NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Ginnivans Island]

More unhinged conspiracy thinking that started from your very first post. So it’s obviously an alt you’re running. The question now is; which Hawthorn or North supporter you are.

No alt, I just haven’t been manipulated into a frothing mob like most of you have.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

He literally offered them more time...

You misunderstand the scenario.

This is not a gentle conversation over crumpets and tea.

If you are on the receiving end of a voicemail like that, you instantly know the the insatiable racism maelstrom is about to descend on you, and that everything that follows will be played out in public.

I wouldn’t say a word to the journalist, not being able to trust that anything I say will be reported accurately.

 

[PrinceCharles]

You misunderstand the scenario.

This is not a gentle conversation over crumpets and tea.

If you are on the receiving end of a voicemail like that, you instantly know the the insatiable racism maelstrom is about to descend on you, and that everything that follows will be played out in public.

I wouldn’t say a word to the journalist, not being able to trust that anything I say will be reported accurately.

Sounds like you have some experience

 

[EconomicDecline]

Wheres my misunderstanding of the report in my post, thats exactly how it went. I have no doubt HFC thought they would do the report as a PR piece to look proactive over the very public spat with Rioli and generally lots of supporters unhappy with Kennett and the way the club looked over Rioli's exit. They probably thought they'd hear some historic complaints and grievances that they could then wave around to members and the public and say look how progressive we are as a club and how they'd put in place better welfare, etc, etc. Instead they get back a hand grenade alleging human rights abuse and demanding immediate compensation be paid to numerous victims. I can just imagine the board meeting after they get back that draft report haha. No doubt legal advice would have told them do not release the report without further investigation and interviewing Clarkson and other accused to allow them to respond. I suspect HFC had no real appetite at that point to commission a follow up investigation of it ex employees and prior favorite sons Clarkson, Fagan and Burt (imagine how that would have gone down) so they tossed it over to the AFL to handle as all too hard. Someone at that point wasnt happy with that as an outcome and has promptly leaked it to Jackson. Not too hard to guess who i would suggest.

Your bloody statement

No organisation in its right mind would put out a report which makes allegations of human rights abuses against individuals who havent been interviewed as part of the investigation or given any notice of or opportunity to respond to any of the allegations

The report was never intended to be all encompassing like you seem to keep insisting.

From Russell Jackson’s article

Hawthorn commissioned a review to look into how First Nations players were treated at the club, similar to the Collingwood 'Do Better' review

The report was exactly as I framed it. To look at perception of treatment from indigenous players point of view only. The serious elements brought up were handed to over to the AFL integrity commission to investigate.

My assumption would be that the players in question feared anything the AFL uncovered might be buried or worse and so the players were happy to speak to a journalist who had sought them out in order for their voice to be heard.

 

[Bombermania]

Luke Hodge has one of the greatest footy minds in modern AFL history, one of the most decorated captains of all time. Nothing can take away from his onfield leadership and results.

The fact that a lot of these happening occur during his time as captain and his statement today does ask the question, where was the Captain in all of this? In 2013 a player 'allegedly' tells his teammates he's having a kid, has an engagement party to occur during the week. Next minute he's cancelled the engagement party, is living with one of the coaches and reportedly has a deterioration in his mental health. I find it surprising that the club captain is none the wiser. Was there any 'hey mate bit of a hectic week is everything ok?'

Where was the support for Cyril. I would have thought that the club captain is often a conduit between the coaches and the playing group and perhaps to a lessor extent the administration and the playing group. Why did players not feel comfortable going to the skipper?

Why has a players partner contacted so many different people at the club but not the club captain. Where is the support for former indigenous teammates now? Has Hodge reached out to his former teammates or has he chosen loyalties already? Because if he's done that now it should come as no surprise that the players did not come to him in his capacity as captain.

North Melbourne find themselves in a position where they maybe choosing between perceived chance of onfield success or doing what is right in light of a major controversy. This has happened once before at North. They chose to step away from the best player in the comp and arguably the GOAT in Carey. I admire Glenn Archer to this day for the way he conducted himself throughout and North Melbourne for the way they conducted themselves. I admire the way Jason McCartney was given every chance to play just one last game. North haven't won a flag since the King left, they may not win one for another 30yrs, but they have stood for something.

And because of that they didn't fold, they didn't get relocated, they got themselves out of a hole off field.. because they stood for something. On field success comes and goes in varying degrees. Equalization through the draft and salary cap makes sure of that. Clarko may get you a few extra wins in the short term but is it really worth being on the wrong side of this over?

Hodge is either aloof or is the sort of person that is not able or willing to find fault in his mates and doesn't question the company line.

 

[jj15]

Why do you keep posting this? People have answered you already.

I have missed them then? why? Because I want to know.
So can you answer me?

 

[JDavey]

If you are on the receiving end of a voicemail like that, you instantly know the the insatiable racism maelstrom is about to descend on you, and that everything that follows will be played out in public.

Speaking from experience?

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

1. You have had several aboriginal players/ex players saying it's true despite having no relationship with the alleged parties. Eddie Betts even said he will "always believe a brother." Is that ok?

2. Burgoyne was an indigenous leader not just at hawthorn, but in the AFL. The fact he didn't know is pretty telling that there is a fair bit of smoke and mirrors coming from the media about this story.

The rebuttal to your second point is in your second point. Burgoyne was a leader at Hawthorne. The players who have shared their experiences very likely felt confused, alone and like they would not be believed by people in power at Hawthorne. Hodge’s Facebook post is pretty good evidence that this would have been the case. Just because Burgoyne is also aboriginal doesn’t mean the players would automatically trust him with something so sensitive.

More importantly, people who experience trauma very frequently don’t tell people they know and trust dearly - trauma can make people feel like they have no idea who to trust and that there is something wrong with themselves.

You post is saying that a black man didn’t tell another black man something, and therefore he is making it up. I call bs.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I have missed them then? why? Because I want to know.
So can you answer me?

You've asked 3-4 times... Just go back to your previous posts and see the replies.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

Sounds like you have some experience

At what?

 

[jj15]

You've asked 3-4 times... Just go back to your previous posts and see the replies.

No one has clicked reply when they’ve responded then as it’s not on my feed?

 

[PrinceCharles]

No one has clicked reply when they’ve responded then as it’s not on my feed?

 

[Ginnivans Island]

The report was never intended to be all encompassing like you seem to keep insisting

That doesn’t mean what you think it does.

The document is a set of untested allegations masquerading as the output of an investigation. It contains recommendations to rectify issues that are as yet unproven.

Waiving it around as some sort of smoking gun fait accompli is juvenile.

 

[jj15]

View attachment 1523615

Cheers.

 

[nobbyiscool]

‘Distasteful’: AFL coach says Clarko ‘not in a great place’ amid ‘disheartening’ saga — FOX SPORTS Australia

Alastair Clarkson’s treatment has been labelled “incredibly disheartening” and a “bit distasteful” by fellow AFL coach Damien Hardwick amid growing support for the embattled ex-Hawks mentor.

apple.news

These morons need to headbutt some rocks before opening their stupid mouths.

 

[yeahmate]

Your bloody statement



The report was never intended to be all encompassing like you seem to keep insisting.

From Russell Jackson’s article



The report was exactly as I framed it. To look at perception of treatment from indigenous players point of view only. The serious elements brought up were handed to over to the AFL integrity commission to investigate.

My assumption would be that the players in question feared anything the AFL uncovered might be buried or worse and so the players were happy to speak to a journalist who had sought them out in order for their voice to be heard.

I think youre misunderstanding what Im saying. I know the report wasnt meant to be all encompassing at first and was given that limited scope. It was meant to be a PR piece. It certainly wasnt meant to result in allegations of human rights abuses and demands for compensation. No doubt as soon as the club got wind of its contents there was no way it wanted the report made public without first conducting a further detailed investigation and giving those accused a proper opportunity to put their side. The players wouldnt have known about any of this unless someone was feeding them what was happening in the process, I don't suspect it was the players talking to the press or they could have done that at any time in the years leading up to the report being commissioned.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

Speaking from experience?

Yeah, I’m actually Alistair Clarkson and I’m mad as hell.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

A bit of context here. Cleary is quoting Jeff Kennett at the Hawthorn B&F on allegations against the club.

Jeff Kennett channelling Eddie McGuire's 'this is a great day for the Collingwood Football Club' faux pas:

“The one thing the investigation showed, was we have a safe cultural workplace now. These are issues of the past…”

Jeff Kennett destroying all the good work of his Board in commissioning the Egan Report in the first place.

No Jeff, these are NOT issues of the past. Not for the people who have to keep living them...

So you see why a group like Hawks for Change exists. Sam Mitchell went out of his way at the Peter Crimmins Medal to talk up all of the community engagement the club has been doing (including a lot in the Indigenous space), the club puts together a lovely package showing all of the hard work done by the players with some great speeches from Sam Frost and Dylan Moore and then Jeff comes out and basically says "I wouldn't have done it unless I was forced" (always the politician and I hope other clubs see the danger in an ex-pollie being club president) and "Everything I've done is great" forgetting that it was his treatment of Cyril that started the ball rolling. The report noted that the current crop of Indigenous players feel supported and the club is doing some good work in the area (which is good) but also noted there was still room for improvement. So I hope the club doesn't rest on its laurels because there's still a long way to go.

Hopefully the incoming president and new members of the board don't follow Jeff's lead here.

 

[jenny61_99]

Why was she contacting the club and not her partner? Seems wierd

Because they changed his SIM?

 

[jj15]

When was Clarksons last payment from Hawks due? Any chance it gets withheld?

 

[rado]

Russell Jackson did not see the report - he conducted his own interviews with the players and their families. If he was somehow bound to sit on his information whilst waiting for the HFC report to be made public - well, he could have been waiting forever.

And that is the ultimate in unfairness.

Never said Jackson saw the report, I said he cherry picked content via allegations made within it. His story was not based on that review and did not quote its contents.

His reporting was based entirely on selected interviews conducted with primary sources after he was alerted to the story.

Now we have an investigation by the AFL on the full report commissioned by the HFC and we have trial by the media on selected allegations within the review, a story not based on the review, with quotes not based on the review.

Jackson has taken the high ground and ‘gone postal’, however as I’ve said earlier ……… I can’t imagine for a moment indigenous consultant and author of the HFC Report Phil Egan would not push for an environment to hold all accountable, further evidenced by him also wanting a full audit of ALL clubs.

 

[yeahmate]

Because they changed his SIM?

You got kids jenny? Ever tried to stop them contacting their girlfriends/boyfriends if they really want to see each other? Feels to me there could be a bit more to this particular story at least, were not talking about pre-teens they sound like they were at least 21 year old adults so will reserve judgment until a bit more info comes out about this one

 

[jenny61_99]

Clarko: whatever it takes

We know how well that slogan ends up, don’t we?

 

[jj15]

You got kids jenny? Ever tried to stop them contacting their girlfriends/boyfriends if they really want to see each other? Feels to me there could be a bit more to this particular story at least, were not talking about pre-teens they sound like they were at least 21 year old adults so will reserve judgment until a bit more info comes out about this one

Yer the change of sim prevented it all. They also must of taken his car keys, computer access, envelopes, carrier pigeons, fax machine and every other ability to communicate.
That or he just didn’t want to.

 

[yeahmate]

Never said Jackson saw the report, I said he cherry picked content via allegations made within it. His story was not based on that review and did not quote its contents.

His reporting was based entirely on selected interviews conducted with primary sources after he was alerted to the story.

Now we have an investigation by the AFL on the full report commissioned by the HFC and we have trial by the media on selected allegations within the review, a story not based on the review, with quotes not based on the review.

Jackson has taken the high ground and ‘gone postal’, however as I’ve said earlier ……… I can’t imagine for a moment indigenous consultant and author of the HFC Report Phil Egan would not push for an environment to hold all accountable, further evidenced by him also wanting a full audit of ALL clubs.

You really think Jackson hadnt seen the report?