News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yes, we need to consider the source. An organisation who thrives on this kind of thing. Present evidence, and maybe I'll listen. All I've heard are allegations. It's all the rage right now to scream racism without proof, and for some reason everyone assumes it's true.

The source being one of the most respected journalists in the country?

Can guarantee you weren't Mr Mediawatch during the * doping scandal.

Also - weren't you the poster who had a cry because they renamed Waverley?

 

[Mississippi]

Pardon the intrusion.

I work for an Aboriginal Community Controlled Organisation and have worked predominantly with Aboriginal people (with both professionals and clients) for around 15 years.

Just a couple of observations:

Kennett
There is simply no sense of 'pisstake'/dressing-down humour in the Aboriginal communities I've worked in. I've spent hundreds of hours in the community with Aboriginal men and they can laugh constantly from the start of the day until the end, but rarely at the expense of each other. There are deep cultural reasons for this that I'm not in a position to explain. The only time I've seen this occur is when two parties are extremely angry with one another and about to 'do battle' - the intention being to inflict pain on the other and their family.

Couple this with the collective sense of 'shame' in Aboriginal and mocking someone's appearance (torn jeans) in front of another Aboriginal person. The death nail would have been the use of loose change, offering money for that person to improve their appearance. Finally, the fact it came from a powerful White male would hold deep-seated colonial trauma. It's bizarre, because I've seen an extreme range of behaviours and terms used by Aboriginal people about each other and the non-Indigenous community, but the personal takedowns just do not seem to be in the vernacular (at the base level).

Kennett meant it as an off-hand joke, there was no malice and I believe that he would've said 3 million times in his life to a range of people. But that's the perspective I imagine may have been taken.

Pregnancy
Reading between the lines, I imagine that the relationship of 'Ian' and 'Amy' was deemed to be conflictual (possible DV, trauma, domestic arguments) and at some point the club felt the player's partner was the primary issue and that they needed to step in and resolve it. I imagine the player was extremely talented and had the potential to take the club to new heights - or they simply would have allowed the player time away and delisted them at season's end.

This is a mistake non-Indigenous make time and time again - I've witnessed this heavily in the Child Protection and Justice system. A problem is identified, and a solution is actioned based on the decision of powerful non-Indigenous people (justified in the best interests of the afflicted party).

Again, the road to hell here is paved with good intentions - we as non-Indigenous people think of binary solutions that create exponential/logarithmic outcomes (i.e. cutting off the issue leads to X10 performance from our product). The binary thinking comes from a 'that party is the issue, and they must be stopped. Terminate, remove and cut-off is the way to address this. From there, our product will now meet another party who is a better influence. Their performance will multiply and we will consider this a success'.

An Aboriginal community response is much more layered - it involves a great deal of deep and reflective listening (dadirri), it involves a lot more family members and input, and the solutions are rarely linear and will unlikely align with a simple model of product success/failure. One thing I will say, is that every solution will likely include more family contact, connection and engagement. Not less. We as non-Aboriginal people are the experts at subtraction and removal (imprisonment, removal into care, removal of freedoms and liberties) which is what has been applied here.

Moral of the Story? I don't know if one, two or any of those people deserve to be sacked or cut off forever - none of your staff are individually morally corrupted. This is a deep-seated, systemic issue that's been in place since 1788. It involves hundreds of years of differently evolved thought and values between two cultures that couldn't be more different. All we need is more education and understanding to work through this over the coming generations. For God sake the majority of Aboriginal players in your State come from distances that would be considered from one end of Europe to the other, find ways of bringing in culture and Aboriginal people that are specific to their needs - it's 2022. And when things get really hairy, let them to be the ones to form the circle, to start and finish their Yarns as their custom dictates.

I genuinely hope your club doesn't swing the axe here - try something that doesn't remove, subtract or eliminate. Trust me - It's been done.

Stingbitten, thank you - an intelligent and insightful post.

But the axe will certainly be swung.

I know it's early days but ....
There will probably be legal damages claims from the players involved
Undoubtedly WorkSafe proceedings issued against the club
Probable AFL penalties and sanctions against the club
Potentially criminal charges against the coaches involved and may be against the club vicariously .

Sadly, the club will be in the headlines for months, potentially years, for all the wrong reasons.

 

[dixyland]

Normally I am proud of being a Hawks member, but not today.

I hope the people involved face severe sanctions, and I would not be surprised if the club does too.

 

[Hawk1986]

Will talk along with the incoming president

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Is it possible that these players were having trouble with their spouse and in trying to help, the people accused crossed the line. I find it hard to believe even if they have proven to have done the wrong thing that it was out of malice.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Will talk along with the incoming president

Interesting that Kennett won't be doing it. Feel for Nank - first press conference is this absolute dumpster fire of a situation.

 

[Bremner20]

Yes, we need to consider the source. An organisation who thrives on this kind of thing. Present evidence, and maybe I'll listen. All I've heard are allegations. It's all the rage right now to scream racism without proof, and for some reason everyone assumes it's true.

Exactly my thoughts but it’s in minority apparently so like everywhere else a differing opinion is not allowed . See how it plays out but by the looks Clarkson and Fagan have already been found guilty by popular demand .

 

[joe444]

The source being one of the most respected journalists in the country?

Can guarantee you weren't Mr Mediawatch during the * doping scandal.

And the original source is the report commissioned by the club itself. Channel Nine reporting that these allegations are just the tip of the iceberg. Holy moly.

As others have said, this is not about club rivalries nor about perceived 'woke' media. Geelong has its own very difficult past, including with its inability to support Ezra Bray and, allegedly, a 1980s policy of overlooking indigenous players entirely ...

 

[Hawker55]

Yes, we need to consider the source. An organisation who thrives on this kind of thing. Present evidence, and maybe I'll listen. All I've heard are allegations. It's all the rage right now to scream racism without proof, and for some reason everyone assumes it's true.

The source is a Club initiated report that was taken seriously enough to be passed on to the AFL Integrity Unit. That kind of dickhead "they're out to get us" behaviour is what I'd expect of Essendon fans, not Hawks.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Normally I am proud of being a Hawks member, but not today.

I hope the people involved face severe sanctions, and I would not be surprised if the club does too.

What sanction could the club face. Collingwood got no sanctions. This is an individual person situation. if the accused are proven guilty should get punished.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Exactly my thoughts but it’s in minority apparently so like everywhere else a differing opinion is not allowed . See how it plays out but by the looks Clarkson and Fagan have already been found guilty by popular demand .

Get in the bin dude...

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Exactly my thoughts but it’s in minority apparently so like everywhere else a differing opinion is not allowed . See how it plays out but by the looks Clarkson and Fagan have already been found guilty by popular demand .

'My OpInIoN Is NoT AlLoWeD' - continues to post his feelings without a thread ban. How's the persecution going for you?

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

2012 was only a decade ago.
2016 was 6 years.
Clarko was still around only a last year.

The buck does not stop in the past, it must pass through the whole admin structure.
We won't lose draft picks, but we should not be thinking about footy performance in times like these.
Making excuses like this is why we continue to have cultural problems, especially with first nations people, all through the past two decades after our supposed "awakening" from our white-only recruitment policy.

There is no reason why the club can not do both at the same time.

An it is important we do both at the same time to ensure a better club

Is it possible that these players were having trouble with their spouse and in trying to help, the people accused crossed the line. I find it hard to believe even if they have proven to have done the wrong thing that it was out of malice.

The conversation could of went, Clarko " your options are abortion or be a young dad".

Player took it as a demand rather than there options being laid out for them, maybe?

 

[Bremner20]

'My OpInIoN Is NoT AlLoWeD' - continues to post his feelings without a thread ban. How's the persecution going for you?

Strange I didn’t think it was one of your self righteous rants I was replying to on this occasion . Or are you in the habit of poking your nose in regardless ??

 

[Dixie Flatline]

One thing is for sure, we as a club never had the systems/ indigenous welfare officers at our club when it was badly needed to assist. (The gentleman that was previously interviewed after the Cyril release told us it was a role he held that was part time and basically ticking a box by the club and the culture was one of “win at all costs”)

Hawthorn said back when the report was commissioned they would be making no further comment until the findings of the report were in.

Why did the ABC run with it online before we made any comment?

It leaves us open to accusations of us trying to cover things up again.

Some tough times ahead for our club.

The article clearly states that Clarkson and Fagan were approached to comment and did not respond prior to publication. The article indicates that Hawthorn chose not to respond to the questions put to it by the journalist, and the article sets out a statement from Hawthorn which I believe is the statement Hawthorn published on its website earlier today.

Having sought comment from Clarkson, Fagan and the Hawthorn Football Club, and once the internal checks have been completed, there was no reason for the ABC to hold back on the publication of the story.

 

[Blues_Man]

Excuse my intrusion, but i just wanted to say, whilst these allegations are absolutely disgusting and that if proven then all involved needs to be removed from any position in the industry. That you as supporters should feel no guilt for what individuals have done whilst at your club. The feelings of shame should be left to the guilty parties, not the poor bloody supporters left to pick up the pieces.

 

[Fulgent]

Like everyone else, I’m shocked. I can’t reconcile it with the reported sensitivity we showed when recruiting Amos Frank, which apparently involved seeking permission from APY elders for him to come to us.
I’m mindful we’ve only heard one side of the story so far, which is horrific, but what was heard may not have been said, due to cultural differences.
Whatever the case, we needed to do a lot better and it highlights the need for players to have a safe place to turn to.
I won’t be burning my membership but this news takes away a lot of the pride I have in my club.

 

[TylerDurden]

North have called an emergency meeting.
Clarko to step down. Assuming it's while the investigation plays out.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Is it possible that these players were having trouble with their spouse and in trying to help, the people accused crossed the line. I find it hard to believe even if they have proven to have done the wrong thing that it was out of malice.

Doesn't matter.
The stolen generations were inflicted by people trying to help.
It didn't.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Like everyone else, I’m shocked. I can’t reconcile it with the reported sensitivity we showed when recruiting Amos Frank, which apparently involved seeking permission from APY elders for him to come to us.
I’m mindful we’ve only heard one side of the story so far, which is horrific, but what was heard may not have been said, due to cultural differences.
Whatever the case, we needed to do a lot better and it highlights the need for players to have a safe place to turn to.
I won’t be burning my membership but this news takes away a lot of the pride I have in my club.

Mate of mine worked for an organisation that puts itself out there as impeccably ethical, socially and environmentally, and attracts customers on that basis. Internally however it is like the 1980s in the way they treat staff and my mate who is loyal as they day is long ended up quitting without another job to go to he was so pushed to the bring by management that sought to make his life a living hell. This is a bloke who is adored by managers at his ex-employer who still regularly catch up with him and are very close friends. Sometimes the outward spin an organisation puts on things doesn't match what is happening internally. Potentially this is what has happened here - we have put all the right social media posts up, showed that we are changing but inside the four walls of the club old school attitudes were still present and manifesting in pretty ugly ways.

 

[joe444]

Yes, we need to consider the source. An organisation who thrives on this kind of thing. Present evidence, and maybe I'll listen. All I've heard are allegations. It's all the rage right now to scream racism without proof, and for some reason everyone assumes it's true.

Actually it's not hearsay. The individuals providing the evidence were literally in the room, which is the opposite of hearsay.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Stingbitten, thank you - an intelligent and insightful post.

But the axe will certainly be swung.

I know it's early days but ....
There will probably be legal damages claims from the players involved
Undoubtedly WorkSafe proceedings issued against the club
Probable AFL penalties and sanctions against the club
Potentially criminal charges against the coaches involved and may be against the club vicariously .

Sadly, the club will be in the headlines for months, potentially years, for all the wrong reasons.

It will be the individuals.

I'm sure the club will offer substantial financial assistance towards those victims or in the form of a retrospective fine.

However I don't see how anybody involved at the club in 2023 will be affected since they had nothing to do with it.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

See my other reply, Rioli was drafted after Jeans had finished up. Not wanting an argument, but are you really going to hang your hat on 1 game when Kennedy had to stand in as coach because the actual coach was involved in a car accident on the way to the game?

Probably a good time to stop now.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Strange I didn’t think it was one of your self righteous rants I was replying to on this occasion . Or are you in the habit of poking your nose in regardless ??

It’s time to log off.