Has Nic Naitanui Underachieved?

[Carbine Chaos]

To add a different perspective to this discussion, was Naitanui ever considered a sure thing to make it when he was drafted?

He was talented, but raw, and had to be moulded into the dominant ruckman he became. Rich was seen as the sure bet, and he's really justified that the last few seasons especially with Brisbane. If you'd offered Naitanui his current CV at the start of his career, I daresay 95% of supporters would have taken it.

Short answer - no, he hasn't underachieved.

 

[THE A5]

Hope when Nic know that his times up, he winds the clock back and launches into a few packs and into the shoulders of some opposition kents

 

[KERRPOW]

To add a different perspective to this discussion, was Naitanui ever considered a sure thing to make it when he was drafted?

He was talented, but raw, and had to be moulded into the dominant ruckman he became. Rich was seen as the sure bet, and he's really justified that the last few seasons especially with Brisbane. If you'd offered Naitanui his current CV at the start of his career, I daresay 95% of supporters would have taken it.

Short answer - no, he hasn't underachieved.

Hmmmm, you dont grab a speculative pick at 2?

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

To add a different perspective to this discussion, was Naitanui ever considered a sure thing to make it when he was drafted?

He was talented, but raw, and had to be moulded into the dominant ruckman he became. Rich was seen as the sure bet, and he's really justified that the last few seasons especially with Brisbane. If you'd offered Naitanui his current CV at the start of his career, I daresay 95% of supporters would have taken it.

Short answer - no, he hasn't underachieved.

It really depends how you define underachieved.

Measured against the AFL average nicnat has obviously had an excellent career way above par Most players don't play for a decade or make AA or win a B&F.

Measured against what you'd expect from a top 5 pick I agree he hasn't underachieved, I'd say he's about on par. Plenty of top 5 picks are total washouts or end up good ordinary players (think Chris Masten, Jack Watts) A few become absolute superstars of the competition ie one of the very best players in the competition for a very long time and clear hall of fame material (Nick Reiwoldt, Judd, Buddy, Martin, Kennedy) in between those two extremes are top 5 picks like nicnat who have good careers, are AA at their best but for whatever reason don't have the sort of sustained, consistent brilliance and output that characterise the absolute gems.

So in the sense that he's pretty much what you'd expect as a reasonable return from a top 5 pick, no he hasn't underachieved.

What is frustrating about Nicnat, and probably the way you can say he has underachieved is he has shown from quite early in his career he had the ability to be a Judd/Buddy/Martin calibre once in a generation, position defining player. At his best I don't think I've ever seen a ruckman with such an obvious physical advantage over his opponents in the centre square and such an impressive connection with his midfielders- he could out jump anyone, follow up with lightning second efforts to hammer the ball out of packs at ground level, and you need a new statistic to describe how decisive and valuable his taps were- 'hitout to advantage' doesn't properly reflect the value you get from a perfectly placed tap onto the chest of a midfielder sprinting towards goal which they dont have to break stride for, before the defence has had time to set up. He has certainly been paid like he's going to be that superstar hall of fame calibre player and west coast pretty much designed the rest of their list around him being that player.

The problem is for reasons I've already posted about he's never really been able to add the rest of the game to that fundamentally brilliant core ability, or get the body shape right to do it for 250 games. So he's never had the sustained stretch of brilliance or (perhaps with the exception of the 2015 QF where he monstered Hawthorn) the extraordinary performances in finals that the genuine superstars have on their CVs.

 

[Farang83150]

I wonder if this thread would have been made had he not been injured and played in the 2018 grand final winning team. I'd say unlucky more than underachieved.

Could well be THE most positive comment I've read from you!

 

[Farang83150]

Hope when Nic know that his times up, he winds the clock back and launches into a few packs and into the shoulders of some opposition kents

Last game of NN carrier against melb.... absolutely towels gawn and grundy, trade mark tap to himself, runs onto it and few long strides and goals...bit of push and shove after his goal celebration.....Oliver pulls Natas dreadlocks....Oliver cops full Beast mode...eagles win by a goal infront of home crowd!

 

[THE A5]

Last game of NN carrier against melb.... absolutely towels gawn and grundy, trade mark tap to himself, runs onto it and few long strides and goals...bit of push and shove after his goal celebration.....Oliver pulls Natas dreadlocks....Oliver cops full Beast mode...eagles win by a goal infront of home crowd!

Nic nat takes a speccie and kicks after the siren

 

[Farang83150]

Nic nat takes a speccie and kicks after the siren

Randy Marsh

 

[CursoryMercenary]

I don't think he's underachieved at all. I think he's definitely in the mix for top Ruckman of last decade. Completely different type Ruckman to Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

43

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

but was better than Cox at other things. I think it's a shame he's barely played 200 games and that he's missed a lot of football due to injuries and namely the 2018 Premiership.

 

[Mop]

It really depends how you define underachieved.

Measured against the AFL average nicnat has obviously had an excellent career way above par Most players don't play for a decade or make AA or win a B&F.

Measured against what you'd expect from a top 5 pick I agree he hasn't underachieved, I'd say he's about on par. Plenty of top 5 picks are total washouts or end up good ordinary players (think Chris Masten, Jack Watts) A few become absolute superstars of the competition ie one of the very best players in the competition for a very long time and clear hall of fame material (Nick Reiwoldt, Judd, Buddy, Martin, Kennedy) in between those two extremes are top 5 picks like nicnat who have good careers, are AA at their best but for whatever reason don't have the sort of sustained, consistent brilliance and output that characterise the absolute gems.

So in the sense that he's pretty much what you'd expect as a reasonable return from a top 5 pick, no he hasn't underachieved.

I think you've articulated what maybe I didn't so well.

As a pick 2, NN has been far more than adequate and achieved fine.
I was talking solely about his potential vs actual output.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I don't think he's underachieved at all. I think he's definitely in the mix for top Ruckman of last decade. Completely different type Ruckman to Dean Cox but was better than Cox at other things. I think it's a shame he's barely played 200 games and that he's missed a lot of football due to injuries and namely the 2018 Premiership.

I think you've articulated what maybe I didn't so well.

As a pick 2, NN has been far more than adequate and achieved fine.
I was talking solely about his potential vs actual output.

I'll put it this way, Dean Cox complimented an already elite midfield, I wouldn't say he necessarily elevated them (at least not to any substantial amount).
Naitanui has elevated a lot of players to a higher level I don't think they would've reached had they had any other ruckman in the league (even Gawn).
A perfect example of this is the trajectory of Luke Shuey (noting the current similar thread on him on this board atm). Taking nothing away from Shuey's fantastic career he wouldn't have been nearly as devastating at clearances (particularly centre clearances) had he not have Naitanui tapping to him.
Don't believe me have a watch of this lengthy highlight I made of Naitanui's most dominant (at least in terms of total HOs) year in 2015:

The amount of perfect taps Naitanui gave our mids over their careers (especially Shuey) is just astonishing and almost certainly was a decisive factor to us making the grand final in 2015. Of course Shuey isn't the only one who has had the benefit of his work. He just had the burst speed and clean foot skills to make use of Naitanui's dominance. Priddis received taps as well (7th in clearances in 2012, 3rd in 2013, 4th in 2014 and 1st in 2015) but just didn't have the speed to always make the most of it. Also Sheed was ranked in the top 20 players in the league for clearances in both 2020 and 2021 due to Naitanui's tap work.

It's just a fantasy but if peak Naitanui had played with Judd, Kerr and Cousins that would've been an unrivalled midfield combination that would have been spoken about in folklore for football eternity.

 

[squashface]

I'll put it this way, Dean Cox complimented an already elite midfield, I wouldn't say he necessarily elevated them (at least not to any substantial amount).
Naitanui has elevated a lot of players to a higher level I don't think they would've reached had they had any other ruckman in the league (even Gawn).
A perfect example of this is the trajectory of Luke Shuey (noting the current similar thread on him on this board atm). Taking nothing away from Shuey's fantastic career he wouldn't have been nearly as devastating at clearances (particularly centre clearances) had he not have Naitanui tapping to him.
Don't believe me have a watch of this lengthy highlight I made of Naitanui's most dominant (at least in terms of total HOs) year in 2015:

The amount of perfect taps Naitanui gave our mids over their careers (especially Shuey) is just astonishing and almost certainly was a decisive factor to us making the grand final in 2015. Of course Shuey isn't the only one who has had the benefit of his work. He just had the burst speed and clean foot skills to make use of Naitanui's dominance. Priddis received taps as well (7th in clearances in 2012, 3rd in 2013, 4th in 2014 and 1st in 2015) but just didn't have the speed to always make the most of it. Also Sheed was ranked in the top 20 players in the league for clearances in both 2020 and 2021 due to Naitanui's tap work.

It's just a fantasy but if peak Naitanui had played with Judd, Kerr and Cousins that would've been an unrivalled midfield combination that would have been spoken about in folklore for football eternity.

Yeah but he takes no uncontested marks on the flanks. Underachieving spud.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Yeah but he takes no uncontested marks on the flanks. Underachieving spud.

Probably sucked at rebound 50s as well.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I’ve always said that Naitanui-Shuey is second only to Lade-S Burgoyne in the ruck-mid combos I have seen link up. Sometimes a duo just has that synergy.

 

[RookiePick]

Nic's mother passing in late 2015 was possibly a sliding doors moment for our man.

Nic was immense in 2015. In the good way.

 

[Rowan18]

I'll put it this way, Dean Cox complimented an already elite midfield, I wouldn't say he necessarily elevated them (at least not to any substantial amount).
Naitanui has elevated a lot of players to a higher level I don't think they would've reached had they had any other ruckman in the league (even Gawn).
A perfect example of this is the trajectory of Luke Shuey (noting the current similar thread on him on this board atm). Taking nothing away from Shuey's fantastic career he wouldn't have been nearly as devastating at clearances (particularly centre clearances) had he not have Naitanui tapping to him.
Don't believe me have a watch of this lengthy highlight I made of Naitanui's most dominant (at least in terms of total HOs) year in 2015:

The amount of perfect taps Naitanui gave our mids over their careers (especially Shuey) is just astonishing and almost certainly was a decisive factor to us making the grand final in 2015. Of course Shuey isn't the only one who has had the benefit of his work. He just had the burst speed and clean foot skills to make use of Naitanui's dominance. Priddis received taps as well (7th in clearances in 2012, 3rd in 2013, 4th in 2014 and 1st in 2015) but just didn't have the speed to always make the most of it. Also Sheed was ranked in the top 20 players in the league for clearances in both 2020 and 2021 due to Naitanui's tap work.

It's just a fantasy but if peak Naitanui had played with Judd, Kerr and Cousins that would've been an unrivalled midfield combination that would have been spoken about in folklore for football eternity.

I forgot that we lost 2 of our first 3 that year (including a derby flogging by Freo). I miss the days when Simmo could innovate and change up the gameplan during the season.

 

[javaguice]

It really depends on what you thought he would achieve doesn't it?

I expected insane levels.... but the knees robbed us of his absolute prime years

 

[eagles rule]

Nic Nat hasn’t underachieved and will be a club great , it’s a shame that he was injured didn’t get the Premiership player added to his name ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WCErevival]

Having a quick read through the top ruckman thread on the main board shows how underrated he still is. People laughing at the suggestion he is in the discussion for the top 10 ruckmen.

Gawn is now seen as a god but its no coincidence his rise came as soon as Nic did his knee.

 

[bzparkes]

Hope when Nic know that his times up, he winds the clock back and launches into a few packs and into the kidneys of some opposition kents

Edited for our Freo lurking friends.

 

[Rowan18]

Having a quick read through the top ruckman thread on the main board shows how underrated he still is. People laughing at the suggestion he is in the discussion for the top 10 ruckmen.

Gawn is now seen as a god but its no coincidence his rise came as soon as Nic did his knee.

I don't think he's in the top echelon of all time greats but Gawn certainly isn't either. We're in an era where rucks are at a low ebb. In the mid 2010s teams weren't even bothering to draft them, forcing the league to ban the third man up. It's no surprise that the same bunch of oldies (Goldy, Gawn, Nic Nat) have been sharing the AA jumpers for years.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I don't think he's in the top echelon of all time greats but Gawn certainly isn't either. We're in an era where rucks are at a low ebb. In the mid 2010s teams weren't even bothering to draft them, forcing the league to ban the third man up. It's no surprise that the same bunch of oldies (Goldy, Gawn, Nic Nat) have been sharing the AA jumpers for years.

I swear I'm going to have to avoid this thread from hereon or I'm at risk of blowing a fuse.

 

[random260]

I 100% believe so.

His first two years were I sweat more impactful then recent years. Maybe it's nostalgia. But his first two years showed he could play in FWD line and be a beast but for whatever reason it went away. Perhaps weight or ACL.

Based on his talent alone I expected him to be the Buddy Franklin of Ruck. He showed it but never solidified that often out of his control. I mean he achieved rather well but not to his full Max physical potential.

 

[WCE_phil]

I 100% believe so.

His first two years were I sweat more impactful then recent years. Maybe it's nostalgia. But his first two years showed he could play in FWD line and be a beast but for whatever reason it went away. Perhaps weight or ACL.

Based on his talent alone I expected him to be the Buddy Franklin of Ruck. He showed it but never solidified that often out of his control. I mean he achieved rather well but not to his full Max physical potential.

Champion data did an analysis based off of the 2021 season and released details to clubs in regards to player impact. Naitanui was over 20% more impactful than any other player in the league when on the ground. That is with 2 ****ed knees.