News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[brad sue well]

Altruism is about selflessness.
If you want to attribute any selflessness to Cyril in this mess, it likely starts and stops at being the leading edge for playing mates he probably thinks don't have the iron stomach to come at our Club or AFL with their stories.
It would be enormously difficult being lower profile players that don't feel empowered in Australian society, and taking on such large corporations and public figures.
It's likely Cyril is acting their champion having navigated public scrutiny for much of his career, and that he feels a duty to give voice to their grievances.

I still reckon he'd achieve far more at the table with Sam and Andy than he can hope to achieve in a finding of our court system.
And that, would be altruistic.

Well said.

Not disagreeing and earlier wrote a course without this being pubic has everyone in a safer place but would need to be on the terms of the families.

My post above should have included HFC Indigenous Advisory Committee, another change not done without this stand. It was slow to surface, but it’s here now. Two fairly big changes in a resistant industry (see Age article above).

While it was the HRC forum, families have sat down with HFC and we have court to follow. There isn’t a playbook and there may well be more change to come.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

Altruism is about selflessness.
If you want to attribute any selflessness to Cyril in this mess, it likely starts and stops at being the leading edge for playing mates he probably thinks don't have the iron stomach to come at our Club or AFL with their stories.
It would be enormously difficult being lower profile players that don't feel empowered in Australian society, and taking on such large corporations and public figures.
It's likely Cyril is acting their champion having navigated public scrutiny for much of his career, and that he feels a duty to give voice to their grievances.

I still reckon he'd achieve far more at the table with Sam and Andy than he can hope to achieve in a finding of our court system.
And that, would be altruistic.

I don't disagree at all with your last paragraph. But unfortunately neither were in charge during the inital report nor in positions of power during the period of inquiry (although Sam was a senior player at the time). I think everyone was hopeful that after Andy took over this could all be handled away from court and we could move forward a better place for it. Hopefully that outcome can still occur.

Regarding the altruisim; I'm glad we may have come to some consensus that there may have been some altruism involved . Apologies if it ever felt personal it was not meant to be.

 

[brad sue well]

On altruism, I wonder if any coaches have thought to educate themselves on how allegations have caused hurt. Can’t see it but probably not public as it may be seen as admission of guilt.

Tom Morris spent 12 months with the industry learning from experts before his reintroduction. Heck of a privilege to be able to. Like him or not, it is an action that is about the ‘other’.

 

[killerspud]

On altruism, I wonder if any coaches have thought to educate themselves on how allegations have caused hurt. Can’t see it but probably not public as it may be seen as admission of guilt.

Tom Morris spent 12 months with the industry learning from experts before his reintroduction. Heck of a privilege to be able to. Like him or not, it is an action that is about the ‘other’.

Tommy is a Melbourne Grammar boy with deep industry connections. Caro started promoting him (doubt he will work at fox again)

I know Cyril was at Scotch but having been to one of these places there are some who become part of the system and others who refuse to play.


Id love for him to sit down with Andy and Sam but I fear he wants to go after those directly responsible and the club stands in place of those who have left. My opinions of Grant Birchall have changed after what I read - cant believe you'd say that to a team mate

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I didn’t read the Clarkson article, is he still spinning it that he hasn’t had a chance to tell his side of the story?

 

[Mercy Seat]

I didn’t read the Clarkson article, is he still spinning it that he hasn’t had a chance to tell his side of the story?

No, he's basically suggesting that it was would have been resolved at the HRC if not for the lawyers.

“We are hoping there will be a resolution at some point in time and some context put to it all.”

Asked directly if the families who had made the complaints had wanted the case resolved, but their lawyers suggested they shouldn’t, Clarkson replied: “I think there was terrific goodwill from all parties in the Human Rights Commission, and then it goes beyond that and becomes more of a legal stoush. We will, hopefully, find more of a resolution elsewhere.”

 

[Bugs1977]

"IF only the lawyers left the room, i'd be able to get my guitar our and sing a song to convince them to settle and give in to my needs. Just like i did when they wanted to boycott after the Adam Goodes saga."

You needed to start off your comment with 'by and large' for it to have the full effect

 

[brad sue well]

Tommy is a Melbourne Grammar boy with deep industry connections. Caro started promoting him (doubt he will work at fox again)

I know Cyril was at Scotch but having been to one of these places there are some who become part of the system and others who refuse to play.


Id love for him to sit down with Andy and Sam but I fear he wants to go after those directly responsible and the club stands in place of those who have left. My opinions of Grant Birchall have changed after what I read - cant believe you'd say that to a team mate

That whole redemption arc was textbook Caro and Hutchi. Disappear for 12 months, warm him up, tell everyone he may never working in the industry again, get him back involved the following week with a female friend/colleague, check the ratings and go.

That in-depth podcast that Caro hosted where I’m pretty sure she forgot to declare her family connection to Tom (it was in an earlier episode). They mentioned his dad being an upstanding teacher at Melbourne Grammar, not sure why his dad was dragged into it, he didn’t mess up.

He had access to a full rehab program with involvement of the absolute highest advocates from each diversity group he offended to then fall back on his feet.

There are hundreds if not thousands of journalists lining up for his job. He seems as good as any journo but got there through privilege.

I know elite school families well, some of that ‘type’ and those with no interest in that stratosphere. When at a NAB league club the public/private divide was obvious.

As for Clarkson, the industry would wrap their arms around him if it was deemed the same was needed. Yet last year he had a crack at a female junior journalist and somehow thought it was okay to lob unannounced at her workplace hours later to apologise. There is so much wrong with that. His comments today were hot air yet wouldn’t have the capacity to realise seemingly banal comments can enflame(neither the North media team). He really needs a diagnosis, I 100% say that for his own health and others. If you have a problem with mental health chat, read it again with an open mind.

 

[HedgeFund]

Because he has engaged ambulance chasing lawyers to sue our club and cost our club millions of dollars already, this would send most other clubs to the wall financially.

Tell me you know very little about the law without telling me you know little about the law.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Tell me you know very little about the law without telling me you know little about the law.

This should be the thread title.

 

[Charchi]

Tell me you know very little about the law without telling me you know little about the law.

I’ve had enough dealings with that particular law firm to have an opinion, you can have yours, I will have mine.

 

[HedgeFund]

I’ve had enough dealings with that particular law firm to have an opinion, you can have yours, I will have mine.

ABL are far from an ambulance chasing law firm.

As for Cyril, no doubt he is comfortable financially and this has very little to do with getting for him.

I dare say it’s about the other players whose careers were very limited and their experience at the club includes the alleged treatment.

They would be far less financially independent and Cyril’s complaints are notably different to theirs.

Without Cyril as the lead plaintiff, the other claims would still have merit.

Further, on one view Cyril’s and Egan’s experiences are perhaps less traumatic - but who am I to tell him how he might / should have responded?

In summary I think Cyril’s action is more about acknowledgement and an apology, whilst the others may have more commercial considerations.

 

[brad sue well]

ABL are far from an ambulance chasing law firm.

As for Cyril, no doubt he is comfortable financially and this has very little to do with getting for him.

I dare say it’s about the other players whose careers were very limited and their experience at the club includes the alleged treatment.

They would be far less financially independent and Cyril’s complaints are notably different to theirs.

Without Cyril as the lead plaintiff, the other claims would still have merit.

Further, on one view Cyril’s and Egan’s experiences are perhaps less traumatic - but who am I to tell him how he might / should have responded?

In summary I think Cyril’s action is more about acknowledgement and an apology, whilst the others may have more commercial considerations.

Like it or not, these families are operating in a white construct. Origins of law in Aust via England? Sure, there have been adjustments and likely cultural understanding from staff but no organisation is going to be on top of it... Collingwood as one small example. Whoever the adjudicator for this case, is a pretty pivotal person here I would think.

As I have said before, there is a need to understand Community and brother and sisterhood. I don't fully understand it from lived experience but it isn't some sort of wear your hat backwards wannabe downtown L.A. rip off. Players make a point of going up to each other after game to say hi, regardless of if they know each other, this is connection. Indigenous health is not individual, it is Community level health and this is a health issue as well, mental and physical toll. Cyril is the profile here but he is doing it for himself but actually for others, he is doing it for the children of the other families, he is doing it for communities across the country who are watching as an AFL Elder told me... And we wonder why numbers aren't as high. This is one reason for sure, it isn't all of the reasons.

ABL have been chosen, players can't represent themselves. What about the other side's lawyers, are they making a buck? They are arguing, see those people, they say they are hurt, we don't believe it.

 

[Mississippi]

A really sensible post from brad sue well - with empathy that's sadly lacking on this topic.

There's a white, uncompromising obsession that the players, particularly Cyril, are trying to screw the system.
With lawyers involved, it has to be a giant scam.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Cyril is in Darwin and he has simply withdrawn from the white community. He's living a very modest life.
He's an incredibly proud man and he's hurting, shattered and he is utterly bewildered.

He walked away from $600K per year for around 4 years - and posters on this forum think he's now doing this for "coin" !!?
He's had multiple offers in Darwin over the last few years - for coin ! - to talk, or be interviewed or to take part in functions. And he's rejected them all.

Do people really think he wants to cash in and buy a 40 footer and sail around the Whitsundays !!?? FFS !

It's all about empathy and more people need to grow it.

 

[HedgeFund]

A really sensible post from brad sue well - with empathy that's sadly lacking on this topic.

There's a white, uncompromising obsession that the players, particularly Cyril, are trying to screw the system.
With lawyers involved, it has to be a giant scam.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Cyril is in Darwin and he has simply withdrawn from the white community. He's living a very modest life.
He's an incredibly proud man and he's hurting, shattered and he is utterly bewildered.

He walked away from $600K per year for around 4 years - and posters on this forum think he's now doing this for "coin" !!
He's has multiple offers in Darwin over the last few years - for coin ! - to talk, or be interviewed or to take part in functions. And he's rejected them all.

Do people really think he wants to cash in and buy a 40 footer and sail around the Whitsundays !!?? FFS !

It's all about empathy and more people need to grow it.

Yep - the idea that these ex-players are trying to bring the club down for as much coin as they can get makes little sense - when you actually read the statement of claim.

People need to appreciate what the plaintiffs claim was not done by the club, despite numerous opportunities / approaches at the relevant times.

That’s one of the reasons Egan is named as a plaintiff. He should have been involved and/or made aware of these issues and clearly that didn’t happen.

 

[Lebbo73]

Nope…


Flincher said “You think Impey came to us because the other indigenous boys before him told him we had a shit culture for our Aboriginal players?”

Always capitalise 'Indigenous', ‘First Nations’, 'Aboriginal' and ‘Torres Strait Islander’ when you're referring to Indigenous Australians, but not when you are referring generically to the original inhabitants of other continents.

I call them fellow Australian’s

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I call them fellow Australian’s

Probably a bad idea to enter a grammatical argument when you misuse an apostrophe.

 

[CD Xbow]

Phil Egan, the man who wrote the report has been changed with stealing $779,000 from the organisation he worked for by adding a bit to contractor invoices - allegedly.

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

 

[Yardie]

Phil Egan, the man who wrote the report has been changed with stealing $779,000 from the organisation he worked for by adding a bit to contractor invoices - allegedly.

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

And this has what to do with the players?

 

[CD Xbow]

And this has what to do with the players?

The man ran the inquiry. He should be of integrity, it appears he is not. It you have ever investigated anything and written a report, you will be well aware of the power of the investigator, they can bring bias, they can lead witnesses on and essentially frame the report in anyway they wish. That's why you need folks with integrity.

 

[Yardie]

The man ran the inquiry. He should be of integrity, it appears he is not. It you have ever investigated anything and written a report, you will be well aware of the power of the investigator, they can bring bias, they can lead witnesses on and essentially frame the report in anyway they wish. That's why you need folks with integrity.

So what you are implying is that the players where coerced into their stories, hence you can character assassinate them by proxy.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

So what you are implying is that the players where coerced into their stories, hence you can character assassinate them by proxy.

The lawyers will

 

[CD Xbow]

So what you are implying is that the players where coerced into their stories, hence you can character assassinate them by proxy.

Please show me where I have character assassinated them by proxy.
Show me.

 

[Yardie]

Please show me where I have character assassinated them by proxy.
Show me.

The players have consistently maintained their version of events to the point of lodging a complaint in the courts. So why bring up the Phil Egan case? Your response below implies that Egan led the witnesses on and framed the report for an outcome. That's implying the players aren't to be taken seriously. Which is just trying to character assassinate them.

The man ran the inquiry. He should be of integrity, it appears he is not. It you have ever investigated anything and written a report, you will be well aware of the power of the investigator, they can bring bias, they can lead witnesses on and essentially frame the report in anyway they wish. That's why you need folks with integrity.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Phil Egan, the man who wrote the report has been changed with stealing $779,000 from the organisation he worked for by adding a bit to contractor invoices - allegedly.

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

If the complaint relied explicitly on the report, then I expect those parts will be challenged. And if it didn’t rely on the report explicitly, then I expect the argument will be made that the report’s findings are implicit and the complaint will be challenged again.

Or, maybe no one brings it up in the case. We’ll have to see what the defence files.