Rules Harry McKay concussion loophole/issue

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Footage is damning. Didn’t even see it before but assuming that’s a 100k fine for the blues? Disgraceful.

He was clearly absolutely out of it and was wobbly on his feet. Makes a real joke of their stance if the AFL sign off on it but they will.

 

[DocSholl]

I don't think that's worth anything in regards to the conversation.
Not having a crack at you, but the result of the test is secondary to the issue.

Today's incident was a shitshow of coincidence that has highlighted a larger issue. As far as I know, the club doctors are the only ones who can assess the footage and decide on a concussion test. What happens when your doctors are down in the rooms and occupied? How much can the other club staff do?

Harry absolutely should have come off for a test straight away. I'm not sure that any other club would pull a player off the ground like that, without the advice of club doctors. The AFL simply HAS to have independent docs on hand for concussion and any other potential liability issues.

Having said that l, if the AFL looks into this and finds we were negligent, then we should cop whatever comes from it.

I've always found it crazy that the AFL tries to do so much with regards to head knocks, but doesn't have an independent doctor for head assessments, even if just to prevent this situation where the club doctor is preoccupied. Clubs have shown time and again they can't be trusted with this sort of stuff (not saying Carlton intentionally tried to circumvent the rule, but at the same time weren't in any hurry to get him off).

 

[420]

Beggars belief now he passed the hia, I am no doctor but he looked in a very bad way. Would the delay in doing the test affect the results?

 

[samFFC]

Fwiw didn't have a concussion in the end.

He was briefly unconscious mate.

I don't think that's worth anything in regards to the conversation.
Not having a crack at you, but the result of the test is secondary to the issue.

Today's incident was a shitshow of coincidence that has highlighted a larger issue. As far as I know, the club doctors are the only ones who can assess the footage and decide on a concussion test. What happens when your doctors are down in the rooms and occupied? How much can the other club staff do?

Harry absolutely should have come off for a test straight away. I'm not sure that any other club would pull a player off the ground like that, without the advice of club doctors. The AFL simply HAS to have independent docs on hand for concussion and any other potential liability issues.

Having said that l, if the AFL looks into this and finds we were negligent, then we should cop whatever comes from it.

100%
and appreciate the unbiased view. Though having said that if he gets a second knock there you lose him for 2, maybe more weeks, maybe he has residual symptoms until the finals. So actually following the rules may help the club in the short (and definitely financially long term).

 

[samFFC]

Not to mention that if the AFL doesn’t crack down then surely :
-Adelaide is re-challenging Rankine’s suspension - why does he get 4 if we don’t give a s—t about the impact of a head injury?
-Heeney and Reid should both re-challenge to allow them to be eligible for Brownlow and Rising Star.

 

[samFFC]

Beggars belief now he passed the hia, I am no doctor but he looked in a very bad way. Would the delay in doing the test affect the results?

I agree it is fishy.

No test is perfect at diagnosing a positive case, or ruling out a negative case.

And regardless, he had immediate serious signs. A second head knock there could be catastrophic.

 

[Testekill]

An independent doctor should be allowed to demand that a player be dragged following a collision like that, McKay had jelly legs and was out of it during that stoppage in the forward 50.

 

[Mofra]

Don't teams have more than one doctor at games? I thought most (if not all) have two

 

[Duckimus Prime]

I don't think that's worth anything in regards to the conversation.
Not having a crack at you, but the result of the test is secondary to the issue.

Today's incident was a shitshow of coincidence that has highlighted a larger issue. As far as I know, the club doctors are the only ones who can assess the footage and decide on a concussion test. What happens when your doctors are down in the rooms and occupied? How much can the other club staff do?

What happens? You cop a $100k fine from the AFL.

I mean thats what happened when Aliir was sent back out while the Port Adelaide doctor was in the rooms treating Lachie Jones.

I mean, there's no special treatment for a big Melbourne club right?

Garry Lyon has pointed it out, if he was complaining about hamstring awareness, he would've been off then and there. There should be no excuses "the head Doctor was down treating another player".

Same should've applied on Friday night with Jordan Dawson after he ran into Caddy.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

What happens? You cop a $100k fine from the AFL.

I mean thats what happened when Aliir was sent back out while the Port Adelaide doctor was in the rooms treating Lachie Jones.

I mean, there's no special treatment for a big Melbourne club right?

Garry Lyon has pointed it out. If he was complaining about hamstring awareness, he would've been off then and there. There should be no excuses "the head Doctor was down treating another player".

Same should've applied on Friday night with Jordan Dawson after he ran into Caddy.

If we do, we do. It won't be undeserving. Was a terrible look.
I'm not really referring to fines though, was more a question about procedure. Sure, the coaches can always pull a player at any time, and that was probably the right call to make, but not many would.
Is it purely up to the club docs to assess and make the call? I'm sure the docs always try to be as professional as possible with their decisions (it's their career and reputation at stake), but there is also a clear conflict there as well.

Easiest solution is to take a serious matter like that out of the clubs' hands and have an independent assessor.

As far as this incident is concerned, the club could have and should have done more. It should be investigated. I don't think the fact that he passed the eventual HIA has any bearing on whether it was the right call. If we get penalised for those mistakes, then so be it. Won't get an argument here.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Jim Prideaux]

FWIW apparently the AFL has a spotter in the arc at each game that looks for concussions, so I would be surprised if they said nothing.

 

[Chief]

Harry McKay looked for all money like he was out COLD on the deck after an inadvertent headclash in a marking contest.

But the Carlton doctor was in the rooms treating a different player so apparently didn't see the footage and didn't pull him from the ground for a concussion assessment.

Surely this loophole isn't that simple? "Oh our Doctor was busy so we left our concussed player on the field for 7 minutes"?!

Expect we'll be hearing more about this one...



View attachment 2054754

That's his own hand there. He's not out cold.

 

[Teal Leviathan]

The AFL's strategy of foisting all responsibility for dealing with concussion/HIA issues off on the clubs with the excuse that club doctors know their players best works well enough when it's just Port Adelaide in the gun, but with half the clubs in the competition now having question marks over their management of head impacts these past 12 months, it's pretty clear that the AFL needs to step in and take responsibility for the process.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Haven't really seen the other incidents that have been requested for a please explain, but I imagine Carlton's response will be...
Blues: Our doctor(s) were tied up down in the rooms with another injured player.
AFL: So why didn't somebody else make the call to remove him from the ground?
Blues: It's AFL/club policy that only doctors can review footage to see if a player needs to be taken off the field for a HIA (I don't know if that's actually the case, just speculating) and it's beyond the scope of the other staff that were present.
AFL: You're absolutely right, but we're going to give you a fine anyway, because it makes us look bad if we don't and everyone is coming to the realisation that we should appoint independent medicos for each game that can look for and control these things much faster and with no chance of a conflict of interest.

Not condoning any of the above. It's a terrible situation that absolutely should have been actioned by somebody, regardless of whether any of the above might be close to the mark of actual protocols. I'm still expecting, and don't disagree with, a fine.

 

[_Mike_]

Here's the incident including the knock. Doesnt particularly look that bad in comparison, McKay bumped into the back of Ford's head with a head clash. More likely the angle into McKay's jaw that saw him dazed??

McKay forced off the ground | Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter. | By AFLFacebook

Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter.

www.facebook.com

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Here's the incident including the knock. Doesnt particularly look that bad in comparison, McKay bumped into the back of Ford's head with a head clash. More likely the angle into McKay's jaw that saw him dazed??

McKay forced off the ground | Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter. | By AFLFacebook

Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter.

www.facebook.com

After the incident, he seemed to have a bit of blood at the base of his skull on one side just below the ear. I'd say that's where most of the impact was.

 

[Kappa]

Here's the incident including the knock. Doesnt particularly look that bad in comparison, McKay bumped into the back of Ford's head with a head clash. More likely the angle into McKay's jaw that saw him dazed??

McKay forced off the ground | Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter. | By AFLFacebook

Harry McKay came from the ground following this contest in the third quarter.

www.facebook.com

Whats the difference between "dazed" and a minor concussion?

The wobbly legs, dazed look and lack of balance are all symptoms he was concussed. CLEARLY a player in that situation MUST be taken off the field for treatment/assessment, to argue otherwise is foolish.

 

[Chief]

Whats the difference between "dazed" and a minor concussion?

The wobbly legs, dazed look and lack of balance are all symptoms he was concussed. CLEARLY a player in that situation MUST be taken off the field for treatment/assessment, to argue otherwise is foolish.

He was taken off.

The issue seems to be which individual was responsible for deciding he needed to be taken off, and they don't seem to have been available.

 

[Kappa]

He was taken off.

The issue seems to be which individual was responsible for deciding he needed to be taken off, and they don't seem to have been available.

Must be taken off immediately*

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Must be taken off immediately*

I think we all get that this is what SHOULD'VE happened. The question marks are on what the AFL's protocols are (I'm assuming the AFL set these guidelines and don't leave it up to each club, as they'd want it clear and consistent).
Does the vision need to be reviewed by a club doc? Are they the only one who can make the call? Is there a grey area, or confusion or concern about someone less qualified making that call? Is there a chain of command of the club docs are otherwise occupied?

 

[perplexed]

Being overlooked due to the McKay concussion / non concussion is Carlton's treatment of TDK. Their doctors jabbed him up and kept him on the ground despite Tom having a fractured foot and later a collapsed lung. Have they been sent a please explain for this too?

 

[bradfisher14]

Being overlooked due to the McKay concussion / non concussion is Carlton's treatment of TDK. Their doctors jabbed him up and kept him on the ground despite Tom having a fractured foot and later a collapsed lung. Have they been sent a please explain for this too?

Has North Melbourne been sent a please explain for their sniping tactics?

 

[perplexed]

Has North Melbourne been sent a please explain for their sniping tactics?

You've lost me. Who did what?

 

[ferball]

You've lost me. Who did what?

Apparently competing is illegal now.

Tell you what if TDK had the attitude some of these Carlton posters have he wouldn't have come on and helped his side win the game in the third quarter.