Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 3

[Hinkley29]

A lot of them are not as good as what other clubs like us have in the young talent space. Gibcus is very good if injury prone and I like brown but a lot of the rest are long shots to make it and role players at best.

My point is - how do you know if they are good or not? 15 of them are 22 or younger.

When players like Corey Enright, Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, etc were 22 years old they looked like propsects that might be good players or they might just be solid role players.

At this stage it is way to early to call on Richmond’s list.

 

[Hinkley29]

Two years for a guy who is one big hamstring away from The End is a bit much IMO. Look after, sure - but let's not divorce ourselves from the reality that he will be 35 in April.

2 years for our most important midfielder seems reasonable to me.

The fact that he is our captain, most important leader and an all time club great should also factor into it.

You don’t sell those guys short, if he is on the list for 1 year longer than he should be so be it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No, it was blown up for them

I would disagree with that.
Bolton had 4 years to run on his contract and was one of their best players in the middle age bracket. Ditto rioli. And they had lots of $ to keep both.
Baker was different but in general clearly either a) they believe the next few drafts are going to be very bad so they were desperate to get in now or b) they believe they won't contend for at least 5 years (ie they don't think their young core is good enough for them to contend in that time) so they may as well gut the list and start again.

Given TAS coming in its probably a bit of both but they clearly didn't have to blow up the list they chose to.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

My point is - how do you know if they are good or not? 15 of them are 22 or younger.

When players like Corey Enright, Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, etc were 22 years old they looked like propsects that might be good players or they might just be solid role players.

At this stage it is way to early to call on Richmond’s list.

Because like most of us I can ID talent.
Ryan hasnt shown much although to be fair talls take time. But his contract extension says more about their lack of talls than anything else.
Gibcus is very good but brittle.
Brown has shown a fair bit and will be a classy player.
Sonsie probably would have been delisted if they didn't have so many trade outs and ditto Dow and Ross. Those guys won't be on a list in a couple of years.
I liked Clarke as a junior but he's coming off an acl.
Ralpsmith is questionable and is a role player at best.
Kosi is a giant spud and was getting dropped by the end of the year.
I like Campbell and mcauliffe but some of their other younger guys like banks and green the jury is much out on.
Any other role players they have are older eg miller lefau and young are all 26. This is why they offered balta overs 7yrs to stay as the depth beneath him isn't there.

They have very little talent under 25 when you line up the names compared to what us and a lot of teams have.

Most of their best young talent isn't even drafted yet. They have a great hand this draft but even if 5 or 6 of them really come on they won't be competitive for at least 4or 5 years-and most of their better players over 25 will be in their twilight by then (taranto etc).

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Two years for a guy who is one big hamstring away from The End is a bit much IMO. Look after, sure - but let's not divorce ourselves from the reality that he will be 35 in April.

I agree and normally I hate 2 year deals but the reality is danger has been our best player for the large part of 10 years and has probably taken unders $ so we can trade other guys in. This is an extra year of salary that he's earnt and if he retires early we have the cap space to pay it out.

 

[Turbocat]

Two years for a guy who is one big hamstring away from The End is a bit much IMO. Look after, sure - but let's not divorce ourselves from the reality that he will be 35 in April.

I can see your point … I would submit that there is probably an element of reciprocation for less than market rate contract over an extended contract.

As long as there is a trust that if at any stage Dangers ability withers that they can come to an agreement then Im fine with it. I actually thought he might have been happy to pull the pin years ago when his ability seems to be plateauing or starting to decline but he has embraced the management in season .. so I feel he is a good chance to fulfil his contract to a good standard.

What does Danger see himself doing post footy? He would seem a better fit on TV than Joel but who knows. Maybe something inside the club. Id never have thought Mackie would be doing what he is doing.

 

[Footy Smarts]

My point is - how do you know if they are good or not? 15 of them are 22 or younger.

When players like Corey Enright, Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, etc were 22 years old they looked like propsects that might be good players or they might just be solid role players.

At this stage it is way to early to call on Richmond’s list.

As 21-23 year olds Corey, Chapman, Bartel, Ablett, Enright, Ling, etc were key members of a team that just fell short in a prelim.

At similar ages Dow, Ralphsmith, Banks, Brown, Sonsie, Ryan, Rioli, Trezise, Bauer, etc struggled to hold their spot in the worst team in the comp.

There might be an ok player or two in that group but come on. History shows the vast majority of those types won't make it and the chance of finding a star is very slim.

 

[cats_09]

Two years for a guy who is one big hamstring away from The End is a bit much IMO. Look after, sure - but let's not divorce ourselves from the reality that he will be 35 in April.

Think we’ll find that signing Dangerfield for 2-years is as much about list management, including retirement management as anything else

Between the retirements of Hawkins & Tuohy, and the delistings of Rohan & Parfitt, it’s 981 games of experience off the senior list in the past month

If we then look at the senior players out of contract at the end of next season we have, and their games played, it currently looks like:

• Jed Bews, 171
• Mark Blicavs, 270
• Cam Guthrie, 240
• Mitch Duncan, 296
• Rhys Stanley, 210

That’s 1187 games played between 5 experienced out of contract players before we even enter round 1; if we added in Dangerfield to that mix it would be 1524 games of experience

If we fast forward to those out of contract come 2026, that list is currently at:

• Patrick Dangerfield, 337
• Jake Kolodjashnij, 198
• Mark O’Connor, 122

That’s a total of 337 games of experience without Dangerfield and jumps to just 657 games with him as one of the 3 experienced out of contract players. With that games experience number currently being just half of the out of contract players for next year, it makes sense from that list management/retirement management plan to give Dangerfield that extra year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a player like Blicavs potentially also re-sign for an additional year for similar reasons

Losing too much experience in one hit is never ideal, so balancing out our known pending retirements over a perid of 3 or 4 years just seems like smart planning

 

[Hinkley29]

R

Because like most of us I can ID talent.
Ryan hasnt shown much although to be fair talls take time. But his contract extension says more about their lack of talls than anything else.
Gibcus is very good but brittle.
Brown has shown a fair bit and will be a classy player.
Sonsie probably would have been delisted if they didn't have so many trade outs and ditto Dow and Ross. Those guys won't be on a list in a couple of years.
I liked Clarke as a junior but he's coming off an acl.
Ralpsmith is questionable and is a role player at best.
Kosi is a giant spud and was getting dropped by the end of the year.
I like Campbell and mcauliffe but some of their other younger guys like banks and green the jury is much out on.
Any other role players they have are older eg miller lefau and young are all 26. This is why they offered balta overs 7yrs to stay as the depth beneath him isn't there.

They have very little talent under 25 when you line up the names compared to what us and a lot of teams have.

Most of their best young talent isn't even drafted yet. They have a great hand this draft but even if 5 or 6 of them really come on they won't be competitive for at least 4or 5 years-and most of their better players over 25 will be in their twilight by then (taranto etc).

Richmond have 10 players on their list who have played 10 games or less. And they are about to add ~7 more to their list.

Unless you are avid watcher of their VFL team your opinion of them is an uneducated guess at best.

 

[iameviljez]

What does Danger see himself doing post footy? He would seem a better fit on TV than Joel but who knows.

The man is an absolutely natural fit for TV. Might struggle with having to share the box with BT, though.

 

[Footy Smarts]

R

Richmond have 10 players on their list who have played 10 games or less. And they are about to add ~7 more to their list.

Unless you are avid watcher of their VFL team your opinion of them is an uneducated guess at best.

They're stuck playing VFL at the worst team in the comp.

My uneducated guess is that the coaching staff that see them day in and day out know more than a random fan.

Let's be honest, Clohesy and Knevitt, who I doubt will make it in any serious way, would've played every week for that team. They're better players and more likely to make it than guys like Dow and Ralphsmith who played most of the season.

 

[Kitcat]

Think we’ll find that signing Dangerfield for 2-years is as much about list management, including retirement management as anything else

Between the retirements of Hawkins & Tuohy, and the delistings of Rohan & Parfitt, it’s 981 games of experience off the senior list in the past month

If we then look at the senior players out of contract at the end of next season we have, and their games played, it currently looks like:

• Jed Bews, 171
• Mark Blicavs, 270
• Cam Guthrie, 240
• Mitch Duncan, 296
• Rhys Stanley, 210

That’s 1187 games played between 5 experienced out of contract players before we even enter round 1; if we added in Dangerfield to that mix it would be 1524 games of experience

If we fast forward to those out of contract come 2026, that list is currently at:

• Patrick Dangerfield, 337
• Jake Kolodjashnij, 198
• Mark O’Connor, 122

That’s a total of 337 games of experience without Dangerfield and jumps to just 657 games with him as one of the 3 experienced out of contract players. With that games experience number currently being just half of the out of contract players for next year, it makes sense from that list management/retirement management plan to give Dangerfield that extra year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a player like Blicavs potentially also re-sign for an additional year for similar reasons

Losing too much experience in one hit is never ideal, so balancing out our known pending retirements over a perid of 3 or 4 years just seems like smart planning

In addition, Danger attracts the media which is great for sponsors and the club. It also doesn’t hurt to have him speak to players we want to recruit.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

As 21-23 year olds Corey, Chapman, Bartel, Ablett, Enright, Ling, etc were key members of a team that just fell short in a prelim.

At similar ages Dow, Ralphsmith, Banks, Brown, Sonsie, Ryan, Rioli, Trezise, Bauer, etc struggled to hold their spot in the worst team in the comp.

There might be an ok player or two in that group but come on. History shows the vast majority of those types won't make it and the chance of finding a star is very slim.

Just out of interest how old was Joel Corey when Milburn hit Silvagni in that disgraceful game at Princess Park

That was the last game of the season , and after the game Dwayne Russel who was calling it on ABC Radio , basically went through every player on the Geel list with David Swan McKAY , and i can vividly remember Dwayne saying to McKay , will Joel Corey make it , and they were both non committall

Re Richmond - who i did watch a fair bit of , becauase i stupidly backed them to make the 8 , but i think there is tremendous risk for both Fremantle and West Coast , because Bolton and Baker wernt just bad in 24 - they were atrocious , both of them wernt worth 4 bob , and the old flick the switch and in 25 they will be good players again , i think there is plenty of risk that doesnt eventuate

 

[Gazza Greatness]

My point is - how do you know if they are good or not? 15 of them are 22 or younger.

When players like Corey Enright, Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, etc were 22 years old they looked like propsects that might be good players or they might just be solid role players.

At this stage it is way to early to call on Richmond’s list.

Disagree with this, NOT to early to call at all...... Enright, Corey, Chapman for the Cats always looked to me like being top prospects similar to Gibcus at Tigers currently, then we had the 2001 superdraft with Ablett, Bartel, Johnson and Kelly, which is what the Tigers will be relying or praying on heavily this year but even that will be years away if they did get lucky but the majority of their current list of young players are not going to be good footballers, that I'm certain. So if they don't crack it with this and next years drafts, they're going to be in a world of pain for at least a decade. But this current draft does show some merit, so there may be light at the end of the tunnel yet for the Tigers.

 

[Hinkley29]

They're stuck playing VFL at the worst team in the comp.

My uneducated guess is that the coaching staff that see them day in and day out know more than a random fan.

Let's be honest, Clohesy and Knevitt, who I doubt will make it in any serious way, would've played every week for that team. They're better players and more likely to make it than guys like Dow and Ralphsmith who played most of the season.

So your argument is, that Richmond were the worst team in the comp so anyone who couldn’t get a game for them is trash?

What you are actually saying is that you haven’t seen any of them play and are assuming that they don’t have any ability.

I would prefer to actually watch them play and make an assessment after 50-80 games, like we do with any other young prospect.

Having said all that, I don’t think i should comment any more about Richmond’s list in a gfc trade and draft thread because that could be construed as taking the thread off topic. And I do not want to do that and cop the ban that will no doubt be coming my way.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Just out of interest how old was Joel Corey when Milburn hit Silvagni in that disgraceful game at Princess Park

That was the last game of the season , and after the game Dwayne Russel who was calling it on ABC Radio , basically went through every player on the Geel list with David Swan McKAY , and i can vividly remember Dwayne saying to McKay , will Joel Corey make it , and they were both non committall

Re Richmond - who i did watch a fair bit of , becauase i stupidly backed them to make the 8 , but i think there is tremendous risk for both Fremantle and West Coast , because Bolton and Baker wernt just bad in 24 - they were atrocious , both of them wernt worth 4 bob , and the old flick the switch and in 25 they will be good players again , i think there is plenty of risk that doesnt eventuate

The Milburn-Silvagni thing was in 2001. Joel Corey was 19.

 

[Hinkley29]

Disagree with this, NOT to early to call at all...... Enright, Corey, Chapman for the Cats always looked to me like being top prospects similar to Gibcus at Tigers currently, then we had the 2001 superdraft with Ablett, Bartel, Johnson and Kelly, which is what the Tigers will be relying or praying on heavily this year but even that will be years away if they did get lucky but the majority of their current list of young players are not going to be good footballers, that I'm certain. So if they don't crack it with this and next years drafts, they're going to be in a world of pain for at least a decade. But this current draft does show some merit, so there may be light at the end of the tunnel yet for the Tigers.

You must have been looking at those early days of Enright, Corey, etc with much more optimistic eyes than me, because at the title they liked look good average players to me. We all know what they became, but early days they had warts like all young players. James Kelly was the only one who looked like a star from day 1, and his broken leg took the shine off his star for a while.

Ironically he was the one who ended up doing all the dirty jobs and was the unsung hero of the group.

 

[MacStradbroke]

So your argument is, that Richmond were the worst team in the comp so anyone who couldn’t get a game for them is trash?

What you are actually saying is that you haven’t seen any of them play and are assuming that they don’t have any ability.

I would prefer to actually watch them play and make an assessment after 50-80 games, like we do with any other young prospect.

Having said all that, I don’t think i should comment any more about Richmond’s list in a gfc trade and draft thread because that could be construed as taking the thread off topic. And I do not want to do that and cop the ban that will no doubt be coming my way.

Jhye Clark would love that third line to be true.

 

[D BRIDGE]

The man is an absolutely natural fit for TV. Might struggle with having to share the box with BT, though.

No doubt.

Danger won’t disappear into the night once he stops playing.

No chance at all.

 

[Footy Smarts]

So your argument is, that Richmond were the worst team in the comp so anyone who couldn’t get a game for them is trash? What you are actually saying is that you haven’t seen any of them play and are assuming that they don’t have any ability.

The irony is you're claiming you know them better than me. But I don't claim to know them better than you. I just claim that Yze, McQualter and Hardwick who repeatedly left out guys like Dow, Ryan, Cumberland, Ralphsmith, etc know a fair bit more than you.

 

[Hinkley29]

The irony is you're claiming you know them better than me. But I don't claim to know them better than you. I just claim that Yze, McQualter and Hardwick who repeatedly left out guys like Dow, Ryan, Cumberland, Ralphsmith, etc know a fair bit more than you.

But that is my point.

I am not claiming to know anything about them.

I am saying that we don’t know anything about them (the young guys), so we don’t know enough to judge their ability.

You seem to be magically projecting a view that they are crap without ever having seen them play.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Jhye Clark would love that third line to be true.

No deal! Must show something within 20 games or he's a bust!

#sarcasm

 

[Footy Smarts]

Just out of interest how old was Joel Corey when Milburn hit Silvagni in that disgraceful game at Princess Park

That was the last game of the season , and after the game Dwayne Russel who was calling it on ABC Radio , basically went through every player on the Geel list with David Swan McKAY , and i can vividly remember Dwayne saying to McKay , will Joel Corey make it , and they were both non committall

Corey didn't play that day but would've been 19 in his second season. Ling, Chapman and Enright were also at the end of their second season. Same as Jhye Clark now.

By that game (end of 2001) you would never have guessed how good the 1999 draft (Corey, Ling, Chapman and Enright) would be for us. But in 2002 all of them except Enright, who had injury issues, finished top 10 in the B&F in a team that looked finals bound most of the year.

Youngsters not showing heaps in their first 2 seasons is not a deal breaker. But generally for smalls to become excellent players you should be seeing them locked in the team by the end of year 3 and being important players by year 4.

Very occasionally you get an exception (eg Zach Guthrie) but it's rare. And Guthrie was being left out of teams going deep in finals not cellar dwellers.

 

[Footy Smarts]

But that is my point.

I am not claiming to know anything about them.

I am saying that we don’t know anything about them (the young guys), so we don’t know enough to judge their ability.

You seem to be magically projecting a view that they are crap without ever having seen them play.

And you seem to be under some wonderful delusional where getting dropped from the worst team in the comp means nothing. You really think their coaching staff are dropping future stars while playing Dow, Cumberland, etc? The first year guys have time but they couldn't scream any louder that they don't rate the rest of them.

Maybe listen to the guys who see them every day?

 

[Vdubs]

Because like most of us I can ID talent.
Ryan hasnt shown much although to be fair talls take time. But his contract extension says more about their lack of talls than anything else.
Gibcus is very good but brittle.
Brown has shown a fair bit and will be a classy player.
Sonsie probably would have been delisted if they didn't have so many trade outs and ditto Dow and Ross. Those guys won't be on a list in a couple of years.
I liked Clarke as a junior but he's coming off an acl.
Ralpsmith is questionable and is a role player at best.
Kosi is a giant spud and was getting dropped by the end of the year.
I like Campbell and mcauliffe but some of their other younger guys like banks and green the jury is much out on.
Any other role players they have are older eg miller lefau and young are all 26. This is why they offered balta overs 7yrs to stay as the depth beneath him isn't there.

They have very little talent under 25 when you line up the names compared to what us and a lot of teams have.

Most of their best young talent isn't even drafted yet. They have a great hand this draft but even if 5 or 6 of them really come on they won't be competitive for at least 4or 5 years-and most of their better players over 25 will be in their twilight by then (taranto etc).

Sonsie has a lot of ability- his best has not yet been unearthed.