Club Focus Gold Coast Suns 2024

[Ticky009]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

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[perplexed]

Not going to get into picks, what will be the deal for Rioli but my question to you is this.

Would a pick 2 draftee help Suns to play finals in 2025? This year pick 2 will be a midfielder. Do you think he will crack Suns midfield? Do you think he will be ready to move the needle? Look at Humphrey in his 2nd year still not being able to crack the middle.

Who was pick 3 last year? That's right, Walter. Did he help Suns in 2024? Or were Suns just putting games into him while he struggled. Most picks need time to develop.

Do Suns need more developing top talent right now besides Lombard joining them?

Mature best 22 players will help Suns more next year. Time for developing is over. It's time to win. Alternative is not pretty.

Suns have a lot talent on the list already. FWIW, this year Lombard, next year Zeke Uwland and most probably more academy kids coming in.

Rioli is a good but not great half back, I don't see how he moves the dial. You guys have a good enough list that you should be making finals already. As for half-backs, you have Luko who is better kick who could play the role just as well as Rioli, who you are pushing out, probably at a discount. Keep Luko and ignore Rioli and you get a top pick thrown in.

As for high drafts picks, some do make an immediate impact, some don't. Walter is a power forward, those guys always need time. An outside mid, or flanker, not so much. Sheezel, Ashcroft, Watson, Reid, McKercher, Daicos, JHF, all from the last three drafts, have improved their teams more than Rioli will. A little immediately, a heap in the long term.

We have been through a few coaches recently, and they all seem keen on bringing in favourite staff or players with them. They have mostly been duds. This looks like one of those situations.

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

Time to abandon this Rioli nonsense.

6 + 12 > 2. Gets safely ahead of the Lombard bid and choice of player at the top of the draft. Pick 2 is a much better result than Dan.

With the top end so even there is no guarantee pick 2 is better than pick 6. I can see how North would love this trade though. But the Suns don't need another gun 18 year midfielder on top of Lombard this year and at least Uwland next year.

I agree the price being suggested for Rioli is too high, but it seems like Dimma wants him. He will improve the best 22 immediately and that's what the Suns really need to do.

 

[perplexed]

With the top end so even there is no guarantee pick 2 is better than pick 6. I can see how North would love this trade though. But the Suns don't need another gun 18 year midfielder on top of Lombard this year and at least Uwland next year.

I agree the price being suggested for Rioli is too high, but it seems like Dimma wants him. He will improve the best 22 immediately and that's what the Suns really need to do.

If the price is too high, you don't pay it. And Dimma is struggling enough with his own job that he shouldn't be trying to do other people's as well. We always seem to have this problem with coaches too. I think they use these dalliances into list management as a cover for their own failures.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Rioli is a good but not great half back, I don't see how he moves the dial. You guys have a good enough list that you should be making finals already. As for half-backs, you have Luko who is better kick who could play the role just as well as Rioli, who you are pushing out, probably at a discount. Keep Luko and ignore Rioli and you get a top pick thrown in.

As for high drafts picks, some do make an immediate impact, some don't. Walter is a power forward, those guys always need time. An outside mid, or flanker, not so much. Sheezel, Ashcroft, Watson, Reid, McKercher, Daicos, JHF, all from the last three drafts, have improved their teams more than Rioli will. A little immediately, a heap in the long term.

We have been through a few coaches recently, and they all seem keen on bringing in favourite staff or players with them. They have mostly been duds. This looks like one of those situations.

I wouldn't include 6 as part of the deal, 12 and 20 should be plenty for Rioli. Agree with most of what you're saying, top end picks particularly playing off a wing or back flank don't take time to develop, could even throw Windsor into that group. But as mentioned before, I think pick 6 is nearly as good as 2 in this years draft, so there's no need to throw away 12 as well.

I disagree with your assessment of Rioli, he's a top 50 in the competition talent and his maturity and experience (alongside Noble) will help move the needle enough to finally make finals, i just think we are so use to overpaying and are too narrow minded in the strengths of what Rioli will bring that we ignore all the other problems we have.. i think we are so desperate to make finals that winning the premiership feels like future GC problems

 

[THE_GUN]

If the price is too high, you don't pay it. And Dimma is struggling enough with his own job that he shouldn't be trying to do other people's as well. We always seem to have this problem with coaches too. I think they use these dalliances into list management as a cover for their own failures.

You are under rating Dimma massively
He is not doing other peoples job he is doing his own job of coaching a team he wants to make finals and win flags
He wants the team to play to his game style and needs specific pieces that are ready to go that know exactly what he wants and Daniel Rioli is the player he wants running lines through half back. its not about the player as much as it is about the game style he wants them to play.

Sure they could get pick #2 and end up with the next Wardlaw who might be good for them in 3-4 years time but that doesnt fill the void he wants to in 2025

Or he ends up with the next Will Phillips

 

[Jirik13]

You are under rating Dimma massively
He is not doing other peoples job he is doing his own job of coaching a team he wants to make finals and win flags
He wants the team to play to his game style and needs specific pieces that are ready to go that know exactly what he wants and Daniel Rioli is the player he wants running lines through half back. its not about the player as much as it is about the game style he wants them to play.

Sure they could get pick #2 and end up with the next Wardlaw who might be good for them in 3-4 years time but that doesnt fill the void he wants to in 2025

Or he ends up with the next Will Phillips

I have to agree with this assessment. Dimma is adding to list to suit his system.

I just struggle to understand some line-ups decisions this year. E.g., what was the purpose to play Holman on the wing after bye? Only Dimma knows, I guess Plenty more examples.

 

[perplexed]

You are under rating Dimma massively

Dimma had a shocker this year. It happens, but the game plan was a mess and a bigger issue than the personnel.

He is not doing other peoples job he is doing his own job of coaching a team he wants to make finals and win flags
He wants the team to play to his game style and needs specific pieces that are ready to go that know exactly what he wants and Daniel Rioli is the player he wants running lines through half back. its not about the player as much as it is about the game style he wants them to play.

If it's not about the player that is fine. Though I think he has a couple on the list already who could fill this role. If the brief is 'Get me a running half-back who can use it well', then okay. If it is 'I want Dan Rioli at any price' it isn't.

Sure they could get pick #2 and end up with the next Wardlaw who might be good for them in 3-4 years time but that doesnt fill the void he wants to in 2025

Or he ends up with the next Will Phillips

Or he gets the next Sheezel, Ashcroft or Daicos - who comes in and plays Rioli's role better than he can from day 1. Using the Phillips example is disingenuous. We all know that draft was an anomaly due to covid. Very few top 3 picks these days are duds.

 

[Jirik13]

As for half-backs, you have Luko who is better kick who could play the role just as well as Rioli

Very different players, not even close to play the same role. Dimma wants Rioli to take the game on, break lines, use his speed. I feel you underrate Rioli. He was in top 50 players this year according to Champion Data (if you believe it).

As you know both Dew and Dimma tried Luko in the backline for many games. Both moving him forward tells you how it worked out.

 

[Jirik13]

Or he gets the next Sheezel, Ashcroft or Daicos - who comes in and plays Rioli's role better than he can from day 1. Using the Phillips example is disingenuous. We all know that draft was an anomaly due to covid. Very few top 3 picks these days are duds.

How many players can we accomodate in the middle (and that's what pick 2, 6 will be)?

Anderson, Rowell, Miller, Flanders. Graham showed enormous promise this year. Dimma convinced Davies to stay. Humphrey wants to play in the middle. Bloody hell, even Flanders played forward at the end of season.

Rioli, Noble will have way more impact than talented pick 2 midfielder. It's not like Suns can afford to wait. If Suns don't play finals next year or year after it could be another exodus like Lynch and others.

I have some doubts about Dimma but it's in his hands like it or not. He put a lot games into kids this year after initial 3 rounds. Often top 3 youngest line-ups.

As for list needs, most people were saying Suns need speed, line breaks at HB. Rioli and Noble should cover it.

Then people want to get a winger. Trying Fiorini and Holman there was not impressive. Rioli and Noble coming in should release Powell and Weller for the role. Clohesy took his chance on the other wing.

Finally, people scream for small forward after Rankine departure. I think Rogers and even Lombard in first year will do. Rosas staying after kick in the butt should do fine too.

 

[THE_GUN]

Not to mention you take a top end pick like Elijah Hollands then after 3 years of development cant play him in his position and end up trading him for cents on the dollar

Kids like Rowell , King , Ballard , Andrew , Anderson etc will want to be winning now as its their time now
You dont want to be that almost team constantly banking kids then leaking from the other side

Players stay for less when they are winning or have hope of a flag but where GC are at the moment it would be easy to move the kids

Dimma needs to set the team to start winning NOW not in 3-4 years time
4 1st rounders last year
1 more this year
3 more next year from the looks of it

Last thing GC need are even more 18 year olds

 

[Scotty_222]

Not to mention you take a top end pick like Elijah Hollands then after 3 years of development cant play him in his position and end up trading him for cents on the dollar

Kids like Rowell , King , Ballard , Andrew , Anderson etc will want to be winning now as its their time now
You dont want to be that almost team constantly banking kids then leaking from the other side

Players stay for less when they are winning or have hope of a flag but where GC are at the moment it would be easy to move the kids

Dimma needs to set the team to start winning NOW not in 3-4 years time
4 1st rounders last year
1 more this year
3 more next year from the looks of it

Last thing GC need are even more 18 year olds

To be fair they tried hollands in multiple positions in the vfl and didn’t look to get anywhere near it.

 

[THE_GUN]

To be fair they tried hollands in multiple positions in the vfl and didn’t look to get anywhere near it.

Thats weird what changed when he went to Carlton
He looks like exactly the type of player GC would need a high half foward that kicks goals

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Thats weird what changed when he went to Carlton
He looks like exactly the type of player GC would need a high half foward that kicks goals

Put all our eggs in the Bailey Humphrey basket, some think that bear is better than Rankine

 

[THE_GUN]

Put all our eggs in the Bailey Humphrey basket

Thats the problem when you have too many talented kids
They all want to play and end up leaving in 3 years just before they are ready to leave

picking another mid at #6 and not having spots to give him games could end up wanting out then wasting 3 years development and getting chips in return. compared to getting Rioli and and instant impact in an area of need and 100+ games next 5-6 years

It is a juggling act and a decision the coach makes based upon list he has and what he needs
on another topic how many indigenous players will GC have on the list for 25

 

[The Nostradamus]

Have Gc lost all their extra rookie list spots and back to the same list size rule?

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Thats the problem when you have too many talented kids
They all want to play and end up leaving in 3 years just before they are ready to leave

picking another mid at #6 and not having spots to give him games could end up wanting out then wasting 3 years development and getting chips in return. compared to getting Rioli and and instant impact in an area of need and 100+ games next 5-6 years

It is a juggling act and a decision the coach makes based upon list he has and what he needs
on another topic how many indigenous players will GC have on the list for 25

Hollands wanted to stay

 

[Iva Bigun]

Dew had his favourites such as your list but i think in total, lost the playing group. It was my understanding that if you were outside the purple circle he didn't have much time for you. Perhaps if he wasn't blowing smoke up lukos butt he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. However, it was a similar strategy chocco williams and kevin sheedy used with the inaugural giants which served them well

I actually think it was a pie chart

BTW Dew used to live around the corner from me here beach side in Mermaid Beach, I used to see him all the time but not anymore , anyone know if he’s moved?

 

[Iva Bigun]

Rioli is a good but not great half back, I don't see how he moves the dial. You guys have a good enough list that you should be making finals already. As for half-backs, you have Luko who is better kick who could play the role just as well as Rioli, who you are pushing out, probably at a discount. Keep Luko and ignore Rioli and you get a top pick thrown in.

As for high drafts picks, some do make an immediate impact, some don't. Walter is a power forward, those guys always need time. An outside mid, or flanker, not so much. Sheezel, Ashcroft, Watson, Reid, McKercher, Daicos, JHF, all from the last three drafts, have improved their teams more than Rioli will. A little immediately, a heap in the long term.

We have been through a few coaches recently, and they all seem keen on bringing in favourite staff or players with them. They have mostly been duds. This looks like one of those situations.

As a long suffering Kangas fan ( pre the Suns existence) I understand your pain. The Roos had Pagan under their own roof and took far too long ( a decade) to understand he was a coaching savant, oh what could of been

 

[Jirik13]

Have Gc lost all their extra rookie list spots and back to the same list size rule?

yes

 

[Jirik13]

Hollands wanted to stay

Hollands is goose, IMO. Full of himself, not defending well, soft in contest. Some Blues fans started to complain about him.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Hollands is goose, IMO. Full of himself, not defending well, soft in contest. Some Blues fans started to complain about him.

How did you like Bailey Humphrey's body language when he was getting subbed? I thought it was pretty figjam. More tackles, equal in pressure acts but nearly double the effective possessions for Hollands

 

[Iva Bigun]

Very different players, not even close to play the same role. Dimma wants Rioli to takes game on, break lines, use his speed. I feel you underrate Rioli. He was in top 50 players this year according to Champion Data (if you believe it).

As you know both Dew and Dimma tried Luko in the backline for many games. Both moving him forward tells you how it worked out.

Personally I think Rioli has been the beneficiary of the tigers being awful, he has seen plenty of the ball as it’s always in their backline, we are going to pay overs on his best ever year so it’s overs on overs as far as I am concerned.

Yes I want us to play finals and yes Dimma has the right to mold the club as he sees fit but personally I think it’s a mistake

I hope I’m wrong

 

[Jirik13]

How did you like Bailey Humphrey's body language when he was getting subbed? I thought it was pretty figjam. More tackles, equal in pressure acts but nearly double the effective possessions for Hollands

Not sure why you bring Humphrey into it.

For you, IMO, Humphrey > Hollands every time both as a footballer and person but he did have 2nd years blues.

Hollands was pathetic in VFL except finals. Mostly lazy, did not work hard. Not missing him.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Not sure why you bring Humphrey into it.

For you, IMO, Humphrey > Hollands every time both as a footballer and person but he did have 2nd years blues.

Hollands was pathetic in VFL except finals. Mostly lazy, did not work hard. Not missing him.

I didn't.

The gun did.

I was saying we were happy to let hollands go because we put all our eggs in the humphrey basket.

 

[THE_GUN]

Personally I think Rioli has been the beneficiary of the tigers being awful, he has seen plenty of the ball as it’s always in their backline, we are going to pay overs on his best ever year so it’s overs on overs as far as I am concerned.

Yes I want us to play finals and yes Dimma has the right to mold the club as he sees fit but personally I think it’s a mistake

I hope I’m wrong

Rioli has been doing exactly what he has done this year for the past 3 -4 years
think you are under selling him here.

The blues gave up a similar pick for saad a few years ago before he was the player he is today and ill tell you guys 1 thing
Daniel Rioli will be loved by every suns supporter once he is at the club and the pick you paid wont mean anything to them in 12 months time