (1909-20) is credited with one extra game in 1919 to bring his total to 149.
Harry Marsham (1909-19) has had his game total reduced from 129 to 128.
A correction was discovered in the Geelong Advertiser during the research into Jack Ross.
Willo_
Trust the Process
- Apr 27, 2010
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Although it is generally accepted that the 1896 Victorian Football Association premiership was the first decided by a final 'play-off' after Collingwood and Sth Melbourne ended the season on equal wins, in 1878 there was a similar situation.
There was in effect a final match between Geelong and Melbourne to decide the VFA premiership that year.
See: http://www.thegapchessclub.org.au/vfa/1878.htm
Although Geelong won convincingly by 4 goals it not was accepted by all Melbourne supporters that Geelong were Premiers as they had played significantly fewer matches than Melbourne.
The general consensus was however that Geelong were the Premier team that season - although the status was not as clearly defined at the time as it is today. It therefore could be argued that Geelong won 7 VFA Premierships including one 'Grand Final'.
One of the reason's for forming a new competition in 1897 in opposition to the VFA was the difficulty of getting the VFA to agree to reforms such as how the Premiership would be decided.
Yeah, it's a combination of different traditions trying to fit into one history.
We look at 1897 as "year 0" probably because it's been reported that way forever. In a similar way, for a long time all finals 'records' were anchored from 1931 when the McIntyre final four came into effect*. If we're talking VFL/AFL as you say, it's fair enough. But each club's history is a different thing.
Geelong VFL premierships: 6
Geelong AFL premierships: 3
Geelong VFL/AFL premierships: 9
Geelong Football Club premierships: 16
(* The culmination of this amalgam of laziness and absence of research was the 1985 Grand final. The commentators were quite chuffed to see Brereton break the record for most goals in a Grand final, except of course his 8 goals was still short of Gordon Coventry's 9 goals in 1928. But that was before 1931, so, out of sight, out of history. It's a great thing that fans care enough now to actually research the history.)
Technically in 1985 the match that Coventry kicked 9 goals in was not a 'grand final', as in 1928 because Collingwood (which finished top of the ladder) won both its semi-final (replayed after a draw) vs Melbourne and the subsequent final vs Richmond there was no need of a 'grand final' that year to decide the Premiership.
In more recent times the AFL has designated all final matches played 1901-30 that decided the Premiership as 'Grand Finals' whether it was the 3rd or 4th match of the series. All recent AFL Record Season Guides (the official statistical history of the AFL) credit Coventry's 1928 nine goals along with Ablett Snr's nine in 1989 as the record tally for a Grand Final. (Coventry's seven goals in the 1930 Grand Final are also credited as the equal 3rd highest.)
It is true that the League's 'year books' published in the 1980's (probably for reasons of space) only gave details of finals series from 1931 onward. However it is only from the 1980s that detailed research has been undertaken to make the records of the AFL complete from 1897* to the present (work that continues).
* The AFL like the Christian calendar had no year 'zero' (we remember the mathematically challenged believing that 2000 was the first year of the 21st century and not the last of the 20th), so 1897 is season one and 2015 was season 119.
Finally as I have said elsewhere on a number of occasions, the division of Premierships won under the one continuous controlling body 1897-2015 into 'VFL' and 'AFL' Premierships should be avoided. The competition didn't start afresh with the alteration to the name in 1990. All Premierships won 1897-2015 have equal status, dividing them into categories is a conceit of supporters of clubs more recently having joined the League. It is a nonsense.
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The first 'Brownlow' Stand.
MEMORIAL GRANDSTAND AT GEELONG FOOTBALL OVAL.
The above Grandstand is to be erected as a Memorial to two of Geelong’s well known pioneers and enthusiasts in all local sporting activities, particularly in football circles, the late Henry Young and Charles Brownlow, the former being committeeman and captain for many years, and the latter a playing member in the early eighties and secretary for over thirty-five years.
The building as a whole has been designed with a view towards utility and will provide comfortable seating accommodation in the stand for over 300 persons this seating having been arranged so that each person shall nave an uninterrupted view of the Oval and its environs. Tho whole area of the Basement will be subdivided into various compartments, comprising ladies' cloakroom, tearoom, and refreshment cafe. The building which is to be built of brick with cement dressings, will be covered with an iron roof with decorative louvre vent scheme, with terminal flagpoles at ends, and wide spreading eaves, supported on curved tee iron brackets. A close boarded balustrade continuous throughout tho frontage, and in the centre a memorial tablet bearing the names of Messrs. Henry Young and Charles Brownlow, will be placed in a conspicuous position.
The standing space between stand end playing arena will be banked up, so that a good view of the Oval and play may be obtained from any point. The building has been designed by Messrs. Laird and Buchan, F.R.V.I.A., who are now inviting tenders, the same being returnable on Tuesday, 16th inst.
Geelong Advertiser
6 December 1924.
Fire was the night of 30 May 1928. A search on Trove reveals that it was news all around Australia from the Cairns Post to the Sunday Times in Perth which included it in its 'World's News in Brief' section (they were only a few years away from voting in favour of seceding from the Australian Federation).With thanks to Boyle's Football Photos:
Detailed account is in the Melbourne Age. http://goo.gl/k0CCTC
Some of the gaps in the Club's history are a result of this fire.
