News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[MtGHawk]

It's ugly reading Hawks fans. Lots of grotesque, racist detail. Time for HFC to admit hurt caused and pay damages so people can move forward.

 

[Pharaoh]

It's really time to stop all the speculation and trial-by-media and let the court hear and resolve the matter. All parties to be presumed innocent unless proven guilty. The coaches in question certainly deny the allegations and have already been cleared by the AFL investigation.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

 

[MtGHawk]

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

Very bizarre. Unless players are fabricating which of course they're not. I rate Clarko and Fagan as good humans who just need to listen to the allegations, put their ego aside and admit fault.

 

[MtGHawk]

It's really time to stop all the speculation and trial-by-media and let the court hear and resolve the matter. All parties to be presumed innocent unless proven guilty. The coaches in question certainly deny the allegations and have already been cleared by the AFL investigation.

Did they deny allegations or did they deny that their alleged actions were racist?

 

[TONYC3163]

It's really time to stop all the speculation and trial-by-media and let the court hear and resolve the matter. All parties to be presumed innocent unless proven guilty. The coaches in question certainly deny the allegations and have already been cleared by the AFL investigation.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

By the AFL. The same AFL that conspired with ASADA to sweep the Drug Pigs' doping regime under the rug until WADA actually handled it properly. Let's not remotely pretend the AFL are an honest arbiter of anything.

 

[Rhayader]

It's really time to stop all the speculation and trial-by-media and let the court hear and resolve the matter. All parties to be presumed innocent unless proven guilty. The coaches in question certainly deny the allegations and have already been cleared by the AFL investigation.

Speculation? All this stuff today is straight of out actual court documents.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

They are allegations that we all asked to be tested in Court. Let it begin.

 

[MtGHawk]

Speculation? All this stuff today is straight out actual court documents.

Exactly. I'm sure the Sky News types will defend Clarko and crew but this stuff in the documents I'm reading leaves a sour taste.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Genuinely curious - how would telling someone to break up with their partner and encourage their partner to terminate a pregnancy be made any better because of the venue?

1. The supposed incident involved the partner being abusive towards the player. Semantics are important here

2. The termination of a child - the partner was supposedly at risk herself and the player asked for advice

 

[Mississippi]

By the AFL. The same AFL that conspired with ASADA to sweep the Drug Pigs' doping regime under the rug until WADA actually handled it properly. Let's not remotely pretend the AFL are an honest arbiter of anything.

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

No he wasn’t exonerated. Neither was Fagan.
The independent panel appointed by the AFL merely stated that there were no “adverse findings” against them.
That is a long way from saying they were exonerated.

The panel acknowledged that the players had grievances and were entitled to pursue them in the courts.
Which is now happening, regrettably.

 

[HedgeFund]

Speculation? All this stuff today is straight of out actual court documents.

Yes - trial documents which contain allegations.

The (civil) standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities and no one will be found “guilty” of anything as that’s a criminal (beyond reasonable doubt) finding.

The defendants will proceed to file their defences which one would expect won’t simply be a bare denial but will provide a different version / perspective.

Then a judge will proceed to hear evidence and consider the reliability and credibility of what each witness recalls happening.

Everyone is entitled to defend a civil claim like this - just as people are entitled to a presumption of innocence in the criminal courts

 

[hawk65]

Yet Clarko was exonerated??? How???

Did the players not participate in the AFL enquiry so they would not have been totally aware of the allegations which are now specified in the log of claims

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

No he wasn’t exonerated. Neither was Fagan.
The independent panel appointed by the AFL merely stated that there were no “adverse findings” against them.
That is a long way from saying they were exonerated.

The panel acknowledged that the players had grievances and were entitled to pursue them in the courts.
Which is now happening, regrettably.

Can you explain why you think it is regrettable. It also went to a further independent arbitration and there was no resolution.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Yes - trial documents which contain allegations.

The (civil) standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities and no one will be found “guilty” of anything as that’s a criminal (beyond reasonable doubt) finding.

The defendants will proceed to file their defences which one would expect won’t simply be a bare denial but will provide a different version / perspective.

Then a judge will proceed to hear evidence and consider the reliability and credibility of what each witness recalls happening.

Everyone is entitled to defend a civil claim like this - just as people are entitled to a presumption of innocence in the criminal courts

It’s no longer speculation as to what Rioli and co maybe accusing the HFC and coaches off. How ever you are right it has not been tested in court yet.

Will look forward to HFC and the coaches truth in response. Only heard from one side so far really.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Yeah right.
So the WFT have now morphed into an ambiguity.

Do yourself a favour and read the statement of claim before making stupid assertions.
It’s 88 pages so may be a challenge.

But at least save the WTFs until after you’re a bit more informed.

I've had a quick read of it yeah, if you have read it, try it with a dictionary open next time.
Fagan's nodding is referenced in this report, once, twice at best as far as I can see (this should not be interpreted by twats like yourself as a defence of, or condemnation of Fagan).
Keep digging, by all means. But here's a tip, try and dig up.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

1. The supposed incident involved the partner being abusive towards the player. Semantics are important here

2. The termination of a child - the partner was supposedly at risk herself and the player asked for advice

Mate - none of Burt, Clarko or Fagan are ****ing obstetricians or psychologists/counsellors so they shouldn’t have remotely gone there.

If this happened it is a disgusting overreach no matter what the circumstances or motivations were.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Mate - none of Burt, Clarko or Fagan are ****ing obstetricians or psychologists/counsellors so they shouldn’t have remotely gone there.

If this happened it is a disgusting overreach no matter what the circumstances or motivations were.

The club has psychologist and counsellors linked to the club now, players talk about there role in the media now.

I wonder if this was available to the coach’s and players in 2013.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

1. The supposed incident involved the partner being abusive towards the player. Semantics are important here

2. The termination of a child - the partner was supposedly at risk herself and the player asked for advice

You have had some abysmal posts in the past but you have truly outdone yourself with this one. The level of ignorance is unprecedented.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The club has psychologist and counsellors linked to the club now, players talk about there role in the media now.

I wonder if this was available to the coach’s and players in 2013.

If there were and if (big reminder to posters I’m saying IF) any of those 3 didn’t counsel the player to avail themselves of them - or arrange external help - then it is beyond negligent. Footy coaches with teaching backgrounds aren’t remotely equipped for those kinds of scenarios and should get the right help in.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

If there were and if (big reminder to posters I’m saying IF) any of those 3 didn’t counsel the player to avail themselves of them - or arrange external help - then it is beyond negligent. Footy coaches with teaching backgrounds aren’t remotely equipped for those kinds of scenarios and should get the right help in.

The question is does this make Clarko a racist? I am not convinced this makes Clarko racist. I feel he would have this kind of conversation with any of his players.

Sam Mitchell even wrote about an issues with Clarko, access to a mobile and his hospitalised new borns.

I do agree it is over stepping the mark though!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The question is does this make Clarko a racist? I am not convinced this makes Clarko racist. I feel he would have this kind of conversation with any of his players.

Sam Mitchell even wrote about an issues with Clarko, access to a mobile and his hospitalised new borns.

I do agree it is over stepping the mark though!

I speculated as much a few pages back. If the allegations were true, even partially, then I don’t think this is borne out of malignant racism. However it might possibly stem from a more patronising racial bias - i.e. ‘we need to get more hands on with these Indigneous boys because they can’t look after themselves’.

Or it’s possibly how any player would have been treated. That said, the allegations, including those verified by Burt himself, and other behaviour of his shows he’s a very odd and controlling cat and I’m glad he’s now Norf’s problem.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Fagan was Clarkson and Burt's boss. So him being there is him being involved and a decision maker in a meeting with an agenda to split up a player from his partner, advise an abortion and threaten his career.

Fagan needed to speak up during the meeting or prevent it from occuring when he heard about it. He also had an obligation to be aware of other incidents and make sure policies were in place and his direct reports followed them.

Just as Stuart Fox, Andrew Newbold, Kennett and the board needed to show more governance.

Perhaps Fagan wasnt aware the appalling way this meeting allegedly went? Maybe he thought it was a relatively routine "care and concern" meeting with a listed player, albeit one with a pregnant partner. Ditto for the board, Newbold etc.
The three involved have all denied the allegations, so in this instance its Peterson's word against them.
Its a terrible situation, I want only the truth to be revealed and all parties can get some closure out of this.

 

[SammyC]

1. Clarkson and co were not exonerated by the Afl investigation. That narrative was false. The investigation was shut down as all parties came to the position that official legal channels were the best pathway to resolution. Here we are.

2. clarkson has questions to answer and if proven his coaching future is untenable.

3. if proven, the hfc is up for a bucketload of damages and rightfully so. The organisation allowed this to happen.

4. Regardless of whether can be proven, we as supporters were robbed of more cyril because he felt unsupported and unsafe. He wouldn’t go down this path unless he felt that way, whether unintentional, misguided or whatever. That makes me sad.