Review Good vs Carlton

[feenix67]

Not that this was their preferred midfield - not really sure it is at this point. More that they wanted to move away from the exclusive Crouch/Laird/Dawson setup and find other roles for those players while introducing more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele, but that they would make it a gradual transition to avoid being too 'destabilising', or similar.

I expect we'll see more of it as well, though Crouch being suspended will change things.

Ignoring the fact that this contradicts the messaging we've heard from the club for the first month, the change in personnel did not happen in isolation. We also saw a dramatic change in how we played - more speed, more willingness to change lanes, more possessions in forward chains resulting in deeper entries to a less crowded F50, defenders playing higher.

We've heard for a month that the "data" showed the mix was right, the gameplan was sound and it was just the players weren't executing and were out of form. Now we get this line of "gradual change" blah blah. It's bullshit spun by a salesperson who was told to change his approach or leave the premises.

 

[George Kramer]

Not that this was their preferred midfield - not really sure it is at this point. More that they wanted to move away from the exclusive Crouch/Laird/Dawson setup and find other roles for those players while introducing more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele, but that they would make it a gradual transition to avoid being too 'destabilising', or similar.

I expect we'll see more of it as well, though Crouch being suspended will change things.

So if we were winning we would have seen todays midfield anyway because it was all part of the plan?

 

[George Kramer]

Ignoring the fact that this contradicts the messaging we've heard from the club for the first month, the change in personnel did not happen in isolation. We also saw a dramatic change in how we played - more speed, more willingness to change lanes, more possessions in forward chains resulting in deeper entries to a less crowded F50, defenders playing higher.

We've heard for a month that the "data" showed the mix was right, the gameplan was sound and it was just the players weren't executing and were out of form. Now we get this line of "gradual change" blah blah. It's bullshit spun by a salesperson who was told to change his approach or leave the premises.

But some are believing it so it’s worked to an extent. No coach in their right mind would make gradual changes to get to their preferred midfield whilst losing instead of going to what they thought was the winning combination from the get go.

 

[NSolis]

So if we were winning we would have seen todays midfield anyway because it was all part of the plan?

Well not if we won the first two games, since that was the catalyst for the whole thing. But let's say we came over the top of Melbourne last week, yes I think so.

 

[George Kramer]

Well not if we won the first two games. But let's say we came over the top of Melbourne last week, yes I think so.

But you wouldn’t have had the gradual change, they would have kept going with the winning midfield.

Your position is beyond delusional. I can not believe you’ve lapped up the bullshit they are spinning now. Let me guess, you also believed the previous weeks talking points too?

The system is fine, the midfield set up is fine, the players are just out of form.
We know what the issue is now, it’s the shape but the players didn’t execute.
We knew what we were doing, we were applying the gradual change technique and see it worked!!

 

[Sanders]

The point is that the midfield mix has been changing. In round 2, 81% of our CBAs were Dawson/Crouch/Laird. We lost that game badly, the team and the coaching staff got lots of criticism including for the 'vanilla' midfield, and the club mentioned in a range of venues during that week that they'd be looking at alternative options in the midfield. So yeah, that's the team responding to criticism which you can call 'kicking and screaming' if you want. Certainly would have been good if the criticism was never needed.

Since then the Dawson/Crouch/Laird CBA share has gone 71% against Freo, 62% against Melbourne and this week was 51%. Not sure how you can see that as anything other than a staged change over several weeks, because that's what it obviously is. Unless you think the CBA mix is totally random and they never thought about it at all until today.

Just to be clear I never said anything about 'master coaching'. I think these changes should have been implemented pre-season, especially given Rankine was training with the midfield. It's possible Soligo's injury disrupted the plans but still, going in with nothing but Dawson/Crouch/Laird/Berry in week one and then just dropping Berry from that mix for round two was dumb. But it's clear that the decision to begin moving away from that mix was made after the Geelong game.

I’d argue that was a reluctance to change, a baby steps progression without conviction

 

[Sanders]

A way more obvious and parsimonious explanation is just that they saw the need to move to a mix with more Soligo/Rankine/Rachele but wanted to do it gradually over time rather than all at once.

I can’t even imagine the logic for why this would be a good thing?

Why would you stagger a gradual move away from a burning building?

 

[George Kramer]

I can’t even imagine the logic for why this would be a good thing?

Why would you stagger a gradual move away from a burning building?

Because that’s what the coaches said. I’m just really staggered anyone is buying this bullshit. Fair dinkum we have some gullible supporters.

Yeah let’s lose by not playing our preferred midfield, we will be fine when we get there eventually when we are 0-4

 

[StonesThrow]

Think things half clicked last week. This week they fully clicked plus a few key changes obviously helped (Rankine, fast ball movement).

That was a bloody good win and completely unexpected. Probably the best win we've had in years imo.

Skills finally looked sharp (Hinge especially). Call out selection and coaching yeah, but it makes it bloody hard when every second kick misses a target.

Not sure why it took 5 weeks to get our ball movement back. Forward handballs and overlap run just suddenly appears??

Good:

Hinge underrated game. When he's playing well we tend to play well imo. He's important when he's on. Hopefully he's regained form. Kicking excellent.

Keane. Seriously good player already. Can't wait to get Murray back with him, Worrell and Max.

Soligo excellent. Looked to get more consistent time on the ball?

Rankine on the ball and that clever goal on the line.

Tex

Rachele looked like a player on a mission in the 1st half. Great to see. Need that every week now.

Worrell again. Gun.

Crouch was fantastic imo.

Berry good sub. Think there's only a few of us left that like this guy. He's got power and should be our inside bull. Put class on the outside. Glad he had a better snap than his first attempt that somehow only went about 25m (Rankine caught it).

Nankervis is and AFL player for sure. Composed.

Keays important moments. It's hard to not like this guy even though you never wanna see the ball in his hands.

Hamill is really hated here, but he was solid and rarely made a mistake.

Jones looked pretty good for the most part.

Average:

Cook. Quiet but showed serious flashes of class. That kick in the 50 and handball over his head while being tackled. There's talent there, please harness it.



Bad :

Butts was a liability. Please don't give him the ball. Would honestly play Borlase over him at the moment.

McHenry. Are we done with this guy yet?

Fog just can't take a trick this year. He gets burnt so often on the lead, but he's not doing himself any favours with his dropped marks. Seems to go through stages of being real shite with his marking.

Not playing Nank round 1. This is almost the worst call we've made all year. He obviously has it.

Failing to mix up the midfield for 4 weeks. Bizarre

 

[StonesThrow]

Smith cooked again.

Dawson played a captain game with his toughness, but still looked off. Disposal and decision making not quite right

 

[MrBarry]

May have gone unnoticed, but how in the hell did Rankine not get a free kick at that throw in that Berry had the snap from. Basically got driven into the turf off the back of the pack without the ball...

Had Berry missed, we would be talking about that as a horrible missed free kick.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

If you could return the favour that would be appreciated.

 

[TryAnHit]

 

[AFC979810]

That's what I think he was saying

Look up Sketch.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Just let the kid celebrate how he *in wants - it lifts the team and supporters.

If anything, our team needs a little personality

And our coaches need to nurture said talent/personality (which they partially did today - Rash needs more mid minutes)

 

[AFC979810]

Where you been for the first month?

Keays has been solid all year IMO.

1st in Goals after 5 games and 2nd in Goal Assists at our club. Has been handy and the least of our problems.

 

[Firewalker]

Tell you what watched the replay this is one of the more remarkable wins especially considering Laird, McHenry, Fogarty, Smith, ROB, Crouch for 3 quarters & Dawson at times were all dog sh*t and sabotaging a lot of good work from younger players around them.

Keays, Walker, Nankervis, Keane & Rachele kept them in the game in the 1st half, and then Soligo & Rankine’s 2nd halves, Jones & Hinge’s efforts and Crouch & Berry’s last quarter’s just gets them over the line.

One thing that totally sh*ts me is when a ball carrier like a Dawson or Soligo gets the ball from a stoppage or contested situation rather than one player going to shepherd for him to protect him from a oncoming tackler and the other player offering an outlet option both players instead will just call for the ball as an outlet and leave the ball carrier totally exposed, Crouch the absolute worse at these just refuses to protect the ball carrier and just wants him to give him the ball for a cheap stat.

Overall can’t see having that many passengers and relying on inexperienced midfielders and a 34 year old forward to magically pull you out of the mire and conjure up a remarkable victory out of nowhere is ever going to be something you can rely on happening too many more times in a season, a remarkable yet lucky victory given the goal to Owies that wasn’t given and that a wasteful Carlton should’ve wrapped up the game early in the last quarter.

 

[ams4crows]

The whole bench, players coaches trainers all celebrating Berry's goal while Laird sat there like a stunned mullet. Just a stat merchant these days.

 

[SellarStardom]

Watch the last 2 mins if you want to be really angry. Carlton player deliberate punches ball over the boundary line = free kick every other game

Then in the dying minute, as already mentioned, Izak is completely dumped off the ball = if a Carlton forward or P.Cripps it's a free kick

Terrible umpiring

 

[AFC979810]

Good:

Nicks moved around the defensive unit and maneuvered Worrell to be the 3rd man up after qtr time. McKay had 4 contested marks in the first quarter and 2 for the rest of the game. Good move.

Hinge looked like 2023 Hinge.

Nank - shows he belongs at this level - kid just has it. Must play every game for the rest of the year.

I don't think there was one CBA where Laird & Crouch were there together.

Great:

Rachele - Oozes class.
Rankine - See Rachele.

Bad:

With a competent coach we are 4-1 or 3-2 IMO.

These A***holes have given us hope. We are currently one game out of the 8. Beat Essendon and then we have North - what does it look like at 3-4?!?!?

Ugly:

How could Nicks be that blind for the first month with regards to our midfield

FOG - Simply put the 4 million excuses have run out. Dare I say - mentally weak. Cannot get separation, brick hands. 2 kicks for a player in our leadership group is unacceptable.

McHenry - Not good enough.

 

[footy4ever]

McHenry should've been subbed off and delisted at 3/4 time.

Yes, two seasons ago!

 

[finn]

Berry Good...

View attachment 1958511

The two handballs (Crouch? and Keays) to set him were very very good.

 

[jenny61_99]

McHenry should've been subbed off and delisted at 3/4 time.

Whilst I don’t disagree, he did do a couple of things that directly contributed to goals in that last quarter.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Whilst I don’t disagree, he did do a couple of things that directly contributed to goals in that last quarter.

McHenry's last quarter:
0 kicks
0 handballs
0 marks
0 tackles
0 score involvements

83% time on ground

I agree that it was his best quarter

 

[jenny61_99]

I’d argue that was a reluctance to change, a baby steps progression without conviction

Look I think both of you are essentially saying the same thing. They WERE reluctant to change it (back the boys in) but the losses and criticisms have forced their hand and they have done it in stages until we get to todays mix. George’s “Nicks bad so therefore can’t possibly be credited for anything good” stance is just silly. The proof will be in the pudding though, moving forward from this point.