General AFL Discussion #8 - Carlton Supporters ONLY !!!

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The only time our midfield has been tested - we lost. I suspect harsher tests are coming soon enough. Talk of a top four finish or better as a 'given' is premature I think right now- based on our form to date.

If we regain the clearance form we displayed against an undermanned Collingwood - we are probably the hardest team to beat. If we manage the tall target like we did ( Cloke ) we become (maybe) the team to beat.

If we let other teams give us the taps and we lose the clearances - we are back in the pack.

The St Kilda match will test us exactly where we need to be tested - in clearances against quality and how we handle the bomb to quality tall targets. This game is great preparation for a game against Adelaide. Win these two games and we learn a lot more about where exactly our game is at. After which longer term predictions may have more than just supporter 'comfort value'.

Hope?

Wouldn't it be great to see someone in our team have a break-out year and rise to new heights. It was gunna be Gibbs. I was hoping to see him and Yarron lift to new levels. Hampson seems to be the guy providing that unexpected ray of sunshine - a new factor X for us

I dont really care what Essendon are doing. Bliss for me would be to see us in the top 4 with Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast. Let the teams below scrag each other to death .
 
Peete said:
The only time our midfield has been tested - we lost. I suspect harsher tests are coming soon enough. Talk of a top four finish or better as a 'given' is premature I think right now- based on our form to date.

If we regain the clearance form we displayed against an undermanned Collingwood - we are probably the hardest team to beat. If we manage the tall target like we did ( Cloke ) we become (maybe) the team to beat.

If we let other teams give us the taps and we lose the clearances - we are back in the pack.

The St Kilda match will test us exactly where we need to be tested - in clearances against quality and how we handle the bomb to quality tall targets. This game is great preparation for a game against Adelaide. Win these two games and we learn a lot more about where exactly our game is at. After which longer term predictions may have more than just supporter 'comfort value'.

Hope?

Wouldn't it be great to see someone in our team have a break-out year and rise to new heights. It was gunna be Gibbs. I was hoping to see him and Yarron lift to new levels. Hampson seems to be the guy providing that unexpected ray of sunshine - a new factor X for us

I dont really care what Essendon are doing. Bliss for me would be to see us in the top 4 with Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast. Let the teams below scrag each other to death .
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False. Why would it be that our midfield was tested v Ess but not tested v Collingwood. Pies midfield is vastly superior to Essendons and we passed that test with flying colors. Just because we win does not mean the midfield did not face a stern test. In fact I would counter that every time we win, it is entirely because our midfield passed the test placed on them that day.
 

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40yearBLUE said:
Yep, if you go back to the vent threads after the losses to them over the past few years, these are the ones I am most annoyed about, last year the Essendon draw annoyed me more than the WC loss because we knew WC were a quality (not an elite elite quality quality :rolleyes::D) side so losing too them was not a disgrace (although the WB loss was). So we had 1 very poor game against the bombers and a disgraceful loss to WB. So far this year we have the one against the bombers again. I cant think of too many wins last year that were not regulation. In other words we didnt beat any teams we shouldnt have and beat most of the teams we should have, but lost some we shouldnt too to blot that copybook, a sure sign of a not quite mature team.
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See, you're supposed to be 40 but you act like a 5 year old. Is it really too hard for you to understand that elite teams are the flag contenders and the quality sides are those that will most likely make the 8 and are capable of upsetting the elite teams? The average teams are those that are not quite the worst but aren't good enough to make finals and the shit teams are those that will struggle to win most games unless they play another team in that category.

Mate even past coaches and players use these terms (well obviously except for shit, they call them poor) they categorise teams as elite, average, quality it seems like only you can't understand the difference.

40yearBLUE said:
I just hope that this years loss to them is a one of those cathartic moments that galvanise a team. So far it does not look like it, we have seemed flat ever since. That can all change with a good win against a quality team (quality elite on the new scale). And whilst the Collingwood win was stirring, we would need to follow it up with another against the Cats, or Hawks to cement that improvement as more than just catching a good team with injuries. The Essendon loss the week after took most if not all the gloss off that win and put some doubts back in as to whether we have quite arrived yet. On paper it seems we should get enough wins in (and our draw is not the toughest out there, thats true) to finish in the top 4, but if we lack the mental toughness we could be found out when there is no next week.

I dont think that is the case, but it has to make you wonder after such an insipid display as we put on that day.
Click to expand...

But this doesn't matter, because draws are irrelevant :rolleyes:
 
Peete said:
The only time our midfield has been tested - we lost. I suspect harsher tests are coming soon enough. Talk of a top four finish or better as a 'given' is premature I think right now- based on our form to date.

If we regain the clearance form we displayed against an undermanned Collingwood - we are probably the hardest team to beat. If we manage the tall target like we did ( Cloke ) we become (maybe) the team to beat.

If we let other teams give us the taps and we lose the clearances - we are back in the pack.

The St Kilda match will test us exactly where we need to be tested - in clearances against quality and how we handle the bomb to quality tall targets. This game is great preparation for a game against Adelaide. Win these two games and we learn a lot more about where exactly our game is at. After which longer term predictions may have more than just supporter 'comfort value'.

Hope?

Wouldn't it be great to see someone in our team have a break-out year and rise to new heights. It was gunna be Gibbs. I was hoping to see him and Yarron lift to new levels. Hampson seems to be the guy providing that unexpected ray of sunshine - a new factor X for us

I dont really care what Essendon are doing. Bliss for me would be to see us in the top 4 with Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast. Let the teams below scrag each other to death .
Click to expand...

We lost the clearances to the Giants, so our midfield was tested against theirs. and IINM Freo won the clearance count against us too. We won both of those games, so I'm going to have to disagree with that part.

Our defence has been pretty solid and that's why we can still gain more I50's even though we lose the clearance count.
 
I'm glad i'm not the only one who is puzzled about all the hype over Essendon this week. Three of their five wins have come against Port (Currently 15th), Gold Coast (Currently 16th) and Brisbane (Currently 14th). No matter what anyone else tells you, they were lucky to hang on against North. There only real credible win came against us, but when Laidler hurts his knee in the first contest of the match, Carrazzo gets his shoulder blade broken in the first quarter, and Curnow and Yaz get injured before half time, you can make some legitimate arguments as to why we struggled that day.

As for a top 4 contender, that is genuinly laughable.
 
40yearBLUE said:
False. Why would it be that our midfield was tested v Ess but not tested v Collingwood. Pies midfield is vastly superior to Essendons and we passed that test with flying colors. Just because we win does not mean the midfield did not face a stern test. In fact I would counter that every time we win, it is entirely because our midfield passed the test placed on them that day.
Click to expand...


40Blue - I enjoy the analysis from quite a few of the posters in here, including yourself.

Essendon game (may be noise because of injuries) but it reamains the number one question for us to answer in coming games. Fremantle lost the taps and won the clearances against us...

I rate St Kilda/Adelaide/WC/Hawthorn/Geelong/Sydney MUCH higher than Essendon as tests.

In my books Collingwood win cancels out Essendon loss - we are just entering the danger zone as far as comeptition goes now...

any other falshoods?
 
Tanks_Alot said:
We lost the clearances to the Giants, so our midfield was tested against theirs. and IINM Freo won the clearance count against us too. We won both of those games, so I'm going to have to disagree with that part.

Our defence has been pretty solid and that's why we can still gain more I50's even though we lose the clearance count.
Click to expand...


Tanks - fair points which only reinforce what I am concerned about - and that is winning taps and losing clearances...

you knwo as well as I do that GWS dont have the firepower to challenge our defece. As for Freo - all I can say is we did well to get away with it.

There are harder tests coming..
 
Peete said:
40Blue - I enjoy the analysis from quite a few of the posters in here, including yourself.

Essendon game (may be noise because of injuries) but it reamains the number one question for us to answer in coming games. Fremantle lost the taps and won the clearances against us...

I rate St Kilda/Adelaide/WC/Hawthorn/Geelong/Sydney MUCH higher than Essendon as tests.

In my books Collingwood win cancels out Essendon loss - we are just entering the danger zone as far as comeptition goes now...

any other falshoods?
Click to expand...

No that was the only one. You acknowledge now that our mids were tested v Pies and came out with flying colors.

I dont rate the Essendon mids too highly, but when you are down to almost no rotations (Laidler on and off the ground for sustained periods having his knee worked on, Carrots permanently subbed out of our midfield, one of our best mids, Curnow hobbled by injury also one of our mids, and Yazz also hobbled by injury) to our midfield, the very best will struggle against fit runners no matter that they are inferior, and we still managed a minor rally in the last quarter. Unfortunately the damage had already been done.

None of the injuries though, can account for the fact that we did not physically impose ourselves that day. We could have fought out a loss of the same proportions but came off the ground having given a good account of ourselves despite our injuries and limited rotations. It appeared as though we did not. We have done little since (besides winning the games) to dispell the doubts. That will come, as you say, when we play another quality (old scale) midfield such as StKilda this coming Monday. If we win in all facets of the game and handsomely on the scoreboard I think we can assume that we had a little slump in form and that all is well again in the world.

On the other hand, should we be found wanting, then the doubts over our ability to go all the way will persist and rightly so.
 
Peete said:
Tanks - fair points which only reinforce what I am concerned about - and that is winning taps and losing clearances...

you knwo as well as I do that GWS dont have the firepower to challenge our defece. As for Freo - all I can say is we did well to get away with it.

There are harder tests coming..
Click to expand...

No doubt there'll be harder tests particularly after the next 4 weeks where we have Geelong, followed by WCE at Patersons, then a bye followed by the Hawks. Tough trot and certainly if we don't lift our form we will probably lose all 3 of them. I'm hoping that if we can win the next 4 our confidence will be up and we will be able to win 2 of those 3 but honestly can't see us winning all of them.

I think the Bombers were the ones who physically challenged our mids and since then other teams have been trying to do that. The Giants were ferocious in that first half especially for a bunch of teenagers and early 20 year olds. The thing that worries me the most is we were pushed into playing like we did against Essendon. Crap disposals, decision making was hopeless and weren't working hard enough around the ground. It is an issue that needs to be addressed no doubt.
 
HBF said:
I'm glad i'm not the only one who is puzzled about all the hype over Essendon this week. Three of their five wins have come against Port (Currently 15th), Gold Coast (Currently 16th) and Brisbane (Currently 14th). No matter what anyone else tells you, they were lucky to hang on against North. There only real credible win came against us, but when Laidler hurts his knee in the first contest of the match, Carrazzo gets his shoulder blade broken in the first quarter, and Curnow and Yaz get injured before half time, you can make some legitimate arguments as to why we struggled that day.

As for a top 4 contender, that is genuinly laughable.
Click to expand...

The interesting thing so far this season is that their are still major questions on all of the contenders this year
West Coast - can they win on the MCG?
Carlton are they as soft as they were against Essendon?
Geelong are they as old and slow as they looked against Freo?
Hawthorn can they win with a slow midfield, no rucks and a small backline?
Collingwood do they rely entirely on Swan and Pendles, can Bucks lead them, etc?
Essendon do they have enough A graders?
Swans do they have enough A graders?

Makes a change from last years 2 horse race. This year a team could come from a long way back in the field.
 
Sector 7G said:
The interesting thing so far this season is that their are still major questions on all of the contenders this year
West Coast - can they win on the MCG?
Carlton are they as soft as they were against Essendon?
Geelong are they as old and slow as they looked against Freo?
Hawthorn can they win with a slow midfield, no rucks and a small backline?
Collingwood do they rely entirely on Swan and Pendles, can Bucks lead them, etc?
Essendon do they have enough A graders?
Swans do they have enough A graders?

Makes a change from last years 2 horse race. This year a team could come from a long way back in the field.
Click to expand...

Good Questions:

WC - will be getting back a lot of injured players all tehy ahve to do is hang on - but for sure - can they win close games at MCG - without the free kick advantages they enjoy over there? I say nope.

Carlton are they as soft as appeared aginst Essendon? I say no - but we arent hard either...is our classy speed enough?

Geelong are they as slow as they appeared? I say no - they have players to come back -but they arent the force they were two years ago. Still - they know how to win.

Hawthorn - hard nuts - 5 superstars and a smart coach - is that enough? reminds me of St Kilda a couple of years back. - I think everythign has to go right for them to really challenge.

Collingwood: I say lots of really good players - this year their own worst enemies really - do they really want it anymore?

Essendon: I say - underestimate Thompson at your own peril - he likes big bodied players playing an honest hard at the man game. Do they have enough in front of goal though? and what do they do if Watson gets shut down - I say they arent 'real' challengers - yet.

Swans: The most under rated team in the mix -and an under rated master coach.
 
Sector 7G said:
The interesting thing so far this season is that their are still major questions on all of the contenders this year
West Coast - can they win on the MCG?
Carlton are they as soft as they were against Essendon?
Geelong are they as old and slow as they looked against Freo?
Hawthorn can they win with a slow midfield, no rucks and a small backline?
Collingwood do they rely entirely on Swan and Pendles, can Bucks lead them, etc?
Essendon do they have enough A graders?
Swans do they have enough A graders?

Makes a change from last years 2 horse race. This year a team could come from a long way back in the field.
Click to expand...

And what makes that observation all the more intriguing, well for most of the topline teams anyway, is that their perceived weaknesses have been absent in some of the games.

West Coast: The MCG is just another venue, it still has 4 white posts at each end and grass as the surface. There is no logical reason why any ground ought to possess an advantage or disadvantage. Its true the dimensions are somewhat different but good teams can win anywhere.

Carlton: They certainly did not look to have any deficiencies by the time the Magpies game was over. We had won against both top and bottom teams by 40, 90 and 60 points without any apparent chinks in our make-up, strong defence, dominant midfield, potent forwards, top line players sidelined through inability to dislodge incumbents. That has all changed as the result of our one and only loss. Has not yet been adequately addressed.

Geelong: Were young and fast enough to account for Hawthorn in a hard fought win. They have despatched lesser opponents albeit not as convincingly as they perhaps should have, and have lost to a couple of mid ranked sides. It could just be premiership hangover in the early season and they could awaken soon, or they shot their last round last year and are done.

Hawthorn: Pre-season they loomed as the genuine premiership favourites and beat Collingwood in round 1 as if that hype had substance but the losses they have suffered against the Swans and Cats has certainly put doubts out about them.

Collingwood: Have yet to beat any of the genuine contenders for this years flag, round 8 is their next test. They have looked down all over the park and their list looks decidedly thin now, some of the players they have played look out of their depth (Cam Wood, Seedsman, Sinclair) and Dawes, Jolly and Cloke dont look anywhere near as effectual now that Brown is gone.

Swans: Must admit, I didnt have them in my 8 pre-season but they look like they are going to be hard to dislodge now that they are in. They have a fantastic culture that can make up for their lack of A graders.

Essendon: lets see how they look later in the year, like last year I think their real potential will soon start to shine through, and I dont mean in a positive way. Nuff said I think.
 

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Will be interesting to see what happens this week after all the attention on the Weagles Cheating techniques to milk free's. Even the umps have weighed in on the issue. First we had to put up with Weagleland's out of control endemic drug culture, and now this.

:)
 
Malifice said:
Actually my first 40 y/o was a few weeks ago. She had very bushy eyebrows.

Like a wizard.
Click to expand...
Need your thoughts on Mayne's mother.

Mayne_mum246x316px_B.jpg
 
Concern over VFL fixture (Greg Swann)

I am glad someone talking about this. The VFL scheduling is disgraceful it should begin and finish the same as the real season. This give players playing in VFL finals are chance to play in the AFL final when their club is in it. The other thing how does young players develop when Northern Blues have had like near 3 byes in 8 weeks of football. The 11 team competition surely the can add another club?


THERE are fears dramatic inconsistencies in the VFL fixture are compromising the growth of young AFL players, with the Foxtel Cup adding to scheduling complications.

The 2012 VFL schedule is littered with interruptions including byes and a weekend off for a state game.

"We've got concerns about the continuity for the younger guys," Carlton chief executive Greg Swann told AFL.com.au.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=135363
 
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