News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

https://archive.md/jCywl - Herald Scum article is here.

This bit is honestly straight out of the UK version of The Office:

The statement of claim also references an incident in May 2015 when Clarkson allegedly turned up to a meeting held by several Hawthorn Indigenous players over a proposed boycott amid fallout from the Adam Goodes booing saga.

“Mr Clarkson … invited himself to the meeting … imposed himself on, and derailed, the meeting, by bringing his guitar and singing a song about Mr Rioli … (and) discouraged the players from going through with the boycott.”

 

[RobHawk]

Cyril would have an arguable loss of earnings case as an established and highly paid star who retired young. The others would struggle to prove they'd have earned much in the counterfactual.

Did Cyril seek a transfer to another club where he might have been on an even higher salary?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Did Cyril seek a transfer to another club where he might have been on an even higher salary?

If what Cyril saw and experienced is true, you don't think it would have turned him off professional football for good rather than just seeking a trade?

 

[RobHawk]

If what Cyril saw and experienced is true, you don't think it would have just turned him off professional football for good rather than just seeking a trade?

You are probably correct Ned. But won't that be the counter argument anyway?

 

[hardway]

If what Cyril saw and experienced is true, you don't think it would have turned him off professional football for good rather than just seeking a trade?

How many seasons did his hamstrings have left?

 

[DogDaySonny]

Wow, talk about ugly. I assume Brad Hill will get a subpoena to testify on the conversations he was alleged to have been part of. And Silk to either confirm or deny the allegations were raised with him, the player rep, I believe. Is that last bit right? He was the player rep at the time? And Birchall to testify to the conversations as well. And HR records documenting all this.

Wowzers.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You are probably correct Ned. But won't that be the counter argument anyway?

Can't be sure - I am not a lawyer, I just argue recreationally.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Wow, talk about ugly. I assume Brad Hill will get a subpoena to testify on the conversations he was alleged to have been part of. And Silk to either confirm or deny the allegations were raised with him, the player rep, I believe. Is that last bit right? He was the player rep at the time? And Birchall to testify to the conversations as well. And HR records documenting all this.

Wowzers.

From memory early on in the accusation piece didn't Burgoyne confirm that he had heard about the alleged Birchall incident and it was handled within the leadership group? Or perhaps it was Hodge.

It might explain why Hill both departed the club and didn't return when he came back to Melbourne, or have at least somewhat contributed to both.

 

[RobHawk]

Can't be sure - I am not a lawyer, I just argue recreationally.

Proud to say likewise

 

[Ned Ryerson]

How many seasons did his hamstrings have left?

Well the club gave him a contract to the end of 2019 so clearly the thought at least a handful more.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[TylerDurden]

It's all coming out now.

 

[DogDaySonny]

From memory early on in the accusation piece didn't Burgoyne confirm that he had heard about the alleged Birchall incident and it was handled within the leadership group? Or perhaps it was Hodge.

It might explain why Hill both departed the club and didn't return when he came back to Melbourne, or have at least somewhat contributed to both.

Any claims of motivations would need to be documented by evidence from that point of time. HR claims, corroborating testimony, etc. If the claims were raised (and there will be documentation to this effect - even if only email) and “Hawthorn did nothing about it” then the people the claims were raised to will be testifying, including explaining why they did nothing about it.

And, of course, evidence of actual damages must be tested. Player managers will need to testify. Did the players discuss this with them? Pursue other clubs? Say the guitar made them quit (would have made me quit - stupid guitars don’t belong in a football club unless they are electric and banging).

And, I assume, the question of whether this is racial animus or just old-fashioned a-hole behaviour must be addressed. I have no idea if it’s relevant or not but I assume it is as the claimants have racism as an issue.

 

[hawkman]

Wanganeen was delisted at the end of 2014. Did he go back to Box Hill?

 

[DogDaySonny]

So now Silk will need to testify as to whether this recollection is correct? Wow. Everyone is being dragged into this.

 

[smish]

Birch won't be pleased.

 

[HedgeFund]

According to the heraldSun the aboriginal guy who who was asked by a Hawk if his Mrs’s was a Boong too is not even apart of this application. The heraldSun names both players in this conversation, BF ask that we do not.

One player is now at the Saints and the other played with lions and now works there. No not our captain.

Amazing this can issue can be a part of the complaint without the leading player involved.

The scenario that particular player may have been spoken to by another player in a manner as described above doesn’t mean he is duty bound to join the legal proceedings.

He may well have been impacted differently from that question being asked than others may have.

 

[DogDaySonny]

I am surprised that Kennett’s torn jeans still hasn’t made it into a claim given the focus is has received here and elsewhere on the Internets.

 

[HedgeFund]

How many seasons did his hamstrings have left?

…..I guess we will never know.

 

[smish]

FYI, full statement here

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/120048/2024-07-26_Statement-of-Claim.pdf

 

[Tanami]

Does anyone know who Cyril's & Brad Hills manager were at the time?

One would think Cyril & Brad at this time would have complained to their manager .

Who in turn would have complained to the AFL about what was going on.

Why didn't the manager take to the top office at the time?

I find this very strange.

If they were prepared to stand down for a game in protest regarding Goodes....why isn't this the same situation?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Any claims of motivations would need to be documented by evidence from that point of time. HR claims, corroborating testimony, etc. If the claims were raised (and there will be documentation to this effect - even if only email) and “Hawthorn did nothing about it” then the people the claims were raised to will be testifying, including explaining why they did nothing about it.

And, of course, evidence of actual damages must be tested. Player managers will need to testify. Did the players discuss this with them? Pursue other clubs? Say the guitar made them quit (would have made me quit - stupid guitars don’t belong in a football club unless they are electric and banging).

And, I assume, the question of whether this is racial animus or just old-fashioned a-hole behaviour must be addressed. I have no idea if it’s relevant or not but I assume it is as the claimants have racism as an issue.

Footy players are mostly blunt instruments and I don't think the footy club environment operates like the professional/corporate environments we might work in. So whether there are the paper trails I don't know - but I would guess, no. Players probably took qualms to the leadership group who likely weren't taking minutes of meetings.

 

[RobHawk]

Because he is claiming lost earnings and I assume any half decent defence lawyer would bring up the point that he had the option to seek a transfer.
And maybe end up with a higher salary at another club.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Does anyone know who Cyril's & Brad Hills manager were at the time?

One would think Cyril & Brad at this time would have complained to their manager .

Who in turn would have complained to the AFL about what was going on.

Why didn't the manager take to the top office at the time?

I find this very strange.

If they were prepared to stand down for a game in protest regarding Goodes....why isn't this the same situation?

Good point. If they had someone like Ricky Nixon then who knows what sort of records may exist? But if they, like many players, have a lawyer as their manager then there will be file notes somewhere. Being married to a lawyer, it seems that if a client sneezes twice on Tuesday then a file notes that.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Good point. If they had someone like Ricky Nixon then who knows what sort of records may exist? But if they, like many players, have a lawyer as their manager then there will be file notes somewhere. Being married to a lawyer, it seems that if a client sneezes twice on Tuesday then a file notes that.

Yes but lawyers are addicted to file notes - it's like crack to them. Player managers, in a lot of cases, are just former players who are good at deal making. Having worked with professions dealing with very vital financial information - the lack of record keeping at times is baffling. I wouldn't be shocked if player agents aren't exactly beacons of note taking.