No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[Simon Crawshay]

Well he can - he can catch an Uber and buy all sorts of tricks

The problem is.. he’s an idiot

Not since the days of Gary Ablett Senior and Wayne Carey has a player been blessed with so much talent whilst also being a genuine A grade Ratbag (Buddy had his moments as a youngster but seemed to straighten up as he got older).

Funny to see that even in the hyper professional league it is today the supremely talented always get so many more chances than the rest.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Wasn't a suspended license.
He was instructed by doctors bot to drive on medical grounds. It's a self report, and if he wasn't a footballer the cops would've been none-the-wiser when they saw him behind the wheel

He was pulled over, no? Meaning his registration was ran and his licence was flagging as suspended.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Drug addiction is a hell of a challenge. A lot of people convince themselves that casual usage is a thing. A few people manage to live that way for a while. But the demon always gets its due in the end.

 

[A Diakos]

Essendon has declared not in a position to sell their pokies

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Drug addiction is a hell of a challenge. A lot of people convince themselves that casual usage is a thing. A few people manage to live that way for a while. But the demon always gets its due in the end.

Well it's not that black and white. I have casually done coke twice in my life. I enjoyed it. I have never done it again - I can't justify the cost or the possible damage of long term use. There are drugs such as MDMA and weed that are significantly less addictive than things such as heroin and amphetamines or even nicotine which is perfectly legal. Most of my mates did weed during high school and uni but haven't touched it for decades now.

There are plenty of casual users of substances who don't succumb to addiction. Others aren't as fortunate. I would agree that something like ice isn't something most users can just dabble in however.

With Oliver - if he has an addiction problem then the longer Melbourne pussyfoot around this and don't get him serious help then they are beyond negligent. If they are putting the needs of their footy side over and above Oliver's health then I hope they pay dearly for doing so.

 

[DogDaySonny]

With Oliver - if he has an addiction problem then the longer Melbourne pussyfoot around this and don't get him serious help then they are beyond negligent. If they are putting the needs of their footy side over and above Oliver's health then I hope they pay dearly for doing so.

You can’t make an addict help himself. They aren’t putting whatever up his nose or in his lungs or however it’s happening. Similarly, they can’t make him stop. He’s got to make that choice himself. Making that choice may cost him everything. It isn’t easy.

 

[TylerDurden]

Well it's not that black and white. I have casually done coke twice in my life. I enjoyed it. I have never done it again - I can't justify the cost or the possible damage of long term use. There are drugs such as MDMA and weed that are significantly less addictive than things such as heroin and amphetamines or even nicotine which is perfectly legal. Most of my mates did weed during high school and uni but haven't touched it for decades now.

There are plenty of casual users of substances who don't succumb to addiction. Others aren't as fortunate. I would agree that something like ice isn't something most users can just dabble in however.

With Oliver - if he has an addiction problem then the longer Melbourne pussyfoot around this and don't get him serious help then they are beyond negligent. If they are putting the needs of their footy side over and above Oliver's health then I hope they pay dearly for doing so.

Agree. If he's an addict, his career is over. Needs help before something more drastic happens.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You can’t make an addict help himself. They aren’t putting whatever up his nose or in his lungs or however it’s happening. Similarly, they can’t make him stop. He’s got to make that choice himself. Making that choice may cost him everything. It isn’t easy.

Sure, this isn't the US and you can't just have somebody go to rehab against their will. However, you can tell him he's not playing footy until he does something to help himself. If there is a serious problem at hand I am sure the AFL and AFLPA would back him being prevented from continuing with football duties until such time as he has sought help and bettered himself. Nobody wants a repeat of the Ben Cousins debacle. If Oliver has deep dependency issues then his club, his mates and anyone close to him are borderline complicit if they aren't strongly guiding him to seek help.

Agree. If he's an addict, his career is over. Needs help before something more drastic happens.

Wouldn't say his career is over solely if he has an addiction problem - but it should absolutely be paused until such time as he is healthy enough to play again.

 

[extractasam]

Essendon has declared not in a position to sell their pokies

lol as if they have any genuine interest of getting rid of them anyway

 

[grumbleguts]

lol as if they have any genuine interest of getting rid of them anyway

They're still paying off the TB4 loans.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

They're still paying off the TB4 loans.

Sounds to me like they need some supplemental income.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Drug addiction is a hell of a challenge. A lot of people convince themselves that casual usage is a thing. A few people manage to live that way for a while. But the demon always gets its due in the end.

Casual usage is most definitely a thing. Casual alcohol use is fine for most people - for a subset there's addiction. Same is true of cocaine. You'd be amazed how many cocaine users there are in Melbourne across all professional services industries that ARENT addicts. They use it periodically, or to celebrate, or when they go out drinking. And are quite fine to live without it if it's not around etc.

There's a book called The Myth of Normal by a Gabor Mate. He talks about treating pain rather than addiction. The difference between an addict and a user is that the addict has a type of unresolved pain, trauma or issue that the drug addresses for a period of time. You can't just willpower your way out of it. (Which is why all the calls to tell an addict that they just need to try harder not to use are misguided and clearly the wrong approach).

Awesome book -really flips the view on these things.

 

[Flukey!]

There's a book called The Myth of Normal by a Gabor Mate. He talks about treating pain rather than addiction. The difference between an addict and a user is that the addict has a type of unresolved pain, trauma or issue that the drug addresses for a period of time.

Interesting book by the looks of it.
I rarely drink, don't smoke and never do drugs.

I am an addict of sorts, but to sugar.
I need to wean myself off it.

 

[wahawk]

Well it's not that black and white. I have casually done coke twice in my life. I enjoyed it. I have never done it again - I can't justify the cost or the possible damage of long term use. There are drugs such as MDMA and weed that are significantly less addictive than things such as heroin and amphetamines or even nicotine which is perfectly legal. Most of my mates did weed during high school and uni but haven't touched it for decades now.

There are plenty of casual users of substances who don't succumb to addiction. Others aren't as fortunate. I would agree that something like ice isn't something most users can just dabble in however.

With Oliver - if he has an addiction problem then the longer Melbourne pussyfoot around this and don't get him serious help then they are beyond negligent. If they are putting the needs of their footy side over and above Oliver's health then I hope they pay dearly for doing so.

Sorry man but MFC are not negligent in any way.

People make lifestyle choices and need to start owning these choices themselves.

I’m over this bullshit world we live in where someone else is to blame.

Fcuking man up & own your decisions.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Sorry man but MFC are not negligent in any way.

People make lifestyle choices and need to start owning these choices themselves.

I’m over this bullshit world we live in where someone else is to blame.

Fcuking man up & own your decisions.

All that tough talk is well and good but IF he has an ice addiction it’ll do very little to actually help. While the MFC pay him large sums of money and prioritise him getting on a footy field over getting help then they are absolutely as negligent as a club knowingly letting a concussed player go out and play.

Ben Cousins is only just at a point where his life seems fairly stable. How about the game doesn’t let that happen again and actually takes steps to help this guy rather than just try and sweep things under the rug.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Sorry man but MFC are not negligent in any way.

People make lifestyle choices and need to start owning these choices themselves.

I’m over this bullshit world we live in where someone else is to blame.

Fcuking man up & own your decisions.

I think that's a fairly black and white way to look at a more complex issue. The fact they had a President with a background in HR Law wanting to investigate the club coach for his influence on the playing group, and because that club pushes him out in favour of said coach, there will always be a microscope over them in instances like this.

 

[Off The Couch]

Why is everyone talking about Clayton like his the next Benny

Media over here really not talking about it.

Could it be MH issues

 

[Off The Couch]

Ned Ryerson if you don’t think the eagles tried to help Cousins you are very mistaken

What do you think Melbourne can do?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Why is everyone talking about Clayton like his the next Benny

Media over here really not talking about it.

Could it be MH issues

The gossip is suggesting that he’s got a problem with ice - hence I use the term ‘if’ when suggesting it could be the reason for his recent odd behaviour and issues.

Ned Ryerson if you don’t think the eagles tried to help Cousins you are very mistaken

What do you think Melbourne can do?

I didn’t say they didn’t help. I am saying that if Oliver does have a dependency issue then Melbourne needs to put his health first and football a very distant seconds. My read from the outside (and I could be wrong and hope I am) is that it seems the club is just hoping this issue sorts itself out and are prioritising their million dollar a year player getting on the field. If he’s got a meth dependency issue I doubt the problem is just going to right itself so if it was a player at our club I’d much rather they be seeking help and getting over the addiction than doing preseason training. I’m invoking Cousins because his life was a mess for decades because of the drug use - I hope for Oliver’s sake this doesn’t happen to him.

 

[Charchi]

Read Ben Cousins book, it is horrifying what he did. Ben treated getting off his face as a reward in the two days after a game, after that he knuckled down and trained his arse off for the rest of the week. Trouble was it was a downward spiral, WCE knew enough about it but did not take the only thing from Ben that might have helped him and his addiction and that was standing him down from playing, the true thing he loved doing. What Ben put his family through was frightening and exhausting for them. Reading that book should be compulsory for all footballers.

 

[Yardie]

Read Ben Cousins book, it is horrifying what he did. Ben treated getting off his face as a reward in the two days after a game, after that he knuckled down and trained his arse off for the rest of the week. Trouble was it was a downward spiral, WCE knew enough about it but did not take the only thing from Ben that might have helped him and his addiction and that was standing him down from playing, the true thing he loved doing. What Ben put his family through was frightening and exhausting for them. Reading that book should be compulsory for all footballers.

Did he mention what drugs he was doing? Word was that he was fine doing coke then got into ice and that's when it all went downhill.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Read Ben Cousins book, it is horrifying what he did. Ben treated getting off his face as a reward in the two days after a game, after that he knuckled down and trained his arse off for the rest of the week. Trouble was it was a downward spiral, WCE knew enough about it but did not take the only thing from Ben that might have helped him and his addiction and that was standing him down from playing, the true thing he loved doing. What Ben put his family through was frightening and exhausting for them. Reading that book should be compulsory for all footballers.

You raise a good point that someone on ice isn’t only a danger to themselves but others as well. And if people want a modern example of what happens when you don’t get help and just thrown to the wolves of ‘just help yourself’ just look at Andrew O’Keefe. If it’s ice then it’s seldom that easy. Here’s a constitutional lawyer by trade with a succesful entertainment career paying him a fair sum for easy work and the pipe has absolutely changed and ruined him.

Having listened a lot to John Mulaney’s battle with addiction and the intervention his closest friends underwent with him to get him to seek help, which he now credits for saving his life, I can’t buy into the ‘just help yourself’ mentality. For some people it’s beyond them. If you’re able to do that and also avoid addiction - consider yourself fortunate. Humans are fallible and quite often need the help of others. If, and again I stress IF, Oliver is battling a nasty addiction with something as serious as ice then his footy career should be taking a back seat until such time as he’s overcome it.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Did he mention what drugs he was doing? Word was that he was fine doing coke then got into ice and that's when it all went downhill

That sounds about right. I remember reading a doctor/scientist discussing ice a handful of years back and talking about the impact it has on the brain chemistry of users and changing their personality far more than other substances. Empirically speaking, around the traps in Richmond you can absolutely see the difference in ice users vs heroin users. The ice users can be very bloody unpredictable and scary.

 

[wahawk]

All that tough talk is well and good but IF he has an ice addiction it’ll do very little to actually help. While the MFC pay him large sums of money and prioritise him getting on a footy field over getting help then they are absolutely as negligent as a club knowingly letting a concussed player go out and play.

Ben Cousins is only just at a point where his life seems fairly stable. How about the game doesn’t let that happen again and actually takes steps to help this guy rather than just try and sweep things under the rug.

It’s about people taking responsibility. That’s not tough talk.

I didn’t once say or insinuate that MFC shouldn’t be trying to help him, they most definitely should. They most likely are, but that headline wouldn’t get the clicks.

But imo, you & others may disagree, MFC are not negligent for Olivers own lifestyle choice.
You put shit up your nose or into your veins……own it.


While Cousins story is similar it’s also very different.

Football clubs operate very different now.

From what I know from people ITK over here WCE could have & should have done a lot more to help him.
I think they & other clubs learnt some very good lessons from the mistakes they made back then.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It’s about people taking responsibility. That’s not tough talk.

I didn’t once say or insinuate that MFC shouldn’t be trying to help him, they most definitely should. They most likely are, but that headline wouldn’t get the clicks.

But imo, you & others may disagree, MFC are not negligent for Olivers own lifestyle choice.
You put s**t up your nose or into your veins……own it.


While Cousins story is similar it’s also very different.

Football clubs operate very different now.

From what I know from people ITK over here WCE could have & should have done a lot more to help him.
I think they & other clubs learnt some very good lessons from the mistakes they made back then.

Okay. Addiction isn’t as simple as you make out and it’s pointless debating anything with you if you think it is. If Oliver’s issues were just him being a highly paid juvenile flog then I’d agree with you. If he has an ice addiction then that’s an entirely different thing for mine.