Has Mackenzie gone past Glass?

[Ian Dargie]

I've been having a discussion with another Eagles fan and would be interested in the consensus on this board.

Based on performances rather than potential, has Mackenzie surpassed Glass as our best key defender? Who was better and more important in 2012?

 

[Dark Sharks]

Definitely not overall.

On a tall.. Probably
I'd rather Mckenzie on hawkins, Franklin, Riewoldt, Hurley or Petrie then darren at the moment.

 

[Ochre]

As a key defender? Yes

 

[Ian Dargie]

As a key defender? Yes

I don't understand the qualification here.

Glass and Mackenzie are both key defenders. By restating that, are you saying Glass is better in some broader capacity?

 

[Masto]

Mackenzie gets the #1 key forward, its pretty simple to understand.

 

[Ochre]

I don't understand the qualification here.

Glass and Mackenzie are both key defenders. By restating that, are you saying Glass is better in some broader capacity?

I'd argue Glass isn't a pure key defender anymore. He's played on medium and small forwards in the past year or two and rebounds a lot more. He's better than Mackenzie at both at those imo, but in terms of playing on a Franklin or a Pavlich type I'd say Eric's better.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I'd argue Glass isn't a pure key defender anymore. He's played on medium and small forwards in the past year or two and rebounds a lot more. He's better than Mackenzie at both at those imo, but in terms of playing on a Franklin or a Pavlich type I'd say Eric's better.

Glass is still a key defender.

The fact that he is versatile enough to play on different kinds of forwards and also offers rebound simply adds to his value. It doesn't mean he ceases to be a key defender.

You seem to be saying that when it comes to negating a key forward you prefer Mackenzie but Glass has more strings to his bow. Correct?

 

[Ochre]

You seem to be saying that when it comes to negating a key forward you prefer Mackenzie but Glass has more strings to his bow. Correct?

Exactly.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Mackenzie gets the #1 key forward, its pretty simple to understand.

Firstly, that's not what he was saying. So you just sound like a jackass, chiming in without a clue. As usual.

Secondly, it's not even true. Mackenzie is likely to take the CHF while Glass still takes whoever plays deep. It just so happens that most of the best key forwards these days line up further from goal because they have that mobility and athleticism, meaning Mackenzie takes them.

If the best key forward plays deep, I'd expect Glass to take them. So it's not about Mackenzie taking the best forward and Glass getting an easy ride. It's about the way we want to organise our defence, with Glass on the last line and Mackenzie further afield.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Exactly.

So doesn't that mean that Glass is better because he's more than just a stopper?

He actually organises our back six and holds it together.

We might prefer Mackenzie on Cloke or Franklin but we also don't want him kicking the ball. Kind of a black mark, isn't it?

 

[Ochre]

Secondly, it's not even true. Mackenzie is likely to take the CHF while Glass still takes whoever plays deep. It just so happens that most of the best key forwards these days line up further from goal because they have that mobility and athleticism, meaning Mackenzie takes them.

If the best key forward plays deep, I'd expect Glass to take them. So it's not about Mackenzie taking the best forward and Glass getting an easy ride. It's about the way we want to organise our defence, with Glass on the last line and Mackenzie further afield.

Nah I disagree, IIRC Mackenzie took both Petrie and Mitch Clark despite them playing mainly FF.

So doesn't that mean that Glass is better because he's more than just a stopper?

He actually organises our back six and holds it together.

We might prefer Mackenzie on Cloke or Franklin but we also don't want him kicking the ball. Kind of a black mark, isn't it?

Glass probably adds more to the team yes, but to me a key defender is the player who plays on the oppositions tall forwards, and I'd take Mackenzie over Glass purely at that.

 

[TassieEagle]

I would say nope but its close.

Emac to play on the #1 tall, but Glass is a better deep defender and his organisation of the back 6 and superior disposal are crucial. Obviously both are crucial to our line up though.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Glass probably adds more to the team yes, but to me a key defender is the player who plays on the oppositions tall forwards, and I'd take Mackenzie over Glass purely at that.

Glass brings more to the team but you'd take Mackenzie instead?

Bit of a head-scratcher.

Is Glass adds more to the team, then surely he's a more valuable player.

 

[Ochre]

Glass brings more to the team but you'd take Mackenzie instead?

Bit of a head-scratcher.

Is Glass brings more to the team, then surely he's a more valuable player.

It's like saying Cox adds more to the team than Mackenzie, but if I had to pick someone to play on the oppositions best forward I'd choose Mackenzie.

Glass is the more valuable player, but if we're playing Collingwood I'd want Mackenzie on Cloke whether Cloke's at FF or CHF.

 

[Ian Dargie]

It's like saying Cox adds more to the team than Mackenzie, but if I had to pick someone to play on the oppositions best forward I'd choose Mackenzie.

Seriously?

Cox is a ruckman. Glass and Mackenzie are both key defenders.

Let's leave this silliness aside.

Glass is the more valuable player, but if we're playing Collingwood I'd want Mackenzie on Cloke whether Cloke's at FF or CHF.

OK, then.

 

[Ochre]

I don't think Glass is a pure key defender any more though, that's my point. He also plays as a medium defender, small defender, loose man and he's better than Mackenzie at these, which overall makes him the better player. However purely as a key defender, Eric is better.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

 

[Ian Dargie]

I don't think Glass is a pure key defender any more though, that's my point. He also plays as a medium defender, small defender, loose man and he's better than Mackenzie at these, which overall makes him the better player. However purely as a key defender, Eric is better.

Glass is still a key defender. I don't know what this word "pure" actually means. Doesn't it just mean that Glass isn't as limited? Because that would be a good thing, right? Surely, if Glass has more strings to his bow, that counts in his favour and not against him. Agreed?

Glass is versatile enough to play on different opponents and offers more in terms of rebound and organisation and is obviously better with ball in hand. But that doesn't mean he is no longer a key defender. If anything, it means he is a more complete player than Mackenzie, which, in my universe, makes him better, more valuable and more important.

 

[jaxxon]

If the grand final was tomorrow, I'd choose Glass to take their best forward. He is still one of the best KPDs in the league.

 

[Masto]

Firstly, that's not what he was saying. So you just sound like a jackass, chiming in without a clue. As usual.

Secondly, it's not even true. Mackenzie is likely to take the CHF while Glass still takes whoever plays deep. It just so happens that most of the best key forwards these days line up further from goal because they have that mobility and athleticism, meaning Mackenzie takes them.

If the best key forward plays deep, I'd expect Glass to take them. So it's not about Mackenzie taking the best forward and Glass getting an easy ride. It's about the way we want to organise our defence, with Glass on the last line and Mackenzie further afield.

Mackenzie gets the #1 key forward, its pretty simple to understand - unless you're Ian Dargie.

 

[beatlesmith]

In my mind it comes down to 3 questions.

Firstly, who is better at their job?
For this I would say Glass because as far as "help defenders" go, he is probably the best in the league, but the difference is marginal and it would not surprise me if EMac passed an ageing Glass in this respect in 2013.

Secondly, whose job is more important?
I think Mackenzie's job (nullifying the opposition's best forward) is more important to our defence, while Glass's (intercepting opposition passes, facilitating counter-attacks, among other things) is more of a luxury, especially considering that we have very good intercept and rebound players in Waters and Hurn.

Thirdly, who is more replaceable?
In terms of our squad, definitely Mackenzie. Brown is a very competent shut down defender who could do what EMac does better than anyone on our list could do what Glass does. Simply put a key position trio of Glass-Brown-Schofield would usually do better than a trio of Emac-Brown-Schofield in my opinion.

I guess it depends on how you define better or more important.

 

[TOA.]

I personally think Glass is still the better KPD but the club has put more and more responsibility in Emac because they know Glass' time is coming to an end.

If it came down to a GF against the Hawks, if Buddy was playing deep, give me Glass every day of the week, and thats not an indictment on Emac.

 

[larrikin]

Glass, comfortably.

Very rarely loses a one on one contest, and often ends up marking it.

He's clearly better on the link up than Emac too, hence the change in roles.

I like Emac, but we are talking about the reigning AA Captain here.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I don't understand the qualification here.

Glass and Mackenzie are both key defenders. By restating that, are you saying Glass is better in some broader capacity?

Typical Gunnar. Bait people with open ended questions and then bring them down.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

As a pure lock down KPD Mackenzie is now better than Glass.

I love Glass's zoning work and improved rebound. The fact he works so hard to help Eric out as well probably makes Mackenzie look a little better than he currently is.