GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[Giant YoYo]

Do you consume much media elsewhere?

Dwayne Russell had a talk back section regarding the semi final crowd, and have the text line's response was "just move them to Canberra". I read it in Facebook comments and tweets all the time. Somebody literally made a subreddit post yesterday titled "Should the Giants move to Canberra?".

It is no way contained to bigfooty. It's a widely held perception. And that perception is hurting the Giants.

There are codes that don't want the Giants in Western Sydney/Sydney and certainly don't wish the Giants well.

I'm under no illusion there are many that would like Sydney to go back to being a one club footy city (restricting footys major influence to the eastern part of the city), it's plainly obvious.

There are plenty that see Western Sydney as more or less the last frontier in Sydney to keep footy out from taking hold (compared to the east).

It's a shame a lot of this undermining from elsewhere has now spilled out into the mainstream footy discourse. It's quite frankly playing into the hands of those actors that want the Giants out but a lot of footy fans seem to be none the wiser.

A similar road has been traveled by other footy clubs in the northern states so it's not completely new (circumstances surrounding them and time may be, though. Definitely would've been less online forums /social media back then, though).

 

[sherb]

Yes, but absolutely nobody identifies as being from GWS. It is not a place, it is an area defined for statistical purposes.

Of course no-one identifies as being from GWS - they identify as being from one of the many places contained within the GWS area. For instance, I say I live in Penrith.
I've never seen anyone argue that it is a place - it is, as I said, a clearly defined area. One that is certainly known in Sydney and that the AFL decided that the Giants would be representing.
And for those who didn't (understandably) know what the Greater Western Sydney area comprised, a simple Google search brings up an extensive Wikipedia article as the first result (if you don't trust Wiki there are plenty of references in the article).
My post was to challenge the assertion that "Greater Western Sydney" is a made up place. It's not made up, it exists - in this debate, it's irrelevant why it exists. And it's not a place, it's not presented as such, rather it is a considerable number of places covering a sizeable amount of geography.
So I go back to what I said - Greater Western Sydney is a clearly defined area. And the GWS Giants is a whole lot easier to say than the Blacktown/Penrith/Parramatta/Liverpool/Campbelltown, (etc) Giants...............

 

[Walshawk]

Of course no-one identifies as being from GWS - they identify as being from one of the many places contained within the GWS area. For instance, I say I live in Penrith.
I've never seen anyone argue that it is a place - it is, as I said, a clearly defined area. One that is certainly known in Sydney and that the AFL decided that the Giants would be representing.
And for those who didn't (understandably) know what the Greater Western Sydney area comprised, a simple Google search brings up an extensive Wikipedia article as the first result (if you don't trust Wiki there are plenty of references in the article).
My post was to challenge the assertion that "Greater Western Sydney" is a made up place. It's not made up, it exists - in this debate, it's irrelevant why it exists. And it's not a place, it's not presented as such, rather it is a considerable number of places covering a sizeable amount of geography.
So I go back to what I said - Greater Western Sydney is a clearly defined area. And the GWS Giants is a whole lot easier to say than the Blacktown/Penrith/Parramatta/Liverpool/Campbelltown, (etc) Giants...............

Every time The ‘GWS’ is said in the media, that is a missed opportunity to say the words ‘Western Sydney’.

GWS is a rubbish name for a football club.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Thank you for highlighting my point. You've fallen for the rhetoric.

The majority of Giants fans and members are in Sydney.

Just 18.6% of Giants members are in Canberra. And only about a third of them are actually Giants fans. Which means of the 36,639 Giants members this year, only about 2,440 would be Canberra Giants fans.

Canberra has bigger crowds because we have more AFL fans, not Giants fans.

Aren’t these numbers based on your “survey” from your site? A site that has a specific agenda lobbying for a full time Canberra AFL team, and where participants opt to give their views, will have a skew towards your views?

Canberra officially does have about 7,000 members according to our club, but don’t think that includes people from Queanbeyan and the surrounding region?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Btw in relation to the GWS branding, the club has been branding itself as the GIANTS since at least 2018?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Aren’t these numbers based on your “survey” from your site? A site that has a specific agenda lobbying for a full time Canberra AFL team, and where participants opt to give their views, will have a skew towards your views?

They were, but as I've already said, they were mostly obtained by Facebook targeting. It was directed at people with an interest in Australian rules football within a 40km radius of Canberra. I tried to make it as neutral as I could.

Canberra officially does have about 7,000 members according to our club, but don’t think that includes people from Queanbeyan and the surrounding region?

This would be an interesting one. I'd like to see the data on it. The number was 6,830. I wonder if that's with a Canberra postcode, or those who bought the membership with Canberra attendance.

 

[RedV3x]

Every time The ‘GWS’ is said in the media, that is a missed opportunity to say the words ‘Western Sydney’.

And thus exclude the Canberra connection.

GWS is a rubbish name for a football club.

Like Hawthorn.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Btw in relation to the GWS branding, the club has been branding itself as the GIANTS since at least 2018?

Unfortunately, no one outside of Giants fans calls us the Giants.

Across all social/news media it's predominantly GWS.

Everyone I speak to outside of Giants fans refer to us as GWS and we're the only club in the competition that has their name reduced to an acronym (GWS). Don't believe me? Check the AFL website/app ladder.

A word needs to be dropped from GWS to lose the acronym.

Whether that be Greater or Western so that the name is either Western Sydney Giants or Greater Sydney Giants.

I prefer Greater Sydney Giants, it includes our current area and then some, all while losing the acronym.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Go the other way. Relocate the GIANTS to Canberra because at least it's resonated there. It's worked. Then bring in team 20 to offset the Tasmania bye as a second Sydney team playing out of the SCG.

Leave the actual west of Sydney for another 15-20 years down the track for team 21 and 22.

I don't think the AFL will move GWS to Canberra or anywhere else even if it costs them billions to keep them there, but no doubt in my mind that the bean counters would move them when they look at the cost of keeping them there.

 

[Canberra Pear]

To those shitting on the Giants' semi final crowd, it was just 767 fewer than Cronulla's semi final crowd last night.

The Giants are lagging against AFL crowds, but holding their own by Sydney standards.

 

[Cmarsh]

To those shitting on the Giants' semi final crowd, it was just 767 fewer than Cronulla's semi final crowd last night.

The Giants are lagging against AFL crowds, but holding their own by Sydney standards.

Against the smaller Sydney NRL clubs it is somewhat comparable, not the bigger ones.

 

[PhatBoy]

To those shitting on the Giants' semi final crowd, it was just 767 fewer than Cronulla's semi final crowd last night.

The Giants are lagging against AFL crowds, but holding their own by Sydney standards.

That’s not unexpected, though. Cronulla are arguably the least supported Sydney team playing a side from 3000km away. They wanted to play in Cronulla where the capacity is just 13,000 and ended up with nearly 20,000.

 

[RedV3x]

That’s not unexpected, though. Cronulla are arguably the least supported Sydney team

Seemingly Manly and Titan's membership are so low they don't appear on NRL website.

playing a side from 3000km away.

Where's the S.O.O. crowd ?

They wanted to play in Cronulla where the capacity is just 13,000 and ended up with nearly 20,000.

They gave away $10,000 worth of tickets.
The atmosphere and presentation would have been so much better at Cronulla.

 

[RedV3x]

To those shitting on the Giants' semi final crowd, it was just 767 fewer than Cronulla's semi final crowd last night.

The Giants are lagging against AFL crowds, but holding their own by Sydney standards.

A Swans Vs Roos final got only 19k at Homebush so Giants are doing OK
though I was a little disappointed that more neutrals didn't come on board
considering this was always going to be a powerful game.

 

[PhatBoy]

Seemingly Manly and Titan's membership are so low they don't appear on NRL website.



Where's the S.O.O. crowd ?



They gave away $10,000 worth of tickets.
The atmosphere and presentation would have been so much better at Cronulla.

Agree the atmosphere would have been better but when has that ever counted for anything: you’re talking to a Cats fan. If atmosphere meant anything Souths wouldn’t be playing at Homebush. What do you mean where’s the SOO crowd? NSW doesn’t support Cronulla mate.

More people go for Manly than the Sharks. Their home ground has a rugby league capacity of 18k and it’s been within a few hundred of that every game this season.


Taking supporter info from an overnight article about the comparison between the two Moore Park crowds and the nrl website membership numbers doesn’t change where the supportership lies in the landscape. The Sharks are at the bottom of the pile: they have a very loyal and dedicated (they had to be after waiting for 50 years to win a comp) fanbase but it’s a small one.

 

[RedV3x]

Agree the atmosphere would have been better

End of story.

What do you mean where’s the SOO crowd?

The Queenslanders who are very parochial.
Like, I support every non-Victorian team.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Yes, but absolutely nobody identifies as being from GWS. It is not a place, it is an area defined for statistical purposes.

Just like how no one identifies as being from “west coast”?

 

[PhatBoy]

End of story.



The Queenslanders who are very parochial.
Like, I support every non-Victorian team.

Qld fans are probably parochial enough to do that. NSW fans aren’t.

Me personally? I would prefer the cowboys but with my partner as a panthers fan I was going for the Sharks so I was torn either way, but regardless even as a Sydney sider I would rather watch on TV.

We don’t carry the SOO mentality into club footy the same way Queensland fans do I don’t think.

 

[PhatBoy]

Re. The GWS branding thing I don’t know why they don’t cut their losses and call them Wests

 

[The Educator]

Against the smaller Sydney NRL clubs it is somewhat comparable, not the bigger ones.

Which is probably where things are at - the Swans are clearly the biggest football club in Sydney, the Giants are comparably to the small NRL clubs (though with their support spread out a bit more).

The Storm, on the other hand, at best can probably see North on the horizon

 

[Bjo187]

That’s not unexpected, though. Cronulla are arguably the least supported Sydney team playing a side from 3000km away. They wanted to play in Cronulla where the capacity is just 13,000 and ended up with nearly 20,000.

Are you saying the giants 18k was expected? A team that's been in the comp 11 years compared to a team that's been in the comp in Sydney which we're always told is 'rugby league heartland' for over 60 years. Plus Thurstons bought a whole bunch of tickets to help get the crowd up, giving them away for free.

The shit the giants cop is a very poor, I mean you expect it from the Sydney media with their anti afl agenda, but when it comes from fellow footy fans, it's a disgrace. Get behind the club they're growing well off a small base and need to be respected for all the crap they put up with.

 

[PhatBoy]

Are you saying the giants 18k was expected? A team that's been in the comp 11 years compared to a team that's been in the comp in Sydney which we're always told is 'rugby league heartland' for over 60 years. Plus Thurstons bought a whole bunch of tickets to help get the crowd up, giving them away for free.

The shit the giants cop is a very poor, I mean you expect it from the Sydney media with their anti afl agenda, but when it comes from fellow footy fans, it's a disgrace. Get behind the club they're growing well off a small base and need to be respected for all the crap they put up with.

Who cares?

Rugby league has been around in its current form, more or less, for 116 years and the crowds have been, more or less, the same. Why the hell do you think a few extra decades will change that?

It is what it is. League fans don’t care. I follow both sports equally and couldn’t have a shit one way or the other. League gets more tv viewership, afl gets way bigger crowds. That second part is never going to change.

I like the Giants, I hope they do well and while I have huge respect for the swans if I had a choice I would always support the Giants.

 

[Bjo187]

Which is probably where things are at - the Swans are clearly the biggest football club in Sydney, the Giants are comparably to the small NRL clubs (though with their support spread out a bit more).

The Storm, on the other hand, at best can probably see North on the horizon

I have to laugh at how much positive media the storm get compared to the giants when they're:

• One team in a city of 7 million in that sport
• finished top again and couldn't sellout their qualification final, despite there being no afl on in the whole of Melbourne that weekend
• their ratings were very poor for that game too
• their membership is the same as the giants
• they've been around double the time of the giants
• their average crowds are only 6k higher than the giants
• They have only produced one Victorian player in their history, the giants have produced about 5 from western sydney

This off the back of the storm being the most successful club in the sport playing in a gf on average every 3 years and winning multiple premierships, the giants only playing in 1 with no flags.

It just shows the difference when you have news corp and sen constantly pumping you up and doing the opposite for the giants, that the perception doesn't match the reality when you look at the actual numbers.

Also Sydney Olympic park will have a brand new train line from the cbd going directly to it and a tram line direct from Parramatta going directly to it in the next few years, which will make the precinct very appealing and help with crowds.

 

[Walshawk]

Just like how no one identifies as being from “west coast”?

They could have called the first WA team anything and they would be just as big. No visibility problems for footy over there. Apples and oranges.

And if there wasn’t already a Perth footy club, that is what they would have been called.

 

[PhatBoy]

I have to laugh at how much positive media the storm get compared to the giants when they're:

• One team in a city of 7 million in that sport
• finished top again and couldn't sellout their qualification final, despite there being no afl on in the whole of Melbourne that weekend
• their ratings were very poor for that game too
• their membership is the same as the giants
• they've been around double the time of the giants
• their average crowds are only 6k higher than the giants
• They have only produced one Victorian player in their history, the giants have produced about 5 from western sydney

This off the back of the storm being the most successful club in the sport playing in a gf on average every 3 years and winning multiple premierships, the giants only playing in 1 he with no flags.

It just shows the difference when you have news corp and sen constantly pumping you up and doing the opposite for the giants, that the perception doesn't match the reality when you look at the actual numbers.

Also Sydney Olympic park will have a brand new train line from the cbd going directly to it and a tram line direct from Parramatta going directly to it in the next few years, which will make the precinct very appealing and help with crowds.

You kind of answered your own question.

The storm don’t have anything local to draw on. There is, not a big one, but an existent and in some areas (the Riverina mainly and Canberra if we are counting it as NSW) a rich history of Australian Rules football in NSW. Plus the swans have been embedded there for twice as long as the Storm.

There is no history of league in Victoria. That they build the sides they do minus one of the pathways that every other club has, is an amazing effort.