Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[STPer18]

I look at it like this, before the stand rule, and after the stand rule, so it's 3>3>1, the 1 caused by less pressure in the game, that means we're talking about different games.

BR = Before Richmond
AR = After Richmond

Oh Tone, you've outdone yourself this time.

 

[Tiger 1920]

BR = Before Richmond
AR = After Richmond

Oh Tone, you've outdone yourself this time.

Before the emasculation, and after the emasculation, is better in my opinion.

 

[blaisee]

Lets have dip at this one.

At this time of Phaty is shy of 1200 posts This indicates an obsession with Richmond. Phaty denies this is rivalry.

The denial being somewhat conflicting with the definition of rivalry. Phaty suffering from delusion (bordering lying) here.

Executive summary:

I am an obsessive delusional in denial.

Of course it is not a rivalry

Rivalry by definition requires Geelong to have imposed some kinda pain have won a game that matters against Richmond

And they haven’t and didn’t in fact Richmond won three finals in a row against Geelong and then ending up winning the flag three times

So no it is not a rivalry because the hate and Envy and respect only goes one way and that up the highway and into punt road

That is why they had to change the rules

And that is why they got grigg

But it stilll did not work against Richmond

It did not work because Richmond owns Geelong and every Geelong fan knows this is true deep in their hearts and it hurts them bad .

 

[Tiger 1920]

It’s like a Chris Scott press conference when he used to tell us how he worked out Richmond and that he was going to do us slowly

I never heard him say that but I believe ya that he said it.

I did hear him say in 2021 that he figured out how to beat Richmond when there was less pressure in the game.

 

[STPer18]

And you are the reason why I keep coming back to this thread , you are the only Geelong fan not yet on my ignore list but watching you cope is an endless stream of entertainment I cannot bring myself to do it yet while you are so triggered

It’s like a Chris Scott press conference when he used to tell us how he worked out Richmond and that he was going to do us slowly

We are still waiting brah lol

Calls others triggered while he created his very own virtual safe space by blocking every Geelong poster. I've wondered why he failed to respond to my questions about why he never followed through on his promise to delete his account if Tom Stewart made the AA team. Five AAs later and not a peep.

 

[smasha]

BC,before Cotchin.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What else can explain our finals records?

Gee, I’m not sure.

Is it that all finals are played against other finals teams?

Sydney have a 13-13 record under Longmire.
Geelong have a 14-16 record under Scott. Both have spent the majority of that time playing other top 4 teams, and it actually drops to 14-15 when you remove the only Geelong final we played.

It’s just funny how they are the two best travelling teams across that entire period isn’t it?

So, um, yeah, not sure your theory holds any weight beyond being a whole lot of your usual bullshit.

1 of Longmire’s grand final floggings was AGAINST GEELONG. Another loss was to the Dogs who frankly got a little bit lucky and play the ground just as infrequently as the Swans do, really.

If this stupid theory had any weight whatsoever, both teams would be easybeats when they travel. They aren’t. They have been the two best travelling teams over a long, long time.

When you continually make finals, and continually make the top four, you play other good teams. You are continually in a position to lose to them and yes, if you’re good enough at the time, to beat them.

We haven’t been good enough, on a lot of occasions, to beat those sides we have played. When a ground beats us, I’ll let you know.


Even the Tigers themselves who’s finals record was outstanding during their peak have a 10-7 record under Hardwick….. only went 2-3 in finals away from the MCG when you weren’t playing a neutral opponent. Was that the venue beating you or the opposition?

Chris Scott inherited a 5th year dynasty team in his first year. Full credit, they went 3-0 in finals all v other top 4 teams.

Since then Geelong's finals record v teams who finished the finals top 4 is abysmal.

5 wins 15 losses.

If you include the inherited dynasty team year of 2011 the C Scott-Geelong record in finals against teams finishing the season top 4 is 8w 15l.

But remove the dynasty as nobody is denying Geelong were genuinely the best team in the competition overall from 2007-11. This is the only multi-year period in at least the lst 60 years this can be said to be true.

So let's acknowledge the Cats were the genuine article as a top 4 team 2007-11. But from 1980 on, this is the Geelol finals record v teams who at least made a Preliminary Final....

11 wins 33 losses.

If you also remove the other year the Cats were clearly the best team, in 2022, it is 8w 33l in finals since 1980 v teams who at least made it to PF stage.

Why remove those years where the Cats were the best team? Because this is not where they have gained their reputation as the best performed team in the AFL era. Eagles, Hawks, Lions have similar or more years where they are seen as the best team in the competition. So this doesn't set the Cats apart. Where they differentiate themselves is with these constant opportunities they get to beat teams who make at least PF stage in finals during the years the Cats are not seen as the best team in the AFL.

In most of those seasons the Cats are top 4 imposters. Their 8w 33l finals record in those games shows that. It is the record you would probably expect about an average AFL team to have against the same opponents. Which suggests the Cats are constantly getting these opportunities to beat the best teams in finals way moreso than other average level AFL teams. Why? It is probably largely due to their cheat ground.

 

[STPer18]

"If you remove the wins and look at only the losses..."

 

[Mr Meow]

What do Geelong and Sydney have in common? They both play on weirdly shaped and dinky little grounds that guarantee them great H&A records, but consign them to pedestrian finals records.

Do we really think it’s a coincidence the 2 x teams playing on dinky little grounds have been the two teams to be clearly the best at H&A for so long?

What else can explain their finals records during the same era of H&A dominance that is almost embarrassing in comparison to H&A output?

I mean Chris Scott is a very good coach …. But H&A win-loss of 70+ % and finals win-loss of 45%…

And Horse has 12 years of finals out of 14, but 1 x GF win out of 5 and 3 of those losses absolute floggings.

Geelong and Sydney achieve inflated H&A finishes due to advantageous H&A fixtures … finals performances can’t spell this out any clearer when they get found out by quality teams on proper grounds year after year after year.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Another massive whinge from you. It's odd, you never used to be quite this salty. I guess some lean years can jade a person.

 

[PhatBoy]

Chris Scott inherited a 5th year dynasty team in his first year. Full credit, they went 3-0 in finals all v other top 4 teams.

Since then Geelong's finals record v teams who finished the finals top 4 is abysmal.

5 wins 15 losses.

If you include the inherited dynasty team year of 2011 the C Scott-Geelong record in finals against teams finishing the season top 4 is 8w 15l.

But remove the dynasty as nobody is denying Geelong were genuinely the best team in the competition overall from 2007-11. This is the only multi-year period in at least the lst 60 years this can be said to be true.

So let's acknowledge the Cats were the genuine article as a top 4 team 2007-11. But from 1980 on, this is the Geelol finals record v teams who at least made a Preliminary Final....

11 wins 33 losses.

If you also remove the other year the Cats were clearly the best team, in 2022, it is 8w 33l in finals since 1980 v teams who at least made it to PF stage.

Why remove those years where the Cats were the best team? Because this is not where they have gained their reputation as the best performed team in the AFL era. Eagles, Hawks, Lions have similar or more years where they are seen as the best team in the competition. So this doesn't set the Cats apart. Where they differentiate themselves is with these constant opportunities they get to beat teams who make at least PF stage in finals during the years the Cats are not seen as the best team in the AFL.

In most of those seasons the Cats are top 4 imposters. Their 8w 33l finals record in those games shows that. It is the record you would probably expect about an average AFL team to have against the same opponents. Which suggests the Cats are constantly getting these opportunities to beat the best teams in finals way moreso than other average level AFL teams. Why? It is probably largely due to their cheat ground.

Or it just suggests we didn’t play very well in those games and got beaten by better teams.
Like, I dunno, say, 2019 when, um, we had no trouble with the shape of the MCG when we beat you there during the home and away season.

But then what - we suddenly forgot what its dimensions were on PF night and started kicking the ball 180 degrees the other direction and targeted Tigers players instead and started saying ‘Sorry Tom, I thought Jack Riewoldt was you. The bigger boundaries confused me.’

I’ll take data sets spread out over 23-match seasons year after year over yours thanks.

Btw, teams who ‘finished the finals’ top four? Could you try any harder to manipulate figures

Just work out the record against top four sides ffs

 

[All Aust]

Tony? Tony, that you?! Give us a 3>4 for old times' sake!

Breaching banter and site rules here?

 

[STPer18]

Breaching banter and site rules here?

Yes our good friend Username Anthony and Tony Serdar has resurfaced with yet another ban evading account, but I promise not to tell the mods if you don't!

So what, one flag does not make a minor dynasty.

One flag does not make a minor dynasty, you know this. A minor dynasty is 4 flags (with no b2b) in 18 seasons.

5 flags in 14 seasons is your proper dynasty.

None.

And how long did we not play in one?

But they beat Collingwood at the MCG in a PF after Collingwood beat us the season before when we had the flu. If they could beat Collingwood, why not us?

That's the one that was never in doubt I'll give you that.

But during those 4 flags I never heard anyone say about Geelong: "it's not just the victory, it's the quality of the football."

Favourable circumstances with the father son rule of the day helped Geelong assemble a good list, some may even say that Geelong won 3 flags on talent alone.

If we can all agree that it's not in the victory only, but in the way of the victory that the marvel is greater, it's not that hard to believe that Richmond's 3 flags gave the footy world more to marvel at, as Bruce said as if he had never seen anything like it before, "it's not just the victory (Bruce has seen many victories), it's the quality of the football."

How much did you Geelong supporters love your teams quicker Richmond style ball movement after 2020, which for Geelong was caused by there being less pressure in the game, and not by Chris Scott's coaching, but by Hocking's rule change? Just what am I supposed to be marvelling at? How Richmond's quick ball movement won a flag for Geelong

 

[Mr Meow]

Yes our good friend Username Anthony and Tony Serdar has resurfaced with yet another ban evading account, but I promise not to tell the mods if you don't!

Mental illness is the only explanation for making upwards of 10 accounts to type the same essays about their club being emasculated/ruined by a rule change.

 

[Tiger 1920]

I promise not to tell the mods if you don't!

They already know I'm here, just yesterday that moron Ghost Patrol banned me instantly, as if he was lying in wait for me, I couldn't even get a comment off.

 

[Tiger 1920]

Mental illness is the only explanation for making upwards of 10 accounts to type the same essays about their club being emasculated/ruined by a rule change.

It's not the only explanation.

Maybe mental illness is the explanation that you Geelong fans continue to seek the approval of the Richmond fans for what you did in '22, because someone of sound mind would know that that's not possible?

 

[PhatBoy]

Same year - 2019 - we lost another final at the MCG…. Wait for it….
Against Collingwood. Who we beat there that year. Ground shape didn’t seem to worry us that time.

Again, did we forget how to navigate it between the first time we beat them and second time around when we lost to them?

What about 2018 when we were knocked out by Melbourne at the MCG?
Oh yeah - we beat them twice. Once at KP, and once at the MCG. Both times by less than a kick. If I didn’t know better I’d say the sides were closely matched and we just ran out of puff when they turned a 3 point 3qt lead into a 29 point win. Funny how we got the dimensions right for three quarters then got lost in the fourth

2017 we lost to the Tigers fair and square in the only game we played against you at the MCG, a final.
We met Adelaide in Adelaide both times and lost. They were the minor premiers and were way too good both times. In between we played Sydney at the MCG where it’s amazing either team managed to find their way through the tunnel onto the ground

In 2016 we beat the Hawks at the MCG in a final, and earlier in the season. Boy howdy that was a struggle what with the boundary lines and the grandstands etc. we didn’t know what we were doing. I think it was just 100 or so rushed behinds that got us home both times. Sydney hammered us in the prelim.

2014 we lost to North and to Hawthorn in the finals.
Yet managed to beat Hawthorn once during the season at the MCG, and North at Docklands which, while not identical, is certainly different to KP. If anything, WE play more at the MCG than the Roos.

In 2013 we lost to Fremantle… in Geelong.
We beat Port Adelaide in Melbourne, and we lost to Hawthorn at the MCG….. where we’d beaten them twice that year.

In 2012 we lost to Fremantle at the MCG, where again, we play far more frequently.

Now, before you post your usual ‘can someone make sense of this’ bullshit that you post whenever someone puts up facts that you don’t like reading, just take a moment to take this in:


Geelong fans know, and have long, long accepted, that we have not had a brilliant finals record over the last 10 years. We follow the game, we’ve seen what happens. However, the large majority of us are prepared to actually do what grown ups do and just say ‘you know what? We were beaten by a better side.’ Every year two teams in the top four lose two finals. If we keep making the top four, there’s a possibility that it can be us each year.
If the grounds were beating us, we wouldn’t be beating those teams at those venues in home and away games. But we do.

Try and twist it however you want.

You’ve spent years telling anyone who’ll listen how magnificent your team is and how shit ours is/was/whatever.

Maybe stop letting the grounds you beat us on take the credit for the result if you’re so clever.

 

[PhatBoy]

It's not the only explanation.

Maybe mental illness is the explanation that you Geelong fans continue to seek the approval of the Richmond fans for what you did in '22, because someone of sound mind would know that that's not possible?

What approval do we need? We won the comp.

 

[All Aust]

Yes our good friend Username Anthony and Tony Serdar has resurfaced with yet another ban evading account, but I promise not to tell the mods if you don't!

Cool.

 

[Tiger 1920]

What approval do we need?

Remember we're talking about the '22 flag

Approve -
officially agree to or accept as satisfactory.
to speak or think favorably of; pronounce or consider agreeable or good; judge favorably.

Sorry Geelong fans, go seek your approval elsewhere.

2022*

*less pressure in the game

 

[PhatBoy]

Remember we're talking about the '22 flag

Approve -
officially agree to or accept as satisfactory.
to speak or think favorably of; pronounce or consider agreeable or good; judge favorably.

Sorry Geelong fans, go seek your approval elsewhere.

2022*

*less pressure in the game

Oh right. So the other 17 teams… were? Or…. Weren’t, playing under the same rules as us?

Because if they…. Were…. Then I’m not sure I can just take your word on this.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Or it just suggests we didn’t play very well in those games and got beaten by better teams.
Like, I dunno, say, 2019 when, um, we had no trouble with the shape of the MCG when we beat you there during the home and away season.

But then what - we suddenly forgot what its dimensions were on PF night and started kicking the ball 180 degrees the other direction and targeted Tigers players instead and started saying ‘Sorry Tom, I thought Jack Riewoldt was you. The bigger boundaries confused me.’

I’ll take data sets spread out over 23-match seasons year after year over yours thanks.

Btw, teams who ‘finished the finals’ top four? Could you try any harder to manipulate figures

Just work out the record against top four sides ffs

That is exactly what I did. Worked out the record against teams who proved to be in the best 4 in the AFL. Weird statement from you.

Who has said you have any trouble with the shape & dimensions of the MCG? How could you? You play a third of your games there.

In finals during 2007-11 period & 2022 when Geelong are seen as having been the bst team in the AFL overall your ials record v other top 4 teams is:

14w 3l

This is excellent, but not special whe put next to the clubs like Eagles, Lions, Hawks & Tigers in the periods those clubs dominated to win 4, 4, 5 & 3 flags respectively during the national competition era.


But the record outside that, with 8w 33l against top 4 teams in finals during all the other years when the Cats were mainly finishing the home & away season in the double chance positions, clearly shows a team operating beyond its station in September.

 

[Mr Meow]

That is exactly what I did. Worked out the record against teams who proved to be in the best 4 in the AFL. Weird statement from you.

Who has said you have any trouble with the shape & dimensions of the MCG? How could you? You play a third of your games there.

In finals during 2007-11 period & 2022 when Geelong are seen as having been the bst team in the AFL overall your ials record v other top 4 teams is:

14w 3l

This is excellent, but not special whe put next to the clubs like Eagles, Lions, Hawks & Tigers in the periods those clubs dominated to win 4, 4, 5 & 3 flags respectively during the national competition era.


But the record outside that, with 8w 33l against top 4 teams in finals during all the other years when the Cats were mainly finishing the home & away season in the double chance positions, clearly shows a team operating beyond its station in September.

Tigers don't belong in that group.

4 flags or more in the national era is where we draw the line.

When Richmond win their next flag, if it is before you perish, then get back to us.

 

[PhatBoy]

That is exactly what I did. Worked out the record against teams who proved to be in the best 4 in the AFL. Weird statement from you.

Who has said you have any trouble with the shape & dimensions of the MCG? How could you? You play a third of your games there.

In finals during 2007-11 period & 2022 when Geelong are seen as having been the bst team in the AFL overall your ials record v other top 4 teams is:

14w 3l

This is excellent, but not special whe put next to the clubs like Eagles, Lions, Hawks & Tigers in the periods those clubs dominated to win 4, 4, 5 & 3 flags respectively during the national competition era.


But the record outside that, with 8w 33l against top 4 teams in finals during all the other years when the Cats were mainly finishing the home & away season in the double chance positions, clearly shows a team operating beyond its station in September.

Are you actually going to address the point or keep ignoring it.

Answer the question.

Why did the ground matter when we lost games in finals to certain teams but we could beat them at those venues in the regular season.

Doesn’t that instantly tell you that ground dimensions play no role in it.

How can a grown man, one older than me, be so inept at accepting - not even for his OWN team mind you, that’s the funniest part - that a team can just, plain, be outplayed?

 

[PhatBoy]

The best part about all of this is that the most diametrically opposed ground to KP is the SCG, and the other most consistently good opposition side in the Chris Scott era has been Sydney. It’s also interstate. And we STILL have a 50 per cent win rate there.

• strong opponent
• long way from home
• strange dimensions relative to home

And we manage to square the ledger

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Here is another way to show the Cats are being thrown into the home & away seasons.

Teams have:

a) a fiishing position on the h&a ladder, then those teams who make finals have
b) a finishing position post finals.

Let's compare the 2 markers for Geelonn over the last 45 seasons.

1980 h&a 2nd, post finals 3rd
1981 3rd, 3rd
1989 3rd, 2nd
1991 2nd, 3rd
1992 1st, 2nd
1994 4th, 2nd
1995 2nd, 2nd
1996 7th, 7th
1997 2nd, 5th

----------------------

2000 5th, 7th
2004 4th, 4th
2005 6th, 5th
2007 1st, 1st
2008 1st, 2nd
2009 2nd, 1st
2010 2nd, 3rd
2011 2nd, 1st
2012 6th, 7th
2013 2nd, 3rd
2014 3rd, 5th
2016 2nd, 3rd
2017 2nd, 3rd
2018 8th, 8th
2019 1st, 3rd
2020 Does not apply as level draw, only 3 games @ KP, Cats cheated soft cap to gain advantage
2021 3rd, 4th
2022 1st, 1st
2024 3rd, 4th



So overall from 27 relevant finals qualifications:

Cats do better in finals than h&a: 5 times
Cats do worse in finals than h&a: 15 times
Cats finish in the same position at both stages: 7 times

5-15-7

Since Victorian ground rationalisation, when the Cats h&a advantages became pronounced over most other Vic teams, it is:

3-11-4

Cats do better in the h&a season basically 4 times more often than they do better in finals. Tells us all we need to know about why they "finish top 4 year after year." Because the years they are a fringe top 8 level team they still finish top 4.