Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?

[Mootsy]

My hat goes off to lance, I don’t know how he does it..
but somehow, in someway, he scores...

 

[Brutalitops]

The debate is always between Carey, Ablett SNR and Matthews. So if you think Franklin is better than Carey as an overall player then you think he is in that group as the best ever to play the game.

Where do you rate Hayden Bunton Sr? What number does he come on your list?

 

[TexanKnights]

Seen both, Franklin better imo, but Senior better to watch than either for mine.

 

[A Swallow]

Where do you rate Hayden Bunton Sr? What number does he come on your list?

He’s talked about in high regard as well, but to be fair was well before my time. His achievements are ridiculous though.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Where do you rate Hayden Bunton Sr? What number does he come on your list?

Ask one of the millennials. They'll know.

 

[Brutalitops]

He’s talked about in high regard as well, but to be fair was well before my time. His achievements are ridiculous though.

High regard is own playing it. Many historians of the game say he's the GOAT. Theyd be in a fair position to judge as opposed to to contemporary commentary which only focuses on the those who have played since the 80s.

And as you quite rightly pointed out, he was well before your time. This is why GOAT discussions are pointless. Ive also heard the names Coleman and Jesaulenko bandied around, but only ever from those who saw them play.

Spouting that The Duck is the GOAT as fact is farcical and if thats your argument then its a poor one indeed.

 

[Brutalitops]

Ask one of the millennials. They'll know.

Sorry mate. Didnt realise you saw him play so you'll be in a no doubt better position to tell me why Carey is better than Bunton Snr. You have the floor, lets hear it then

 

[Snake_Baker]

Carey shits all over Bunton Snr, Dick Reynolds AND Roy Cazaly!

 

[Brutalitops]

Carey shits all over Bunton Snr, Dick Reynolds AND Roy Cazaly!

And Bobby Rose to boot!

 

[A Swallow]

High regard is own playing it. Many historians of the game say he's the GOAT. Theyd be in a fair position to judge as opposed to to contemporary commentary which only focuses on the those who have played since the 80s.

And as you quite rightly pointed out, he was well before your time. This is why GOAT discussions are pointless. Ive also heard the names Coleman and Jesaulenko bandied around, but only ever from those who saw them play.

Spouting that The Duck is the GOAT as fact is farcical and if thats your argument then its a poor one indeed.

Read the last few pages of this thread, I’ve explained my position in detail. The fact that many ex greats (as players and/or coaches) label Carey as the best ever does hold some weight though surely? It’s not just me saying it.
Buddy will be remembered as the best forward of his era, which is a huge achievement, but I very much doubt he will ever be talked about with the likes of Carey, Matthews etc. as the very top echelon. GAJ has him covered as best player of the same era for starters.
For me the biggest factor for Carey over Buddy is that Buddy isn’t a leader. He’s never been skipper and doesn’t have an ounce of command presence. You can add in marking ability, ability on both sides of the body etc. as other reasons for Carey over Buddy, but leadership and presence will always be the biggest thing for me personally. That’s a gap Buddy can’t bridge IMO.

 

[Brutalitops]

Read the last few pages of this thread, I’ve explained my position in detail. The fact that many ex greats (as players and/or coaches) label Carey as the best ever does hold some weight though surely? It’s not just me saying it.
Buddy will be remembered as the best forward of his era, which is a huge achievement, but I very much doubt he will ever be talked about with the likes of Carey, Matthews etc. as the very top echelon. GAJ has him covered as best player of the same era for starters.
For me the biggest factor for Carey over Buddy is that Buddy isn’t a leader. He’s never been skipper and doesn’t have an ounce of command presence. You can add in marking ability, ability on both sides of the body etc. as other reasons for Carey over Buddy, but leadership and presence will always be the biggest thing for me personally. That’s a gap Buddy can’t bridge IMO.

I dont think any one player can be the GOAT. Its too intangible with too many important components of a phrase like "greatest of all time"" immeasurable.

And i think youre right about the leadership qualities giving Carey the edge to be a better player over all. But thats not what the thread is asking. The thread is asking whether Franklin is a better key forward than Carey. Leadership traits shouldnt enter that discussion. If it did then Nick Reiwoldt could give Franklin a shake at who's the better player as he is a far and away better captain then Franklin could ever hope to be.

Doesnt mean hes a better in the forward line.

 

[crocsta]

I rate Franklin ahead of Carey. Given the era Franklin played, his performances over a long period have been amazing. Very unique player.

Carey is a bit overrated. He gets credit for being arrogant as a player, like that is a major contribution.

So if Gary Snr did more strutting around and show-pony antics during the game he would have been even better as a player. I take output over persona.

You don’t see Gary Ablett Snr pushing his own greatness every week on TV



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[A Swallow]

I rate Franklin ahead of Carey. Given the era Franklin played, his performances over a long period have been amazing. Very unique player.

Carey is a bit overrated. He gets credit for being arrogant as a player, like that is a major contribution.

So if Gary Snr did more strutting around and show-pony antics during the game he would have been even better as a player. I take output over persona.

You don’t see Gary Ablett Snr pushing his own greatness every week on TV



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sure hope you say the same about Patrick “I Am Patrick Dangerfield” Dangerfield.

 

[crocsta]

I sure hope you say the same about Patrick “I Am Patrick Dangerfield” Dangerfield.

Absolutely. I don’t view Danger necessarily a better player than Martin just because he’s a more extroverted character


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[A Swallow]

Absolutely. I don’t view Danger necessarily a better player than Martin just because he’s a much more arrogant character


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EFA

 

[Thrawn]

I think a lot of people here forget how good Carey actually was. Franklin is fresh in everyone's minds, so it's a lot easier to make judgement calls from that. For me I think the difference comes down to the influence Carey had as a leader and his physicality and marking prowess. Those are a level above Franklin. Also, whoever said number of AA jumpers as a reason must be having a laugh. Is Alex Rance a better defender than Langford was because he has more AA jumpers? The selection panel can't get the team right a lot of the time.

 

[PiesUserName]

I think Carey was clearly better and also made his team better.
Hawthorn became a better team after Franklin left and went on to win more flags.
Sydney won a flag the year before Franklin arrived and never won another once he arrived.
He doesn't give a team as much upside as you would expect.

 

[roosmad]

Funny stuff look at all the Richmond and west coast fans claiming buddy is better than Carey, WOW he really did burn you guys in the 90’s......

Your pain is clear......hahaha

 

[Snake_Baker]

I think Carey was clearly better and also made his team better.
Hawthorn became a better team after Franklin left and went on to win more flags.
Sydney won a flag the year before Franklin arrived and never won another once he arrived.
He doesn't give a team as much upside as you would expect.

That is an EXCELLENT observation.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Ablett Sr GOAT and greatest key forward without a shadow of a doubt. I’d take Carey over Franklin due to his greater marking ability and ability to break packs and create more chances for his fellow forwards.

 

[Monkey King]

You forget though that this current era forwards don't win those sort of awards, or generally don't. I mean in the 80's and even early 90's you could have a forward winning the Brownlow, that is almost unthinkable in 2018.

Err ... Lockett won just 3 BnF’s. Ablett Snr won one.

I think you’ve got a lot of gaps in your knowledge that you fill with whatever fluff supports your belief.

 

[A Swallow]

Err ... Lockett won just 3 BnF’s. Ablett Snr won one.

I think you’ve got a lot of gaps in your knowledge that you fill with whatever fluff supports your belief.

He’s openly admitted he never watched Carey, yet continues to comment on the King and many other players/standards that were clearly before his time.

 

[RUNVS]

Err ... Lockett won just 3 BnF’s. Ablett Snr won one.

I think you’ve got a lot of gaps in your knowledge that you fill with whatever fluff supports your belief.

Lockett also won the Brownlow.

 

[Cursed Cat]

No contest. Franklin will have a longer career as he doesn’t get the physical punishment that Carey endured but his influence on games is nowhere near as pronounced. I can’t think of an opposing player before or since that scared me like King Carey did in his pomp. The only others that came close were Lockett and Gary senior. As freakish as Buddy can be he has too many flaws to be considered an equal of those three.

Good post, agree completely.

 

[juss]

Franklin is probably one of the best few physically and athletically gifted big man I have seen, with huge amounts of X factor. If he was a dominant contested mark, hed probably be the best ever.

As a KPF his aerial/marking weakness stops him from being better than Carey, ignoring whatever other factors you might have one better than the other, marking ability is the definer for me, for a key forward.