Get em or want em?

[masai]

It appears that this year it is the Eagles turn to be at the forefront of luring players back from the "nasty" eastern lands.

The first question to ask is do you really want these players (Headland, Chick, Stenglein)?. If you really want them, are you prepared to pay the price (trades and draft picks)?.

To get a good one, you need to trade good ones.

It seems that some people want to take, but are refusing to consider giving an equivalent player or players.

Personally (for what it's worth), Headlands value is going through the roof and you WILL have to give up a good one to get him. Is he worth that for your team balance?.

Chick at a discount price would be ideal as he is darn good (one bad season doesn't show his value), but the Hawks will want alot. (thank the Dockers). He could be a very good "rock" to hold the youngsters together as they learn.

Stenglein was the state captain in under 18's, says something about his leadership abilities. I reckon he is better than just a "tagger". Reminds me a bit of Matt Carr, so he is maybe a person who can push forward and score.

I'm an old traditionalist, but sometimes those on your "no trade" list need to be looked at if you can make a gain for the team. eg. midfielder to gain a key position.

 

[Mead]

Pretty much agree with you, actually.
Headland is the shiznit. Certain All-Aust next year, will be one of the best players in the league and a likely brownlow candidate before his career is up. If we got him for the right price, we'd have an absolutely godly midfield. Gardiner, Cousins, Kerr, Judd, Headland, Wirrpunda... I can't say that enough
In terms of what we'd have to pay for him, I could just about reconcile myself to our draft pick and someone like Cox or Fletcher, (or in an ideal world, Haynes or Embley) being swapped for him. I guess, grudgingly, I wouldn't be devastated if we lost Wirra for him, but I wouldn't be running around looking for that trade- if it came up, though, and nothing else would suffice, I'm guessing the footy dept may look long and hard at it. Not an easy decision, though, thats an excellent, paced up, very skilled midfielder for a guy about on the same level, albeit with a bit more potential for superstardom. May-be. And Headland is about the only guy in the league I'd even consider trading Wirrpunda for, with the exception of maybe Riewoldt.

Chick? Only at the right price. The draft pick on its own.
A handy player, may have some good years left in him, maybe not. Would use him as a midfielder/half forward player. But given that he's 26 and just coming off a crap season, there are two possibilities- either he'll resurrect his career and you have a very good midfielder for a few years, or you've just shelled out good money and players for another Paul Hudson type.
Only really worth going for if Headland is unavailable.

Stenglein, only if the price is right, read non existent, and none of the above are available. I'd be more interested in Darren Gaspar.

Basically, Headland is perhaps the only player in the league actually available for trade who it is worth giving some good players for. In principle, i'm not much of a one for trading, but Headland is worth an awful lot, provided you don't have to dismantle your own team to get him. Who wouldn't I trade for him? Certainly not Judd, not Cousins, Kerr or Gardiner, and probably not Wirrpunda. I'd also feel uneasy trading guys like Green, Hunter and Lynch who clearly have big futures ahead of them.

 

[Jabber]

If the rumours about Kerr's indiscretions with Cuz's family are true, then I'd consider him & a high draft pick for Headland - If only for team unity. Brisbane aren't likely to consider anything less.

Other than that - Chick, Stenglein & Woewodin are only fringe player & low draft pick trades IMHO.

I agree we need a quality tall defender, but not much is on offer this year. When are Gaspar & Hay out of contract?

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by Jabber
If the rumours about Kerr's indiscretions with Cuz's family are true, then I'd consider him & a high draft pick for Headland - If only for team unity. Brisbane aren't likely to consider anything less.

Other than that - Chick, Stenglein & Woewodin are only fringe player & low draft pick trades IMHO.

I agree we need a quality tall defender, but not much is on offer this year. When are Gaspar & Hay out of contract?

Keeping in mind that we have to re-sign Gardy, Cuz, Judd and Kerr within the next two years, and their values are all increasing (in terms of what they will be paid) I don't think the club can afford the $500 000 per year that Gaspar is on.

Given Richmond's salary cap problems I'm sure they'd be prepared to look at a trade for him. It'd be great to get him, but not at that price.

 

[Jabber]

Originally posted by larrikin

Keeping in mind that we have to re-sign Gardy, Cuz, Judd and Kerr within the next two years, and their values are all increasing (in terms of what they will be paid) I don't think the club can afford the $500 000 per year that Gaspar is on.

Given Richmond's salary cap problems I'm sure they'd be prepared to look at a trade for him. It'd be great to get him, but not at that price.

Not too much drama in the salary cap area.
Roo & Milli will only have another year left probably, and by then Jako and Banners should be able to slot into the veterans list.

$500K is far too much to pay Gaspar though and I think he will have to take a pay cut, if he wants to play. Not many teams can afford a $500K player nowdays.

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by Jabber


Not too much drama in the salary cap area.
Roo & Milli will only have another year left probably, and by then Jako and Banners should be able to slot into the veterans list.

$500K is far too much to pay Gaspar though and I think he will have to take a pay cut, if he wants to play. Not many teams can afford a $500K player nowdays.

I think he's still got at least two years left on his contract at that price (I think he signed a 4 or 5 year deal a couple of years ago) but I stand corrected on that one.

There has been speculation would continue to pay part of his contract if he was traded to make him more affordable to other clubs (ala Daffy at the Swans).

As I said earlier, he'd be a great pick up, but at the right price.

 

[WA]

Originally posted by larrikin

I think he's still got at least two years left on his contract at that price (I think he signed a 4 or 5 year deal a couple of years ago) but I stand corrected on that one.

There has been speculation would continue to pay part of his contract if he was traded to make him more affordable to other clubs (ala Daffy at the Swans).

As I said earlier, he'd be a great pick up, but at the right price.

No way we should go for Gaspar! FAR to expensive and over valued by many. His greed cost Richmond greatly imo, and not just because of his salary.

 

[jod23]

Im happy with my team and the only guy i want WC to really go after is Headland, but his price maybe too high. Plus i dont think West Coast are prepared to give up anyone of the likes of Judd (cant anyway) Kerr, Cuz, Gardy, Wirrpunda etc...so that leaves second tier players and draft picks which might be enough. It's no secret that Brisbane would probably benefit from a good young ruckman and Cox is just that. So maybe him and our first draft pick.

Not sure if i want Brisbane to win the GF or not though?? Which would increase our chances of getting him. If he loses he may want to stay as he will have more of a chance at a premiership with Brisbane rather than the Eagles....or he will be so disappointed at missing out on one in 01 and then losing in 02 that he just comes home.

Or he wins and wants more and more success, so he stay with Brisbane or he wins and mission accomplished...time to go home?

Stenglien and Woey not really worth much...Chick at the right price, right price being cheap!

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Watching yesterdays Brownlow, I think we all underestimated Chick's value. Here we all are saying how he's not a priority and how we don't really want him, but he polled quite good last night considering he had a sh.tty season.

I doubt we'll get Headland, but getting Chick won't be that big a step down.

 

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
Watching yesterdays Brownlow, I think we all underestimated Chick's value. Here we all are saying how he's not a priority and how we don't really want him, but he polled quite good last night considering he had a sh.tty season.

I doubt we'll get Headland, but getting Chick won't be that big a step down.

I agree.

I wonder with Chick's brother dying yesterday, if that will change his situation about returning to WA.

 

[i_luv_westcoast]

Originally posted by jod23
It's no secret that Brisbane would probably benefit from a good young ruckman and Cox is just that. So maybe him and our first draft pick.

Jod I have to disagree with you there. They have Beau McDonald, Jamie Charman and Clark Keating who are good ruckman. The first two are fairly young as well. What they do need is a full forward to take over from Lynch in the future.

 

[El Cid]

"Im happy with my team and the only guy i want WC to really go after is Headland, but his price maybe too high."

I think it would be ridiculous if we didn't push hard for him. In fact, i would like to see some comment from the Eagles hierachy telling us exactly those words..."we are after him and will be dissapointed if we don't get him".

When Simon Black said his dreams were shattered by not getting drafted by West Coast, i can tell you i was shattered. And i'd hate to see a WA star play away from his Spiritual Home.

And what price is too high? I'd give 4-500K straight up. Get him in a bidding war because judging by our list, we should have more room in the salary cap then most sides. If we don't, then make room.

Step 1. If Brisbane don't give us a good trade, he nominates for draft.

2. Then he nominates a price tag that only we can pay and get him without losing anyone.

3. I doubt Richmond, Saints, Carlton, Hawthorn, Geelong, Freo, Sydney, Bulldods have more salary room then us.

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by El Cid
[B3. I doubt Richmond, Saints, Carlton, Hawthorn, Geelong, Freo, Sydney, Bulldods have more salary room then us. [/B]

I'd be very surprised if one of the listed clubs didn't recruit him. Perhaps Richmond, Carlton and Freo couldn't afford him, and maybe not Hawthorn or the Bulldogs (92.5%), but I'd expect that Sydney at the least could make the room under their cap especially given all the retirements they've had in 2002. Reckon St Kilda might have the room too.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

I just had a long & complicated post suggesting a three way trade involving Dessie, Wirra and a Melbourne based team with early draft picks, when a book fell on my keyboard and I lost the lot

But basically it would be a way for:
- Des to come home
- Wirra to go home
- Brissie to make/retain room in their salary cap by drafting highly rated but cheap rookies, and perhaps pick up a second tier defender from the Melb club.

We'd lose Wirra and a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but gain Headland.
Brissie'd lose Des (massive loss, but at least theyd be getting something for him), but gain an early draft pick, plus a reliable but relatively cheap player, and relieve cap pressure.
Club 'X', would get Wirra and a lower draft pick... (which doesn't seem as reasonable as it did before Must've left something out).

Anyway, Brisbane don't seem to want to talk with us, but perhaps if other club(s) were involved there might be more they were interested in?

Overall, I just want for us to give it our best go.


(Chick - absolute tragedy, deepest sympathy to his family. Unfortunately I still wouldn't be interested unless he was a bargain)

Gaspar - no.
Stenglein - if the right deal was presented.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
I just had a long & complicated post suggesting a three way trade involving Dessie, Wirra and a Melbourne based team with early draft picks, when a book fell on my keyboard and I lost the lot

But basically it would be a way for:
- Des to come home
- Wirra to go home
- Brissie to make/retain room in their salary cap by drafting highly rated but cheap rookies, and perhaps pick up a second tier defender from the Melb club.

We'd lose Wirra and a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but gain Headland.
Brissie'd lose Des (massive loss, but at least theyd be getting something for him), but gain an early draft pick, plus a reliable but relatively cheap player, and relieve cap pressure.
Club 'X', would get Wirra and a lower draft pick... (which doesn't seem as reasonable as it did before Must've left something out).

Anyway, Brisbane don't seem to want to talk with us, but perhaps if other club(s) were involved there might be more they were interested in?

Overall, I just want for us to give it our best go.


(Chick - absolute tragedy, deepest sympathy to his family. Unfortunately I still wouldn't be interested unless he was a bargain)

Gaspar - no.
Stenglein - if the right deal was presented.

Why in the **** would we want to get rid of wirrupunda! He is a required player! For **** sakes ppl, we have a good list, just need to fine tune them a bit. We dont need to do any trading! Sure itd be nice to get Headland, but not for what he costs.
Wirra needs to stay in Perth!

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Why does Wirra need to stay in Perth? Yes he is a required player, but so are most of the players who are traded. You've got to give before you can recieve, and for where we are at, Headland is possibly of more value, imho of course.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
Why does Wirra need to stay in Perth? Yes he is a required player, but so are most of the players who are traded. You've got to give before you can recieve, and for where we are at, Headland is possibly of more value, imho of course.

yes but if we keep trading good players for good players then we'll never get stability in our team! I think Headland and Wirrupunda are about the same in value. Wirra needs to stay because he is so versatile, you can out him down forward, up back, centre etc etc. I just reckon we can get Headland for alot less...maybe a 2nd tier players ( the lions could want a young ruckmen, seaby???) but not a required player like wirra, cuzz, kerr or judd!

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by carlyp


yes but if we keep trading good players for good players then we'll never get stability in our team! I think Headland and Wirrupunda are about the same in value. Wirra needs to stay because he is so versatile, you can out him down forward, up back, centre etc etc. I just reckon we can get Headland for alot less...maybe a 2nd tier players ( the lions could want a young ruckmen, seaby???) but not a required player like wirra, cuzz, kerr or judd!

We won't get Headland for a 2nd tier player(s). It will probably require a Wirrpunda +.

Something to watch for, I don't know that Headland would be as effective for the Eagles immediately as he is for Brisbane. He has a reputation for only running one way, and whilst you can away with that with the Brissy centre/half back lines, the Eagles aren't as rounded in that area. We already have one player a bit like that (Judd), so Headland may have to change his game a bit if he does come home.

Having said all that, I'm sure he is capable of adapting. his size, strength, speed, agility and disposal should still make him our No 1 target. He may go slightly backwards next year, but it will make him a better all around player.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by larrikin

We won't get Headland for a 2nd tier player(s). It will probably require a Wirrpunda +.

Something to watch for, I don't know that Headland would be as effective for the Eagles immediately as he is for Brisbane. He has a reputation for only running one way, and whilst you can away with that with the Brissy centre/half back lines, the Eagles aren't as rounded in that area. We already have one player a bit like that (Judd), so Headland may have to change his game a bit if he does come home.

Having said all that, I'm sure he is capable of adapting. his size, strength, speed, agility and disposal should still make him our No 1 target. He may go slightly backwards next year, but it will make him a better all around player.

I think we could get him on the sly like this......
He nominates for the draft and we do a deal with the club that picks him up, likely carlton or st kilda, that way we could get him for a 2nd tier player! Could this be done?

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Originally posted by carlyp


yes but if we keep trading good players for good players then we'll never get stability in our team! I think Headland and Wirrupunda are about the same in value. Wirra needs to stay because he is so versatile, you can out him down forward, up back, centre etc etc. I just reckon we can get Headland for alot less...maybe a 2nd tier players ( the lions could want a young ruckmen, seaby???) but not a required player like wirra, cuzz, kerr or judd!

-Trading good for better is how you improve a squad.
-I believe Headland to be of significantly greater value to the Eagles right now.
-I don't think we'll get Des, but if we do I think we'll need to give up far more than an untried rookie or second teir player, and they're not really in need of a ruckman at the moment anyway.
-I'm not suggesting Cuz, Kerr or Juddy ever be traded.



But maybe thats just me.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
-Trading good for better is how you improve a squad.
/B]

look at the lions:
They won the wooden spoon with preety much the same list that won them a grandfinal last year (17/22)
They got a new coach and they all improved, I think it willl be similar with us.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Well we can hope can't we? I'm afraid I don't share your optimism / blind faith though. With Jako, Roo, Ash & Banners soon gone, we need to recruit ready made players, or else we'll be back in the slump we're just coming out of.

 

[larrikin]

Originally posted by carlyp


look at the lions:
They won the wooden spoon with preety much the same list that won them a grandfinal last year (17/22)
They got a new coach and they all improved, I think it willl be similar with us.

Brisbane had a fair head start. Most of the players were already there (developing - Black, Brown etc) and they just had to add a bit of experience in Pike etc. They also picked up some handy players with the concessions they were granted in the merger.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
Well we can hope can't we? I'm afraid I don't share your optimism / blind faith though. With Jako, Roo, Ash & Banners soon gone, we need to recruit ready made players, or else we'll be back in the slump we're just coming out of.

When the old heroes go...up jump Glass, Gasper, Seaby, Lynch etc etc!

 

[Kenny_01]

Carly wouldn't trade Wirrapunda, even if they offered you Black and Headland.

Headland is worth 2 Wirrapundas, and the Eagles would be crazy not to do the deal if they offered Headland for Wirrapunda + 2nd or 3rd round pick.