Mega Thread General MFC Discussion Part III

[Headless]

Was going to post it in Headless thread but not really the thread for it so will ask it here instead, why do we have more all time greats in their prime than every team going around currently and struggle to beat top 8 teams? These should be glory days, and its probably why Trac, Oliver and Gawn dont get the kudos they deserve from this board

A fair question.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Was going to post it in Headless thread but not really the thread for it so will ask it here instead, why do we have more all time greats in their prime than every team going around currently and struggle to beat top 8 teams? These should be glory days, and its probably why Trac, Oliver and Gawn dont get the kudos they deserve from this board

Is the coach that bad? Is our leadership that bad? Is our list management and recruiting overrated? Is there too big of a drop off from our top tier to the next? Do our best players actually make the team better or they far too concerned about their own game rather than the big picture and elevating others around them?

Fair questions. In our patchy run of form over the past 25 matches, I reckon Gawn has looked hampered for a fair chunk of it.

As for Clarry and Trac it does feel as though there’s a lack of balance to their games at the moment. Oliver’s best game of the season was the 25 and 2 against Sydney. It feels as though they get a lot of touches for minimal hurt factor and that in my view is on the coaches.

 

[Scythe94]

Is the coach that bad? Is our leadership that bad? Is our list management and recruiting overrated? Is there too big of a drop off from our top tier to the next? Do our best players actually make the team better or they far too concerned about their own game rather than the big picture and elevating others around them?

There's a few reasons, but I want to touch on this one. If I was to break down the guys that have played senior footy this year into categories (completely arbitrary, but considering history and current form), it'd be something like this:

Stars
Oliver, Petracca, Gawn

Elite for their positions
May, Fritsch

Very good for their positions
Pickett (close to elite, but consistency holds him back just at the moment), Lever, Grundy, Langdon, Hunter

Slightly above average for their positions
Hibberd, Rivers (close to VG)

---------

'Just a player'
Salem, Neal-Bullen, Brayshaw, Petty, Spargo, Viney (could maybe go up a category), Sparrow, Jordon

What are these guys doing playing senior footy?
Harmes, McDonald, Tomlinson, Melksham, Schache, Brown (though this may be a bit harsh considering he kicked nine goals in three games this year)

Prospects
JVR, McVee, Chandler, Bowey, Turner

Now, by this (albeit simple) ranking, there's 12 players in our regular 22 that I'd consider above average, leaving 10 guys in our team each week that are just average players or below.

After the flag, there was plenty of 'dynasty' talk being bandied around. Let's take a look at a team from a true dynasty (Hawthorn's 2013 flag side):



If we're being honest, elite talent aside (which Hawthorn had plenty of), how many players that fill the 10 remaining spots in our side would get a game in this Hawthorn team, whose weakest links were probably Bailey, Shiels and a young Brad Hill?

Obviously, the current top teams in the AFL don't really compare to that Hawthorn side, but even if you look at Collingwood's team in R1 where they didn't have many injuries, you get this:



You could argue that our top-end talent matches and maybe surpasses Collingwood's, but I'd contend that there's only around 3-4 players in that team that wouldn't be considered at least 'above average' (Hoskin-Elliott, McStay, Cox and maybe McCreery, who still brings elite pressure).

I think we (and the media) sometimes get sucked into the superstar hype, when the lower half of our 22 in reality is not very good. This is evidenced by the fact that Goodwin only trusts around 4-5 players to run through the middle regularly, when a lot of other contending teams have far more depth and rotations in that regard.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Love a detailed response like this, great work Scythe94

 

[Topkent]

It's always chicken and the egg with that, I'm of the belief your stars drag the level of the spuds underneath them up, but maybe having enough spuds drags the stars down.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I think Sparrow is a perfect test subject, when we were playing well as a team he looked very good in back end of 2021. Since then hes looked nothing better than average, much like the team

 

[Topkent]

Shit thing for us is the spuds are down, but so are the stars. Your stars drag you through the tight games though.

We saw alot of players have career best seasons and a career best month in September who might not get it back. Good thing is with those bottom 10 players you can refresh them in one or 2 years. One massive draft this off season and another couple younger players break into the side and we could fix it.

 

[knackers29]

It's always chicken and the egg with that, I'm of the belief your stars drag the level of the spuds underneath them up, but maybe having enough spuds drags the stars down.

 

[Topkent]

Glass half empty, no side has won a flag then missed 2 years and won it again the 4th in the AFL era. Hawks did 08 then 13 but also made a GF in 12'
Their Dynasty started in 12' I can't see ours starting in 3 years from now when Gawn, May, Viney, Hibberd are gone.

 

[Dancing Potato]

View attachment 1701118

Yes?

 

[mrmonkey]

Saying Neeld around here is like saying Macbeth before going on stage at the theatre.

You're better than that.

If macbeth is referred to as the Scottish play to overcome that superstition then how to refer to neeld? My proposal would be the twitchy guy.

 

[Dark Avenger]

Moving into a smaller place & have to let this signed Robbie Flower frame go. 75 cm x 59 cm. Anyone here keen? Msg me if you are. Asking for $200

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Moving into a smaller place & have to let this signed Robbie Flower frame go. 75 cm x 59 cm. Anyone here keen? Msg me if you are. Asking for $200

what number of the 200 is it mate?

 

[Tulip]

s**t this reads as condascending mate. Are you a Uni lecturer or teacher perchance?

Your poor kids at parent teachers, mate. They'd be cringing with embarrassment if this is what you think of people who earn piss all and work 11 hours a day to educate them.

 

[Crimson Azure]

If macbeth is referred to as the Scottish play to overcome that superstition then how to refer to neeld? My proposal would be the twitchy guy.

Failure personified?

 

[Dark Avenger]

what number of the 200 is it mate?

Doesn't look like it's got one.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Doesn't look like it's got one.

Yeah thought I couldn't see one, weird how that isn't marked. Not doubting its real, just each limited edition has always given a specific number as far I was aware til now.

 

[Dark Avenger]

Yeah thought I couldn't see one, weird how that isn't marked. Not doubting its real, just each limited edition has always given a specific number as far I was aware til now.

I never even noticed it until you asked. I won it at an auction about twenty years ago at my cricket club. One of the perks of being a Dee's supporter was no one bid against me. From memory the Collingwood one sold for heaps.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I never even noticed it until you asked. I won it at an auction about twenty years ago at my cricket club. One of the perks of being a Dee's supporter was no one bid against me. From memory the Collingwood one sold for heaps.

Can see its marked with the AFL authentic memorabilia stamp so no doubt its real, but yeah just something I noticed and something a lot of collectors look for , if it was #2 of 200 it would sell for shitloads more than other numbers

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

It's always chicken and the egg with that, I'm of the belief your stars drag the level of the spuds underneath them up, but maybe having enough spuds drags the stars down.

My thesis is stars determine whether you're a "good" side or not, the type that wins more games than it loses.

To win a flag you need stars up and firing + the rest of your side who aren't stars performing at an above average level - basically they become elite role players. In a 'regular' one-time premiership side (like us) the non-stars tend to revert back to just being average players, ala Scythe's excellent list of 'Just a Player'/why are they still playing above.

In a dynasty like Hawthorn or Richmond the core of the team stay as elite role players which lets the stars win flags for you.

 

[booshboy]

My thesis is stars determine whether you're a "good" side or not, the type that wins more games than it loses.

To win a flag you need stars up and firing + the rest of your side who aren't stars performing at an above average level - basically they become elite role players. In a 'regular' one-time premiership side (like us) the non-stars tend to revert back to just being average players, ala Scythe's excellent list of 'Just a Player'/why are they still playing above.

In a dynasty like Hawthorn or Richmond the core of the team stay as elite role players which lets the stars win flags for you.

yep when a sides going really well, everyone has a really clear and defined role which allows role players (potentially delist material at shit clubs) to play well above their weight grade and allow the stars to do their thing. Spargo, Neal Bullen, Bowey etc- its not coincidence their form as fallen away with the teams.

 

[64Problems]

Hello everyone, not sure if this is allowed but I'm looking for one measly ticket to the game on Monday? A sold out home and away game, what a time to be alive

 

[ep12]

Hello everyone, not sure if this is allowed but I'm looking for one measly ticket to the game on Monday? A sold out home and away game, what a time to be alive

Get on Demonland and go to the Kings Birthday Sold Out thread, there's a few people giving away/selling their reserved seats in Melbourne only bays. About 4 tickets available, just look through the last 3 or 4 pages of the thread

 

[booshboy]

Hello everyone, not sure if this is allowed but I'm looking for one measly ticket to the game on Monday? A sold out home and away game, what a time to be alive

PM'd you

 

[squared cube]

Also looking to buy a spare ticket if possible!