Gerard Healey - Will Day #1 -2019

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Delisted said:
That's pretty insane right!? I was praying we didn't have a O'meara situation, but he has came back and adjusted well.
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Not sure that has happened too often from an 18yo kid. Tragedy he got a major injury straight after then did an ACL the next year. But he is a fantastic player and hugely underrated due to not having an eye-catching playing style.
 
He is great but his bag isn’t as deep as the others he does what he does as well as any, like a Liberatore but he doesn’t have the other weapons that some mentioned do. He is just about his own worst enemy like Kane Cornes said last year it would be great to see him get a few more cheap possesions as well, which doesn’t sound right but it actually adds to his value.
 
Lingsface said:
He is great but his bag isn’t as deep as the others he does what he does as well as any, like a Liberatore but he doesn’t have the other weapons that some mentioned do. He is just about his own worst enemy like Kane Cornes said last year it would be great to see him get a few more cheap possesions as well, which doesn’t sound right but it actually adds to his value.
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Cornes? Fmd that is not strengthening your argument Lingy.

Rowell probably doesn't have the weapons some others do, but they definitely do not have the weapons he has. It is a matter of what is more valuable overall. I think the truth is you need everything done at a very high level to be a really high performing team. The best recent example of this I think is the current Collingwood team. You put Mitchell and Taylor Adams back into their midfield they are a nailed on top 4 team most likely. You take them out, it is very difficult not to get overpowered in tight, and as we can see by their 2024 performance, that is important. Their "damaging" mids are suddenly not quite as damaging without those guys doing their work. Yet last year you watch Collingwood games you would barely notice Adams or Mitchell.

There are more players around that can do what a Warner, Serong, etc can do at their level than there are that can do what Rowell can do at his sort of level.

Rowell getting more easy kicks isn't the answer, every club has an endless list of players that can do that. The players need to be able to play roles with their team's offensive, defensive and contest systems. For a player to say to himself, hey forget my role within our system, I will just go kick chasing, would be of zero benefit and huge detriment to his team. This is what Cornes was suggesting he do. What Cornes is probably really saying is he doesn't know how to value the less obvious things a player does because they don't catch his eye, and historically the best players have been thought to be the most eye-catching players.

This is why I think the player ratings are wrongly maligned in comparison to other methods of judging player performance. Because they take everything into account, the eye-catching play and the less obvious actions that teams require to function well. This is why the ratings say Rowell is the 11th best player in the competition this year. If this was 1980, footy commentators would be saying he is an ok midfielder and good scrapper but not near the top echelon players, and needs to add more to his game to get there. And they would have been incorrect.
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
Cornes? Fmd that is not strengthening your argument Lingy.

Rowell probably doesn't have the weapons some others do, but they definitely do not have the weapons he has. It is a matter of what is more valuable overall. I think the truth is you need everything done at a very high level to be a really high performing team. The best recent example of this I think is the current Collingwood team. You put Mitchell and Taylor Adams back into their midfield they are a nailed on top 4 team most likely. You take them out, it is very difficult not to get overpowered in tight, and as we can see by their 2024 performance, that is important. Their "damaging" mids are suddenly not quite as damaging without those guys doing their work. Yet last year you watch Collingwood games you would barely notice Adams or Mitchell.

There are more players around that can do what a Warner, Serong, etc can do at their level than there are that can do what Rowell can do at his sort of level.

Rowell getting more easy kicks isn't the answer, every club has an endless list of players that can do that. The players need to be able to play roles with their team's offensive, defensive and contest systems. For a player to say to himself, hey forget my role within our system, I will just go kick chasing, would be of zero benefit and huge detriment to his team. This is what Cornes was suggesting he do. What Cornes is probably really saying is he doesn't know how to value the less obvious things a player does because they don't catch his eye, and historically the best players have been thought to be the most eye-catching players.

This is why I think the player ratings are wrongly maligned in comparison to other methods of judging player performance. Because they take everything into account, the eye-catching play and the less obvious actions that teams require to function well. This is why the ratings say Rowell is the 11th best player in the competition this year. If this was 1980, footy commentators would be saying he is an ok midfielder and good scrapper but not near the top echelon players, and needs to add more to his game to get there. And they would have been incorrect.
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What you are saying is all true for sure and I would love to run out next to him and that is something you could not measure statistically as well, he is all in at every contest and is an absolute warrior. I just think it is like a Dennis Rodman vs Michael Jordan, Dennis could do things that no one else could do but that is all he could do. Jordan could defend to a very good level but he could also offer offence that had never been seen. A bottle opener on a solid bit of wood is more effective but I would rather have a swiss army knife if you offered me one or the other. Rowell is a champion and is a safe bet as well where the others may drop away.
 
Lingsface said:
He is great but his bag isn’t as deep as the others he does what he does as well as any, like a Liberatore but he doesn’t have the other weapons that some mentioned do. He is just about his own worst enemy like Kane Cornes said last year it would be great to see him get a few more cheap possesions as well, which doesn’t sound right but it actually adds to his value.
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I would say if that's your observation you probably don't or haven't actually watched him much .
Can win at contest and on the outside . Is attacking but also strong defensively . Now is kicking goals . Incredible versatile which is why he doesnt get the huge stats others do.
Can also play behind the ball where he started and really has just begun his career as a full time mid .

Not saying he would be 1 in a redraft but he isn't far behind that on form and he still has a fair scope to get better .

And I'm more in shock Healy said anything remotely positive at all about us
 
HeHateMe said:
All the guys in the elite end of this draft are elite in one way or another.

The argument for Day is that he has all the tools that's why he captures the imagination and you get comments like this for the commentary in his games, but he is still a work in progress and only shows them in glimpses.

On production to date he's amongst the top 10. Potential he has a strong argument he could be no.1, like quite a few from this draft by the way.
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Young is the same and like day has only played 25 games as a mid
 
Always rated Day highly, wouldn’t say he has the runs on the board to be pick one just yet, nor that he is necessarily projecting better than the others.

But certainly could be in a few years time, and is a big part of Hawthorns resurgence.

I think it’ll be a draft where no clear universal choice emerges, but a few players who you’d choose from based on needs and what you value.
 
The hands of stone said:
I would say if that's your observation you probably don't or haven't actually watched him much .
Can win at contest and on the outside . Is attacking but also strong defensively . Now is kicking goals . Incredible versatile which is why he doesnt get the huge stats others do.
Can also play behind the ball where he started and really has just begun his career as a full time mid .

Not saying he would be 1 in a redraft but he isn't far behind that on form and he still has a fair scope to get better .

And I'm more in shock Healy said anything remotely positive at all about us
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I have watched him a lot and stand by my ranking of him, I think this year he has taken steps towards developing a new side of his game for sure just being a bit exaggerated to prove my point of why I rate a few others before him at this point of their career.
 
Lingsface said:
Serong has been outstanding since day 1- 2020- Rising star 2021- 4th best and fairest 2022- 3rd best and fairest 2023- Best and Fairest, All Australian 2024- Most likely All Australian and best and fairest.
Add in a goal of the year for a bit of fun as well and 3 Glendenning Allen Medals.
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A lot of those awards do not mean much. I have never paid any attention to the Rising Star award after it was awarded to Rhys Palmer over Cyril Rioli. Undoubtedly, Serong's a fine player but is not number one. Currently, I would have Warner at number one as he exerts the most influence on the outcomes of games.

The deficiencies in Rowell is that he seems to have limited ability to dispose of the ball on his non-dominant side and has average disposal skill both by foot and hand. The hyperventilating of Rowell by the media which was in full swing in his first two seasons I find the most perplexing. Not saying there isn't a place in a football team for his type but I wouldn't rate him in the top ten of what was a strong draft.
 
Def top 5

the 2019 draft should be the main reason the crows sack their recruiting team.. oh and the 2016, and 2018 drafts. no wonder the crows are a basketcase.
 
It's just such a ridiculously stacked draft that you would be pretty happy with any of Serong, Rowell, Day, Anderson, Jackson, Pickett, Warner and Green.

Day, Pickett and Jackson probably have the highest ceiling of the draft in terms of what they could project to be. Serong, Rowell and Green the best floor.

Warner and Anderson in the middle.

It's looking like the 2001 superdraft.

The next rung below with Flanders, Bergman, Weightman, SDK, Young, Coleman looks seriously good and are on the cusp of being part of the elite of the comp in their respective positions.
 

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Day was explosive yesterday. Reminds me an awful lot of Bontempelli at the same age. Tall, quick, skinny but deceptively powerful and an incredible ability to shake a tackle.

Both natural leaders too.

Bont got bigger and became a top 3 player, here's hoping Day follows that trajectory

What an exceptional draft.
 
SSSSSS said:
It's just such a ridiculously stacked draft that you would be pretty happy with any of Serong, Rowell, Day, Anderson, Jackson, Pickett, Warner and Green.

Day, Pickett and Jackson probably have the highest ceiling of the draft in terms of what they could project to be. Serong, Rowell and Green the best floor.

Warner and Anderson in the middle.

It's looking like the 2001 superdraft.

The next rung below with Flanders, Bergman, Weightman, SDK, Young, Coleman looks seriously good and are on the cusp of being part of the elite of the comp in their respective positions.
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I would put Young in that first group
 
QuietB said:
2001 has it covered easily - I don’t think anything will ever catch the 2001 draft for top 10 talent, top 20 or total talent
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I've always thought 2001 was a perfect storm of a very talented draft class coming into a league that was just hitting the strides of being properly professional in terms of training and nutrition. It was only 5 years before that you still had players being semi professional to some extent and there were quite a few running around who'd spent most of their careers semi professional.

Still a cracking class, but that impact was magnified by the league they came into it - which will struggle to be replicated by any subsequent class as it's all about fine margins these days.
 
Hawker55 said:
I've always thought 2001 was a perfect storm of a very talented draft class coming into a league that was just hitting the strides of being properly professional in terms of training and nutrition. It was only 5 years before that you still had players being semi professional to some extent and there were quite a few running around who'd spent most of their careers semi professional.

Still a cracking class, but that impact was magnified by the league they came into it - which will struggle to be replicated by any subsequent class as it's all about fine margins these days.
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There was a good share of fatty pure footballers in 2001
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
Day was explosive yesterday. Reminds me an awful lot of Bontempelli at the same age. Tall, quick, skinny but deceptively powerful and an incredible ability to shake a tackle.
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People still haven’t cottoned on to this going by the posts in this thread.
 
Cody Weightman for a small forward has the third best goals per game average in the league (happy to correct if I've got this wrong but the only two I could find with a better average were Charlie Cameron and Luke Breust).

He probably needs to get involved a bit more.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Cornes? Fmd that is not strengthening your argument Lingy.

Rowell probably doesn't have the weapons some others do, but they definitely do not have the weapons he has. It is a matter of what is more valuable overall. I think the truth is you need everything done at a very high level to be a really high performing team. The best recent example of this I think is the current Collingwood team. You put Mitchell and Taylor Adams back into their midfield they are a nailed on top 4 team most likely. You take them out, it is very difficult not to get overpowered in tight, and as we can see by their 2024 performance, that is important. Their "damaging" mids are suddenly not quite as damaging without those guys doing their work. Yet last year you watch Collingwood games you would barely notice Adams or Mitchell.

There are more players around that can do what a Warner, Serong, etc can do at their level than there are that can do what Rowell can do at his sort of level.

Rowell getting more easy kicks isn't the answer, every club has an endless list of players that can do that. The players need to be able to play roles with their team's offensive, defensive and contest systems. For a player to say to himself, hey forget my role within our system, I will just go kick chasing, would be of zero benefit and huge detriment to his team. This is what Cornes was suggesting he do. What Cornes is probably really saying is he doesn't know how to value the less obvious things a player does because they don't catch his eye, and historically the best players have been thought to be the most eye-catching players.

This is why I think the player ratings are wrongly maligned in comparison to other methods of judging player performance. Because they take everything into account, the eye-catching play and the less obvious actions that teams require to function well. This is why the ratings say Rowell is the 11th best player in the competition this year. If this was 1980, footy commentators would be saying he is an ok midfielder and good scrapper but not near the top echelon players, and needs to add more to his game to get there. And they would have been incorrect.
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What mids are averaging over 23 disposals and kicking 30 goals for the season other than Bont and Warner?

Anyways, Caleb has been doing what Rowell is doing if not better for a couple of seasons now. Both are clearance specialists but Serong has more to his game.
 
Jezzitizle said:
Always rated Day highly, wouldn’t say he has the runs on the board to be pick one just yet, nor that he is necessarily projecting better than the others.

But certainly could be in a few years time, and is a big part of Hawthorns resurgence.

I think it’ll be a draft where no clear universal choice emerges, but a few players who you’d choose from based on needs and what you value.
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Spot on, we were 1 win / 5 losses before he played his first game of the year. His leadership and toughness has galvanised the group, his first half yesterday in particular was outstanding.
 
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Gerard Healey - Will Day #1 -2019

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