NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Back One Out]

If they’re unhappy it’s because they couldn’t control it.

Don't you hate it when egotistical overlords try to control the narrative instead of letting people speak freely?

​

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Don't you hate it when egotistical overlords try to control the narrative instead of letting people speak freely?

​

Sook it up because I won’t let casual racism exist on our board, eh Chewy.

 

[Ry009]

I know the bar is pretty low for the main board, and I know it's hard to have nuanced and sensible discussion with people with preconceived notions/bias/experiences. Especially on board where supporters of different teams mix.

But it's a shame that discussion hasn't risen up to higher standard than your typical Twitter shit fight.

 

[myblueroan]

I know the bar is pretty low for the main board, and I know it's hard to have nuanced and sensible discussion with people with preconceived notions/bias/experiences. Especially on board where supporters of different teams mix.

But it's a shame that discussion hasn't risen up to higher standard than your typical Twitter s**t fight.

It's had it's moments.
Some thoughtful reflections from a few.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Mate it will play out only one way.

The AFL will protect its brand and assets by calling out the Hawks for a range of stuff, have a fallout not valuable to them (the fitness guy at the school) and life will go on.

They’re a business and that’s what they do. But Clarko and Fagan and all of us will be better for the Hawks report. Need more of this.

You’re so accurate it’s not funny

 

[Ry009]

It's had it's moments.
Some thoughtful reflections from a few.

Too few unfortunately.

 

[SunshineBoy]

People keep saying we just need to wait for Clarko’s side of the story. Well, how long does it take for him to get his story together? Besides a generic denial, he doesn’t actually seem in a rush to give his side of the story. But the longer he waits, the more white knights seem to come out in his defence.

Well we are still waiting for the truth to come from Hird

 

[jenny61_99]

Well said

The only caveat on this imo is the abortion aspect. If any hawthorn person said “you need to get an abortion” that’s beyond cultural awareness etc and is unforgivable.

Imo that’s why this is so explosive. As I mentioned above, the separation aspect was reported in May and did not get one follow up article or media discussion.

Perhaps the difference here is that HFC suggested, or strongly encouraged, the players partner to return to Darwin, as opposed to them telling the other player he was moving in with a coach from that day, changing his SIM to make it difficult for family to contact him? Two very different scenarios.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Casual racism, eh?

Anything to make yourself feel better and look good to other people

I don't think you're a bad guy, SYL. I just think you're not that smart.

Yeah, people say that they can’t trust the report because it’s written by a First Nations person, and that they’ll wait for someone else to write a review, that’s a nice little place for racists to hide.

That’s fine though, I’ve read enough of your long winded posts over the years to know that you’re just a nuffie with self-appointed intellect.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Seems hypocritical to me for certain Essendon fans to moan about how fans of other clubs treated them during their PEDs scandal and then exhibit the exact same type of behaviour when another club finds itself embroiled in a self-created scandal & media shitstorm.

You would think these people would know better and show some self-restraint. Especially as this particular story is not about a club trying to flout the rules & gain an illegitimate advantage over rival clubs. There is nothing really for anyone to gloat about or revel in. I don't think anyone's medals or premiership points are going to be stripped. It's all pretty sad, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong. I couldn't give a flying f**k what people post on here. Knock yourselves out. Go your hardest.
I just think the rubbery principles & hypocrisy of certain Essendon fans is hilarious.

well i have said before in this thread but to me this is above tribalism. though m not sure how Hawthorns is any more self created than Essendon's?

what hawthorns coaches did is far worse than what Essendon did, and as such is a much more sensitive topic as as such the boots are not going in deeper.

 

[JackOutback]

So every player in the 70’s who punched someone was a s**t person. Mate that was the sport those days. His verbal abuse of an amateur umpire wasn’t over a poor decision there was more to that story, but I’m getting into it now. Reporters are scum so good on him I’m for sticking it to them for making up trash. If that’s his rap sheet vs hundreds of hours of community service, rebuilding fences for effected bushfire families, helping young footballers become the best they could be, creating a generation of coaches under him that have succeeded across a multitude of clubs and then having every single player including Burgoyne come out and say the opposite of your view, then I’m glad you don’t have a job as a judge, police officer, or people manager. We all make mistakes in our life, but until I know that he did do these things I’ll judge him on what I’ve seen thank you.

Every single player? I can think of three that don’t support that view.

 

[Rob]

Why exactly is the AFL unhappy with how we commissioned this report?

To me, that screams, “you should have tried to cover this up better”

It's a report that (apparently) contains only allegations, many seemingly by 2nd hand witnesses, with no attempt to verify the claims made.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that perhaps further investigation should have been done before the report was published, especially if it turns out that some or all of the claims are false.

 

[Back One Out]

Yeah, people say that they can’t trust the report because it’s written by a First Nations person, and that they’ll wait for someone else to write a review, that’s a nice little place for racists to hide.

That’s fine though, I’ve read enough of your long winded posts over the years to know that you’re just a nuffie with self-appointed intellect.

Don't be so shifty & dishonest. I see what you're what you're doing. Stop trying to cast your aspersions of racism on me.
I offered no personal opinion about the authors of the report. We both know HawkNuffie387 posted that and you called them racist.

I simply remarked that implicit bias was integral to the theories of systemic racism & white privilege.
That maybe it was a double standard for you to call HawkNuffie387 racist for harbouring similar doubts about implicit bias in this instance.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Don't be so shifty & dishonest. I see what you're what you're doing. Stop trying to cast your aspersions of racism on me.
I offered no personal opinion about the authors of the report. We both know HawkNuffie387 posted that and you called them racist.

I simply remarked that implicit bias was integral to leftists' theories on systemic racism & white privilege.
That maybe it was a double standard for you to call HawkNuffie387 racist for harbouring similar doubts about implicit bias in this instance.

I never called them racist, I did however call out how that line of thinking would appeal to racists.

Nice use of the word “leftists” too, what’s next “woke” or any other Fox News catch cry’s?

 

[gouki88]

I never called them racist, I did however call out how that line of thinking would appeal to racists.

Nice use of the word “leftists” too, what’s next “woke” or any other Fox News catch cry’s?

Snowflake!

 

[Corleone]

Seems hypocritical to me for certain Essendon fans to moan about how fans of other clubs treated them during their PEDs scandal and then exhibit the exact same type of behaviour when another club finds itself embroiled in a self-created scandal & media shitstorm.

You would think these people would know better and show some self-restraint. Especially as this particular story is not about a club trying to flout the rules & gain an illegitimate advantage over rival clubs. There is nothing really for anyone to gloat about or revel in. I don't think anyone's medals or premiership points are going to be stripped. It's all pretty sad, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong. I couldn't give a flying f**k what people post on here. Knock yourselves out. Go your hardest.
I just think the rubbery principles & hypocrisy of certain Essendon fans is hilarious.

It's not a long bow to draw that Hawthorn would have benefited on-field from this abuse, and if true it's not "flouting the rules" it's systematic racial abuse through coercive control.

There's actually multiple layers to the alleged abuse, which include attempting to gain a competitive advantage by driving the accused to perform better on field which in turn would benefit the accused financially (more success = more money and prestige), who can tell the ripple effects this kind of alleged culture would have on other players.

I personally do not believe Hawthorn will be punished at all for this, even if the allegations are found to be true, but do not attempt to diminish the depth of these accusations as it demeans the alleged victims.

 

[Forward Press]

It's a report that (apparently) contains only allegations, many seemingly by 2nd hand witnesses, with no attempt to verify the claims made.

Far from sharing his joy, Ian alleges that a group of coaches, including Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan, ushered him into an office, where he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated, "get rid" of his partner and move into the home of an assistant coach.

"It was so intimidating, confusing and upsetting," Ian says.

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards.

He felt he had no choice. "He told me to kill my unborn kid."

Testimony directly from one of the alleged victims - it is also puzzling you write off the players partners as '2nd hand witnesses' when all of them were directly involved in what was alleged.

Kylie still has emails and notes describing what followed: just after 1.10pm that day, a convoy of cars arrived out the front of her and Zac's home.

In a string of increasingly panicked emails, Kylie sought explanations from Hawthorn officials, or even confirmation that her partner was safe. She was filled with anxiety and stress.

Additional evidence which is a selection of what the journalist undoubtedly has verified and corroborated before running the article.

It is clear you have not read the entirety of Russell Jackson's investigative piece.

 

[Zevon]

I know the bar is pretty low for the main board, and I know it's hard to have nuanced and sensible discussion with people with preconceived notions/bias/experiences. Especially on board where supporters of different teams mix.

But it's a shame that discussion hasn't risen up to higher standard than your typical Twitter s**t fight.

Respectfully disagree here. Granted there has been some absolute rubbish posted (as there has been anywhere this issue is being discussed) but as somebody who has read pretty much every page of this thread I can say the standard has been a great deal better here than somewhere like Twitter.

Particularly early on when discussion was at its most frenzied, the overwhelming majority on the thread were horrified by the allegations that have been made and were quite forthright in calling out (or, even better, reporting) the few posters that were spouting racist rubbish.

 

[RJK Tiger]

It’s my understanding the ABC report was done independently of Hawthorns report so has many accusations to come that are not related at all to info Hawthorn have gathered. So the ABC report is not just a report of a report at all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

lol -what?

Its a journalistic article on the report which Hawthorn commissioned Phil Egan's consulting company to do

Honestly, how hard is this for some people to understand. Have people actually READ the whole article by the ABC?

So many people wanting to sit and fart around about the pointless details and missing the giant picture floating in their face

 

[Back One Out]

I never called them racist, I did however call out how that line of thinking would appeal to racists.

Nice use of the word “leftists” too, what’s next “woke” or any other Fox News catch cry’s?

I removed "leftists" from my post. But not quick enough...
It has no bearing on the point I made and just provides you with cover to dodge the issue* and try to smear me as a RWNJ.

You are very predictable.

*The issue was you stifling people's discussion with bullshiit arguments about people providing cover for racists (among other things)

 

[RJK Tiger]

Testimony directly from one of the alleged victims - it is also puzzling you write off the players partners as '2nd hand witnesses' when all of them were directly involved in what was alleged.





Additional evidence which is a selection of what the journalist undoubtedly has verified and corroborated before running the article.

It is clear you have not read the entirety of Russell Jackson's investigative piece.

Exactly. If the babies died inside their body - then that is about as non "second hand" you can get.

People are seriously gross.

For all those people going "it shouldn't be about race". Of course this is about race. The entire report is about places of aboriginal race feeling victimised.

Seriously, the next person who says "what about white kids" should get a ban - its NOT what this story is about. Trying to turn it about as one of the most pathetic narratives that exist..... "the poor white man" ..... is ****ing gross. If the story came out about white players from Hawthorn, we would be dealing with that reality.

But its not. Its purely about the aboriginal players.

Stick to the data we have and stop speculating on the rest

 

[Rob]

Testimony directly from one of the alleged victims - it is also puzzling you write off the players partners as '2nd hand witnesses' when all of them were directly involved in what was alleged.

lol, I didn't write them off at all, I just described them as as exactly what they are - 2nd hand witnesses. It is an indisputable fact. I said nothing of their credibility.

 

[RJK Tiger]

lol, I didn't write them off at all, I just described them as as exactly what they are - 2nd hand witnesses. It is an indisputable fact. I said nothing of their credibility.

How are they 2nd hand witnessess?

ITs the players and their wives, who carried the babies for ****s sake

Perhaps your freudian suggesting that the women involved are 2nd class citizens, as i have NFI how you could think the women who were the partners and equally the victims in this crap as "2nd hand witnesses".

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Don't be so shifty & dishonest. I see what you're what you're doing. Stop trying to cast your aspersions of racism on me.
I offered no personal opinion about the authors of the report. We both know HawkNuffie387 posted that and you called them racist.

I simply remarked that implicit bias was integral to the theories of systemic racism & white privilege.
That maybe it was a double standard for you to call HawkNuffie387 racist for harbouring similar doubts about implicit bias in this instance.

Outed yourself right there.

 

[Back One Out]

It's not a long bow to draw that Hawthorn would have benefited on-field from this abuse

Sorry mate. You lost me here.