News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[MtGHawk]

1. Clarkson and co were not exonerated by the Afl investigation. That narrative was false. The investigation was shut down as all parties came to the position that official legal channels were the best pathway to resolution. Here we are.

2. clarkson has questions to answer and if proven his coaching future is untenable.

3. if proven, the hfc is up for a bucketload of damages and rightfully so. The organisation allowed this to happen.

4. Regardless of whether can be proven, we as supporters were robbed of more cyril because he felt unsupported and unsafe. He wouldn’t go down this path unless he felt that way, whether unintentional, misguided or whatever. That makes me sad.

Great post. HFC need to get on top of this tomorrow. Hold a press conference and firmly apologise and talk compensation.

 

[Hawkers Hero]

As a complete legal novice here, do the players just have to show the claims happened or do they need to also prove they were racially based?

 

[Harper_Hawk]

The HFC board at that time, if they knew what was said to the players. Should have pulled Clarkson, Fagan and Burt in and told them this is inappropriate and requested that they make a full apology to the players. If what was said and how it was said is proven true in court. If so, then the three above and I’m sorry to say HFC are liable and a hard lesson for the club to learn that providing a safe working environment is paramount as an organisation.


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[DogDaySonny]

You truly are an idiot.
Have you forgotten already that you said - “if he nodded - WTF” ??

Jeez, I wish the dumb bigoted nonsense on this side would stop.

Heh. People who disagree with you in good faith are dumb and bigoted. Is this true in all circumstances or just this one?

It is exactly this sort of calm and reasonable discourse that is need to bring the parties together.

 

[DogDaySonny]

It's in there

Then I’m surprised that hasn’t headlined the reporting.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Great post. HFC need to get on top of this tomorrow. Hold a press conference and firmly apologise and talk compensation.

There's nothing new in here that the club hasn't been aware of for a long time. The club don't necessarily believe all of what's been accused is exactly as it's been presented.

It's a terrible terrible situation, but we should all be glad we will get to now hear the club's and coaches defence, get to the bottom of what happened and create a better pathway for our Indigenous players.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Then I’m surprised that hasn’t headlined the reporting.

Why? I’m fairly certain that allegations of directing a player to tell his partner to seek a termination of pregnancy will draw more attention and (rightly) garner more reaction than a joke about jeans.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Why? I’m fairly certain that allegations of directing a player to tell his partner to seek a termination of pregnancy will draw more attention and (rightly) garner more reaction than a joke about jeans.

What are you going to do if the court finds no case to answer?

 

[Billyc]

As a complete legal novice here, do the players just have to show the claims happened or do they need to also prove they were racially based?

There are two claims: a discrimination claim and a negligence claim. The discrimination claim needs to prove they were discriminated against on the basis of their race. Strictly speaking the negligence claim does not as it could be found that certain events happened which were a breach of the employer's duty of care but were not racially motivated. However, the way the statement of claim has been drafted, the negligence claim is also almost entirely premised on the acts being racist and discriminatory.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

What are you going to do if the court finds no case to answer?

What do you think? You clearly think I’ve got a foregone conclusion in mind when my posts through this thread consistently show otherwise. The only definitive judgement I’ve made is that Clarko is an odd character with a controlling nature but that’s based on more than these allegations. I’ve never sided definitively on one side or the other. Unlike you though I’ll answer the question posed to me - I’ll respect the judicial outcome and be sad about the human toll on all sides.

So, rather than deflect - do something simple and answer my question. Did you really think the press was going to focus on a comment on torn jeans given the other serious allegations made?

 

[brad sue well]

Also, just to make mention of it because it hasn’t been mentioned here, the applicants have gotten themselves some of the very best lawyers for this type of case in Peter Seidel and Leon Zwier.

Connection has been long lasting.

 

[Rhayader]

Yes - trial documents which contain allegations.

The (civil) standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities and no one will be found “guilty” of anything as that’s a criminal (beyond reasonable doubt) finding.

The defendants will proceed to file their defences which one would expect won’t simply be a bare denial but will provide a different version / perspective.

Then a judge will proceed to hear evidence and consider the reliability and credibility of what each witness recalls happening.

Everyone is entitled to defend a civil claim like this - just as people are entitled to a presumption of innocence in the criminal courts

Correct, and it will be reported as it happens.

 

[Mississippi]

Heh. People who disagree with you in good faith are dumb and bigoted. Is this true in all circumstances or just this one?

It is exactly this sort of calm and reasonable discourse that is need to bring the parties together.

No just this one, mate.
Did you read his juvenile WTF post?
It’s not a matter of disagreeing with me at all.
Just a silly ill informed post - that’s why I said read the statement of claim and inform yourself.
If you want a calm discourse, you get informed and you don’t write bigoted WTF crap.

 

[brad sue well]

1. The supposed incident involved the partner being abusive towards the player. Semantics are important here

2. The termination of a child - the partner was supposedly at risk herself and the player asked for advice

Not for a coaches then.

You have a ex-police as an ILO in the next office.

 

[DogDaySonny]

What do you think? You clearly think I’ve got a foregone conclusion in mind when my posts through this thread consistently show otherwise. The only definitive judgement I’ve made is that Clarko is an odd character with a controlling nature but that’s based on more than these allegations. I’ve never sided definitively on one side or the other. Unlike you though I’ll answer the question posed to me - I’ll respect the judicial outcome and be sad about the human toll on all sides.

So, rather than deflect - do something simple and answer my question. Did you really think the press was going to focus on a comment on torn jeans given the other serious allegations made?

Heh. Ok, yes, being it has Kennett and has been in the press before. Yes i expected them to highlight this and then get him to bite for a headline driving quote or two. The fact that you didn't expect this behaviour is more surprising than me expecting it.

 

[HedgeFund]

As a complete legal novice here, do the players just have to show the claims happened or do they need to also prove they were racially based?

To an extent - both.

 

[brad sue well]

The club has psychologist and counsellors linked to the club now, players talk about there role in the media now.

I wonder if this was available to the coach’s and players in 2013.

Yes, and Clarkson and Fagan and Burt employed a specialist Indigenous worker, he is part of this court action.

Players choose the highest default insurer for injuries, allied health may also be an option. AFLPA, decent manager, Indigenous community health service… options.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Heh. Ok, yes, being it has Kennett and has been in the press before. Yes i expected them to highlight this and then get him to bite for a headline driving quote or two. The fact that you didn't expect this behaviour is more surprising than me expecting it.

And so you instead insinuated I had an agenda to push rather than just answer a straight question. Odd.

And - as horrendous as journalism can be in this country, no I don’t think torn jeans would dominate coverage when the termination advice cliams are front and centre. This has constantly been the most outrage inducing element of the story and it will push outrage from those who are pro choice as much as those who very much aren’t pro choice.

So, no, given the long term coverage of this it’s not remotely surprising that the press hasn’t focused on the torn jeans comment and it’s even less surprising that it’s not a substantial element of the statement of claims.

 

[Mississippi]

Can you explain why you think it is regrettable. It also went to a further independent arbitration and there was no resolution.

It’s regrettable because it’s ended up in heavy duty Federal Court litigation - which will go on for many months and subject the club to ongoing media scrutiny.
I think I said 12 months ago that this is where it would be heading.

It’s regrettable because it should have been settled in mediation.

 

[brad sue well]

The HFC board at that time, if they knew what was said to the players. Should have pulled Clarkson, Fagan and Burt in and told them this is inappropriate and requested that they make a full apology to the players. If what was said and how it was said is proven true in court. If so, then the three above and I’m sorry to say HFC are liable and a hard lesson for the club to learn that providing a safe working environment is paramount as an organisation.


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It would be good to have Indigenous representation on Boards asap. CFC shows that presence isn’t perfect but it helps. We are talking football clubs here, change the constitution. But it’s legal, but it’s harmful not to.

 

[kazzooka]

Perhaps Fagan wasnt aware the appalling way this meeting allegedly went? Maybe he thought it was a relatively routine "care and concern" meeting with a listed player, albeit one with a pregnant partner. Ditto for the board, Newbold etc.
The three involved have all denied the allegations, so in this instance its Peterson's word against them.
Its a terrible situation, I want only the truth to be revealed and all parties can get some closure out of this.

How could he not be aware? he was in the room.

 

[kazzooka]

1. The supposed incident involved the partner being abusive towards the player. Semantics are important here

2. The termination of a child - the partner was supposedly at risk herself and the player asked for advice

And then 8 years later Clarkson pushing said child against the wall by the neck?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

And then 8 years later Clarkson pushing said child against the wall by the neck?

Sorry, what?

 

[rjslcM]

Sorry, what?

Page 21

70 c

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/120048/2024-07-26_Statement-of-Claim.pdf

 

[kazzooka]

Sorry, what?

Have you read the statement of claim? Page 21

"In or about July 2019:
(a) Mr Peterson took his young family members – his stepson, his two sons, and
Ms Rotumah’s younger brother – to Hawthorn’s training facilities;
(b) while there, they incidentally met Mr Clarkson;
(c) Mr Clarkson pinned Mr Peterson’s son LP up against the wall with his forearm
on LP’s chest and his hand gripping LP’s shirt."

LP is the boy Clarkson, Burt and Fagan suggested be aborted.