GWS are going to win the premiership

[go you pups]

It seems like it is going to take a long time for many Victorians to realize that the game doesn't belong to them.

It's an Australian game, always has been. The sooner that sinks in the easier it will be for everyone.

Hilarious generalisation

I was rapt for Brisbane and Sydney to break through when they did. Sydney West Coast was one of the greatest rivalries I've ever seen, and I'm over this Geelong Hawthorn thing and would like a Showdown or Derby on a Friday night for a change on FTA, or the Sydney Derby/Q Clash on FTA also, all them games are on Foxtel normally except the odd Showdown.

I want Brisbane to build their way back up the ladder like what Melbourne are doing currently, I'd love to see Freo win a flag etc and I have no issues with Gold Coast and I hope they succeed up there but I have fears they're just another Bears/90s Freo

GWS on the otherhand, much different story.

 

[sherb]

Hilarious generalisation

I was rapt for Brisbane and Sydney to break through when they did. Sydney West Coast was one of the greatest rivalries I've ever seen, and I'm over this Geelong Hawthorn thing.

I want Brisbane to build their way back up the ladder like what Melbourne are doing currently, I'd love to see Freo win a flag etc and I have no issues with Gold Coast and I hope they succeed up there but I have fears they're just another Bears/90s Freo

GWS on the otherhand, much different story.

Actually it wasn't a generalization.

I put the word "many" in there for that very reason.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yes, I understand that. But the point was GWS have not benefitted anywhere near as much from those mini-draft picks as suggested.

How have they not? They received multiple high draft picks - the fact they may have butchered some of them is irrelevant.

That's a complete assumption. You can't know that.

An assumption based on a deduction of logic. They were third after round 10, 2014. They were 8th after round 16. Ablett, the indisputable best player in the comp, does his shoulder and has barely played since. Swallow, O'Meara and Prestia all showed how good they will be. They've hardly played the last 2 seasons. It's a pretty fair assumption that had their midfield not been decimated with injuries to their star players they'd be competing in finals by now.

And again, other clubs have advantages. Freo have signed exactly one father/son pick in their lifetime, yet Melbourne had a BnF winner in the form of Jack Viney hand delivered to them as recently as 3 years ago. GC and GWS won't have father/son eligible players for 2 decades. Fairness?

Father sons come along maybe once or twice a decade - if you're lucky you'll get a very good one like Viney or Darcy Moore. The Academies more than offset that with their access to multiple priority picks every single year.

If we want to make the competition really eQual, let's get rid of father/son selections.

Agreed, their time has come. Get rid of Academies too.

And let's have it so that every club in the league has to spend the exact same amount on their footy department regardless of revenue.

Unnecessary. We're talking about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

And let's have a 17 game fixture where everyone plays each other once.

Agreed. And a proper rotating fixture where certain teams don't dominate timeslots, stadiums, FTA exposure etc This goes for ALL teams, the Giants and Crows should get equal exposure to the Pies and Tigers.

And let's rotate the Grand Final around the country so Melbourne teams aren't advantaged.

Unlikely to happen anytime soon with contracts and probably shouldn't. It isn't much of an advantage either way come GF day. But it probably will happen at some point in the future.

But no, this competition isn't eQual. Never has been, never will be. At least GWS are getting advantages for the potential overall betterment of the game in this country. Potential short-term pain for 16 other clubs, potential long-term gain for 18 clubs.

Fabricated success to one or two teams is not better for the game overall regardless how you paint it. Setting up the expansion clubs to be competitive footy clubs was all that should have been done. I agree, no one wanted to see the Bad News Bears again or early 90's Swans. But that was more about setting them up off-field. The concessions they received were so over the top, even compared to the Suns, that it was outright hubris. The Hawks have won 3 on the trot. Most supporters don't like them but they damn sure respect them. No one will respect the Giants.

 

[Bokonon]

Never said that.

Keep spinning things though and sticking up for your manufactured lifeless club

Haha

 

[PP34]

What rubbish.

You think the only reason for negotiating the best possible broadcast rights deals is for personal profit and propping up expansion sides?

Where's your tinfoil hat?

You said: 'Who cares about money?'

That approach would translate to an inferior deal if adopted by the AFL.

It's laughable that they should want the most lucrative broadcast deal?

You're not making any sense.

What are you talking about? You're just ranting.

Yeah, that's still a product.

Poor you.

When have the modern AFL ever gave any shits about anything else? It's all about money, money, money. Everything is about damage control with them. It's blatant.

I said who cares about money, yep. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting the AFL should ask for the worst deal possible, but not thinking about milking the most money for once wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

Seriously, how you can be so supportive of how money driven the AFL is. Before it was like this, I used to enjoy the game because it wasn't completely money dominated like overseas sports were. Now there's honestly no difference and I find myself far more interested in other sports where the integrity of the game isn't ruined for at least the next decade.

If you don't think the media is hugely influential in what the AFL is today, you must be blind. Plain and simply put.

 

[dave123]

If you actually stopped to think for a minute, this would actually be one of the longer term aims of having an AFL side based in Western Sydney.

In other words you haven't earned this sucssess

You've been gifted it

 

[Glorious couch life]

That's a powerful argument.

The examples were listed below so your first sentence is pointless. Don't go early

The fixture is lopsided but I don't see how it's deliberately skewed to benefit certain clubs over others.

If you want to cut it back to 17 H&A games, there's an argument for that but it would mean shortening the season by a month. I don't think it's a given that this would be a net positive.

The draw is weighted to favour clubs according to their finishing position the previous year. That, along with derby and blockbuster games can affect the difficulty of a side's draw each year. But keep the money rolling in and all's well.

It seems like only yesterday people were saying Sydney are gifted undue advantages. Now they're the victims.

Sydney have been gifted undue advantages (which extends to clearing players to play off in certain GF's), but it was the AFL who gifted them. If the AFL sets the framework, it's not the club's fault if they exploit the inherent advantages. In the example I gave, Sydney were penalised for doing so. Which stinks, and further compromises the integrity of the competition.

It's interesting how things shift around to suit the grievance du jour.

My beef hasn't shifted anywhere - it's always been with the AFL.

That's a matter of opinion on whether it was excessive and it's not a given that GWS are going to dominate.

The Suns got similar concessions and they don't seem to be sure things. So maybe GWS deserve some credit as well for running a tight ship instead of just having any success dismissed as being handed to them by the AFL. It didn't work out for the Suns so clearly concessions don't just automatically translate to dominance.

You must have missed the part where I acknowledged GWS had played their hand well. That said, I do think their concessions were more generous than the Gold Coast's, and the Sun's have really stuffed up their opportunity (along with a terrible injury run).

Also, you complain about the draft concessions but GWS have backed themselves to build a list and retain and develop that young talent, even though they've lost a few along the way. Surely that is more credible – and less deleterious to the objective of a level playing field – than the GC route of simply buying the best player in the league.

You must have missed the part where I acknowledged GWS had played their hand well.

I would rather have the expansion sides up and running and playing well – like GWS – than being a basket case headed for a complete overhaul because they can't retain players – like GC. People can complain about them getting concessions but the GWS outcome is undoubtedly better for the competition as a whole than the GC outcome.

I like the idea of expansion, but I don't accept the notion that we have to engineer success. It should be earned.

GWS have made a better fist of things than the Gold Coast. Credit to them. I would contend that that while their strategy has been sound, their drafting has been middle of the road. Being allowed to work in a framework where most of your team is comprised of first round draft picks suggests to me that success is bound to come - the draft bungles can always be replaced with other top picks. Or offloaded to clubs who've had to pick up lesser players out of compromised drafts. If the Sun's had adopted a similar strategy I think there's little doubt they'd be up and about by now.

As for being better for the competition, I just don't accept that. I'd rather see teams compete on as level playing field as possible.

OK, I'm sure everyone will be keeping an eye out for that on the back of your expert tip.

The AFL is driven by the $, and will react if given enough incentive. Given that the competition is bankrolled by just a few clubs, I don't think it'll be too long after the GWS flags roll in for these clubs to tell the AFL to pull their head in.

 

[dave123]

Well, from the academy so far you have Dougal Howard and Logan Austin at Port, Jock Cornell at Geelong and Nick Coughlan at St Kilda. This year there'll be a few more because there's no way we can take all the good academy kids that will be draft eligible, so somebody is going to benefit - maybe even your club.

Swing and a miss.

Oh the Academy .....Where a bucket load of cash and resources is thrown at players for development

If the other clubs were allowed academies then they would produce that also

Again ...lets get this clear

Cola
Draft picks galore
Soft draw
Academy

And you reckon you've earned your wins .......really

 

[PP34]

The funny thing is that a Carlton supporting clown liked his post.

I was at the 79 Grand Final cheering on the Blues from the outer.

I don't need to be told by imbeciles who I do or don't support simply because I have an open minded view of the game.

Yep, you're right. Manufacturing success in a area where footy really isn't all that popular is going to work a treat.

When will the AFL come to realise that kids jump on and off bandwagons, and trying to establish a footy heartland on the back of manufacturing a team's success simply is incredibly risky business.

 

[sherb]

In other words you haven't earned this sucssess

You've been gifted it

Your words. Which, as has been the pattern, are hysterical.

Also, completely unrelated to what I was saying.

By the way, what is this "you" and "your" business. Direct those barbs to GWS supporters please.

I just happen to live in the area.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

When have the modern AFL ever gave any shits about anything else? It's all about money, money, money. Everything is about damage control with them. It's blatant.

But it's their job to think about money.

I don't see how it's a criticism.

I said who cares about money, yep. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting the AFL should ask for the worst deal possible, but not thinking about milking the most money for once wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

So they should have accepted an inferior broadcast rights deal rather than trying to maximise it?

Because who cares about money?

Seriously, how you can be so supportive of how money driven the AFL is.

It's part of their job. That's the short answer.

Before it was like this, I used to enjoy the game because it wasn't completely money dominated like overseas sports were. Now there's honestly no difference and I find myself far more interested in other sports where the integrity of the game isn't ruined for at least the next decade.

How has "the integrity of the game been ruined"?

If you don't think the media is hugely influential in what the AFL is today, you must be blind. Plain and simply put.

Sure, you've put it simply. It's also completely unsubstantiated.

The media are a factor in how the AFL engages the public but your suggestion that they are essentially tipping the scales on major decisions is nonsensical.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

AFL is becoming so scripted that it's approaching WWE levels.

The similarities between the AFL and WWE at a governance level are astonishing, and I've been saying it for years - even down to being 5 years behind the curve culturally.

 

[DERIBERATE]

In other words you haven't earned this sucssess

You've been gifted it

I can't actually think of any level that they would have earned a premiership. They haven't done things smarter, they have been given the first round of the draft to pick whoever they want. They haven't developed the talent. Their fans haven't paid for it. They've been fixtured to play fewer top 8 clubs than their finals opponents as a matter of procedure by the AFL. Most clubs don't have a home ground to play a prelim at unless they're an annointed club like GWS.

 

[Tedeski]

The funniest thing is the AFL bringing in all those so called equalisation measures like footy department spending caps, as if that was such an out of control problem. Meanwhile they give GWS almost every thing possible to guarantee on-field success.

Forget about other clubs spending more on their footy departments to counter that.

They still have to win it on the big day!
Different game is the Grand Final! You can't fool anyone on the big stage!
If we were good enough, we would have beaten GWS no matter what obstacles.
Simple!

 

[JD Tomahawk]

GWS flags will count for Jack until the first rounders level out with the rest of the comp.

 

[dave123]

I can't actually think of any level that they would have earned a premiership. They haven't done things smarter, they have been given the first round of the draft to pick whoever they want. They haven't developed the talent. Their fans haven't paid for it. They've been fixtured to play fewer top 8 clubs than their finals opponents as a matter of procedure by the AFL. Most clubs don't have a home ground to play a prelim at unless they're an annointed club like GWS.

This flag is so tainted if they win it

Dead set

Only absolute incompetence could possibly stuff it up (hello to Gold Coast management)

It's worse than Fifa rigging the World Cup venues

 

[dave123]

Your words. Which, as has been the pattern, are hysterical.

Also, completely unrelated to what I was saying.

By the way, what is this "you" and "your" business. Direct those barbs to GWS supporters please.

I just happen to live in the area.

Cola
Draft picks galore
Academies that no other club can touch

Now tell me none of those make a difference

 

[FootyJunkie]

If you're GWS... you're GWS 4 lyyyyyyyyfe!

 

[sherb]

Yep, you're right. Manufacturing success in a area where footy really isn't all that popular is going to work a treat.

When will the AFL come to realise that kids jump on and off bandwagons, and trying to establish a footy heartland on the back of manufacturing a team's success simply is incredibly risky business.

What makes you think they are trying to establish a "footy heartland"? They are trying to make 2 teams in a city of 5 million sustainable. I think that is perfectly attainable.

The AFL will never make Sydney like Melbourne when it comes to our game, but they don't have to. At least get your understanding of the situation realistic, please.

I've lived in Sydney since 83 and have an AFL background prior to that. I have had extensive involvement in the game here for 20 or so years.

What's the basis for your assessment of the situation out of curiosity?

 

[Sando22]

This is poop.
Does every idea/opinion PB has have to become a thread?

 

[dave123]

So? Again you had massive start up concessions and won a few flags from them and where a finals powerhouse for years off them.

You were a footy state as you say. So why the concessions?

At least we had almost absolutely nothing when we started (we had a room at rooty hill rsl)

Ill send a stone over so you can throw it at your glass house.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Edit. I didnt actually say you had cola. Get your facts straight.

GWS has had cola

For all the banging on about the Swans cola GWS will have it also

A fact often overlooked

Tainted is my view

 

[Colonial]

What's the basis for your assessment of the situation out of curiosity?

Fear. Easy targets.

 

[Colonial]

GWS has had cola

For all the banging on about the Swans cola GWS will have it also

A fact often overlooked

Tainted is my view

Yes it is tainted. But still a glass house.

 

[PP34]

But it's their job to think about money.

I don't see how it's a criticism.

So they should have accepted an inferior broadcast rights deal rather than trying to maximise it?

Because who cares about money?

It's part of their job. That's the short answer.

How has "the integrity of the game been ruined"?

Sure, you've put it simply. It's also completely unsubstantiated.

The media are a factor in how the AFL engages the public but your suggestion that they are essentially tipping the scales on major decisions is nonsensical.

Yep, they've turned into a greedy corporation, instead of just being the governing body of a league like they originally were. The AFL has far too much of an impact on the game, and money dictates almost all their decision making.

Where did I ever say they should have accepted an inferior broadcast deal? I've never been in favour of expansion, but if it had to happen so be it. But it's quite clear the AFL didn't want a team hanging around the bottom to mid-half of the ladder for ages, and wanted a team shooting straight up to the top. Because kids these days love a good bandwagon. It happens with every sport they become interested in. The Giants winning a flag or two will grab some attention up there in the short-term I'm sure.


Footy never used to be so money focused. Yes, teams like my own would throw cash at players and coaches, but at the end of the day it was to keep their fans happy. I didn't grow up in that era so never really looked at that closely or agreed with it, but it happened. What the AFL is doing is totally unprecedented and pretty much involves destroying the equality of the competition for the foreseeable future. There's no two ways about it. GWS are going to be up the top of the ladder for years to come barring some catastrophic plague or other crazy event. We're lucky Gold Coast has been ruined by poor leadership, injuries and their location, because otherwise it would be even worse.

The media have a huge say. You keep crapping on about broadcast deals which just proves my point. They have a huge role in this money dominated squeaky clean league that we have today.

They still have to win it on the big day!
Different game is the Grand Final! You can't fool anyone on the big stage!
If we were good enough, we would have beaten GWS no matter what obstacles.
Simple!

What happens this year is irrelevant. If they win this year, it's even more concerning for the rest of the league.

 

[Colonial]

Oh the Academy .....Where a bucket load of cash and resources is thrown at players for development

If the other clubs were allowed academies then they would produce that also

Again ...lets get this clear

Cola
Draft picks galore
Soft draw
Academy

And you reckon you've earned your wins .......really

Soft draw? What? Ummm no