News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Perrip]

Wanganeen was delisted at the end of 2014. Did he go back to Box Hill?

Was in Adelaide then:

 

[hawkman]

From that statement of claim, Fagan is unlucky to have been dragged into all of this

 

[Ned Ryerson]

For those interested - best as I can find - player managers at the time would have been Colin Young for Hill and Adam Ramanauskas

Adam Ramanauskas

Age

43

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.6

4star

for Cyril. Not sure either have legal backgrounds so likely not the greatest of record keeping.

 

[hawkman]

Was in Adelaide then:

View attachment 2069661

Now I have looked at the statement, it looks like they mixed the names up as the correct player is in the paragraph after

 

[brad sue well]

Good point. If they had someone like Ricky Nixon then who knows what sort of records may exist? But if they, like many players, have a lawyer as their manager then there will be file notes somewhere. Being married to a lawyer, it seems that if a client sneezes twice on Tuesday then a file notes that.

Reflected in Burt's professional notes as well and consent to share information and with who... I spoke to a PDM at a different club, it was their personal computer that was used... as I have said, this job isn't for a past player who is a 'good bloke'.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Footy players are mostly blunt instruments and I don't think the footy club environment operates like the professional/corporate environments we might work in. So whether there are the paper trails I don't know - but I would guess, no. Players probably took qualms to the leadership group who likely weren't taking minutes of meetings.

Andy Gowers has stated many times there is paper work covering these matters. Let’s hope it assists with a resolution asap.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Reflected in Burt's professional notes as well and consent to share information and with who... I spoke to a PDM at a different club, it was their personal computer that was used... as I have said, this job isn't for a past player who is a 'good bloke'.

in Ricky Nixon's case he is definitely a past player but I am not sure he was ever in the ballpark of being a good bloke.

 

[SammyC]

the club is responsible for having the policies, processes and resources in place to effectively deal with matters like this in a culturally safe manner.

'dealt with by the leadership group' does not cut it. The fact that there might not be records of events speaks to the clubs failings.

If proved, we are absolutely liable and will cost stacks. But I can't see how if this is proven Clarkson's position is tenable at North. He might not be subject to the claim but he can't escape judgment in the court of public opinion. The players can blame the club and we are responsible, but clarkson can't blame us for his behaviour.

All subject to being proven of course.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

From that statement of claim, Fagan is unlucky to have been dragged into all of this

Absolutely. So he nodded? WTF.
Maybe he was nodding off..

I know this is a delicate, serious and quite sad issue but as for Clarko whipping out his guitar and serenading the boys, I just can't get the thought of him crooning Kimberly Moon to the boys out of my head..

 

[brad sue well]

in Ricky Nixon's case he is definitely a past player but I am not sure he was ever in the ballpark of being a good bloke.

PDM I am referring to, not manager. Lot's of good blokes are in these roles.

 

[swampy]

The statement of claim is very tough reading. As a new father I found the parts dealing with Peterson and Miller-Lewis particularly difficult.

I also understand the claims have been rejected by Clarkson, Burt, Fagan etc.

I can only hope the process brings out the truth (whatever that may be) and provides closure to those involved.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

PDM I am referring to, not manager. Lot's of good blokes are in these roles.

Oh I know - I just like always making it known that Ricky Nixon is human filth.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Perhaps when it was actually written down it looked as silly as it sounds

Or because as Cyril and Shannon have said it was just the breaking point and there were deeper issues at play.

 

[hawkman]

Also unless I missed it in the original allegations, I'm surprised Cameron Matthews never was part of the major claims originally compared to the role Fagan seemed to have had

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Genuinely curious - how would telling someone to break up with their partner and encourage their partner to terminate a pregnancy be made any better because of the venue?

Neither is good! Personally however I think it’s more to do with optics. Charging to someone’s home demanding and making them do things in real time that they do not want to do.

Via the office The player can leave head quarters and has space to think about there options and make there own decision at home in a safe space. The second option feels a little less like bullying in my opinion.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Perhaps when it was actually written down it looked as silly as it sounds

That paragon of journalistic credibility, news.com.au has the ripped jeans reference.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-champion-cyril-rioli-says-he-retired-because-of-racism-court-documents-show/news-story/bef123738a33b8fb9361ba40156e3a03

 

[Brishawk]

From memory early on in the accusation piece didn't Burgoyne confirm that he had heard about the alleged Birchall incident and it was handled within the leadership group? Or perhaps it was Hodge.

It might explain why Hill both departed the club and didn't return when he came back to Melbourne, or have at least somewhat contributed to both.

It was Lewis.

 

[Mississippi]

Absolutely. So he nodded? WTF.
Maybe he was nodding off..

Why?
Don’t you get it?
Fagan was a leader at the club and present in a meeting where there’s some disgraceful conduct towards indigenous players and he’s nodding his head in agreement. He’s condoning the conduct of others.

If he had any balls he’s butt in and say “that’s enough fellas? We’ve crossed a line here”.

In other words, he’s part of the culture at the club that’s allegedly caused these problems.

 

[brad sue well]

Why?
Don’t you get it?
Fagan was a leader at the club and present in a meeting where there’s some disgraceful conduct towards indigenous players and he’s nodding his head in agreement. He’s condoning the conduct of others.

If he had any balls he’s butt in and say “that’s enough fellas? We’ve crossed a line here”.

In other words, he’s part of the culture at the club that’s allegedly caused these problems.

The most senior in the Department, Clarkson's boss... reported to the CEO and or Board? Salary cap overseer.

Leigh Matthews comments a few weeks back come to mind.

 

[Brishawk]

Because he is claiming lost earnings and I assume any half decent defence lawyer would bring up the point that he had the option to seek a transfer.
And maybe end up with a higher salary at another club.

Im sure that will be argued but the players will argue they were psychologically injured such that they could not continue playing.

 

[Billyc]

I am surprised that Kennett’s torn jeans still hasn’t made it into a claim given the focus is has received here and elsewhere on the Internets.

It is in there - para 96.

The pleading makes for very uncomfortable reading, particularly in relation to Peterson. Serious allegations against Clarkson, Burt and Matthews. The allegations against Fagan are limited to him being present during what is described as an awful discussion in which Peterson is alleged to have been encouraged to leave his partner and have the pregnancy terminated.

The club should have settled this.

 

[HedgeFund]

It is in there - para 96.

The pleading makes for very uncomfortable reading, particularly in relation to Peterson. Serious allegations against Clarkson, Burt and Matthews. The allegations against Fagan are limited to him being present during what is described as an awful discussion in which Peterson is alleged to have been encouraged to leave his partner and have the pregnancy terminated.

The club should have settled this.

Part of any possible settlement had to involve acknowledgment from not only the club, but employees that conduct had occurred which was discriminatory based on race.

That was never going to happen.

Now it will be up to a Federal Court Judge to decide.

I’ll go so far to say this, IF a Judge determines that the allegations contained in this statement have been proven on the balance of probabilities, it’s bad enough in itself.

Whether or not significant damages for loss of income / potential income would flow is probably less of a concern.

It’s the fault element which would be devastating to the club.

 

[cryptor]

Is the claim that was filed available to the public in full?

I'm noting in these media reports of what is in the complaints that there is a lot of "words to the effect" preceding quotes.

It strips all nuance and context from these conversations and is essentially just a summary of how what actually was said was interpreted.

 

[Billyc]

Part of any possible settlement had to involve acknowledgment from not only the club, but employees that conduct had occurred which was discriminatory based on race.

That was never going to happen.

If an offer is good enough, the demand for an acknowledgement falls away as the plaintiffs will be ordered to pay costs even if they win, if they can't exceed the offer(s). With separate firms and silks being instructed everywhere, the adverse costs orders in this case are going to dwarf any award of damages. Still expect the club will offer enough to make it go away before a trial but letting it get this far is damaging enough.

Plaintiffs certainly haven't held back on their own costs - ABL, 2 silks and 4 junior counsel just to draft a pleading...

 

[Billyc]

Is the claim that was filed available to the public in full?

I'm noting in these media reports of what is in the complaints that there is a lot of "words to the effect" preceding quotes.

It strips all nuance and context from these conversations and is essentially just a summary of how what actually was said was interpreted.

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/120048/2024-07-26_Statement-of-Claim.pdf