Moved Thread Hawthorn "sucking Tasmania dry" ... calls for them to GTFO

[Kane McGoodwin]

Did you factor in that the Vic clubs were buying the AFL a billion dollar stadium at the time?
Or that that distribution included money forwarded to clubs from things like AFL memberships (which inevitably mean the Vic clubs get more...even after the AFL takes it's slice of that revenue).

You are in denial if you think some Victorian teams aren't more reliant on higher AFL distributions than others & WA/SA clubs... no matter how you want to spin your argument.

My discussion is about long term viability...

 

[krisholio14]

Average 2016 AFL distribution per state
- WA $11.1m (freo $10.6m, wce $11.7m)
- SA $11.9m (ade $10.6m, port $13.2m)
- Vic $12.3m (Gee $10.8m, North $15m)
- NSW $17m (Syd $12.5m & gws $21.5m)
- QLD $17.3m (Bris $17.5m, gc $17.2m)

The expansion states NSW & Queensland, the AFL are investing in to expand their market share.

There is a big gap in the revenue being distributed between the stronger & weaker Victorian clubs, so the question is whether a Tassie team would be more viable in the lounge term than the 10th Victorian team, as well as further expanding a national competition.

That has been the question for quite some time now, and I'd suggest that if it was clear cut that Tassie was more viable than the 10th Vic team (or even the second teams in NSW and Qld), there would be a full time team in Tassie already.

 

[Furn2]

Wasn't a problem for other footy expansion states WA & SA to embrace their new AFL team, so history doesn't support your hypothesis!

How many of those supported VFL teams as there only side for generations ?

 

[krisholio14]

In WA & SA it didn't matter if a significant proportion stayed with their VFL/SANFL/WAFL team, because the market was big enough that if they 'only' got 50% on side, that was more than enough.

With Tas, they NEED close to 100%, immediately, or they just don't have a big enough market to support a club and Tasmanians have been following Vic football for a lot longer that people in WA & SA ever did.





You might want to check your numbers there. The optimistic estimates for a Tas club have it with about the same revenue as the smaller Vic clubs which doesn't really stack up for the AFL when you consider that booting an existing club will mean a significant portion of their fans will walk away from the game (estimates of Fitzroy were that around 1 in 3 abandoned the game entirely). Vic clubs also contribute a lot more to the AFL's bottom line than a Tas club ever would (TV, AFL members, Docklands...).

The AFL got it wrong with Port and put the club on the brink. That alone should sound warning bells for a Tassie team in the AFL. The other thing is Fitzroy didn't get pushed out of the comp because of debt, it was because they lacked a supporter base. Those that have turned their back on the game were a drop in the ocean to the AFL.

 

[Snake_Baker]

That has been the question for quite some time now, and I'd suggest that if it was clear cut that Tassie was more viable than the 10th Vic team (or even the second teams in NSW and Qld), there would be a full time team in Tassie already.

It's nowhere near as simple as Kanes analysis.

For example, this:

How many of those supported VFL teams as there only side for generations ?

Has to be taken in to account.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That has been the question for quite some time now, and I'd suggest that if it was clear cut that Tassie was more viable than the 10th Vic team (or even the second teams in NSW and Qld), there would be a full time team in Tassie already.

Interesting that for a competition started from scratch, the big bash put 2 teams in NSW & Vic, with 1 team in SA, WA, Qld & Tassie. Ie. 1 in 8 teams from Tassie. Cricket is different, because all states are traditional cricket states.

However, if an AFL competition was started from scratch there would be 1 in 18 teams for Tassie, particularly when 2 of the states are not traditional footy states.... & there wouldn't be more than half the teams in Victoria.

 

[fnerd]

Just secede then you massive sook

Weve tried numnuts ,we actually voted for it....but alas it was the eastern state dominated federal government that wouldnt acknowledge it,go figure

Anyway my post wasnt in relation to that,it was in the hypocrisy of old mate from tassies state government

 

[Snake_Baker]

Weve tried numnuts ,we actually voted for it....but alas it was the eastern state dominated federal government that wouldnt acknowledge it,go figure

A federal referendum is required to dissolve a federal constitutional arrangement..

 

[fnerd]

A federal referendum is required to dissolve a federal constitutional arrangement..

Not sure why im bothering on this as it was not the point of my reply but the peanut carlton supporter suggested" why dont you just secede", i casually mentioned that we d actually tried but in fact where unable to,namely due to the reason you stated

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Hmmmm ,oh the irony or is that cheek?.....bit like how WA gst money goes into propping up silvertailed, no industry allowed welfare state Tassie and we receive nothing back hey mr Cheek?

Maybe West Aussies should have got behind Brendon Grylls in the state election then.

 

[magpienato]

If that's the case why didn't they do it when they showed a much greater desire to create a club on the Gold Coast?

You're engaging in pure fantasy. The world doesn't work like that.

Because it was either try ship the rotting carcass of North Melbourne to Gold Coast or make a new team there. They had another option on the table and so weren't as inclined to show force to North Melbourne. Now we have hit the 18 team limit and the only thing holding the AFL from becoming an Australia-wide league is North Melbourne. The AFL and Tasmania have offered a King's ransom to have North come over, such money and opportunity some teams would kill for.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

And Alcoa

and International Harvester and Pilkingtons......

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Mate is isn't even just about crowds (which i have my doubts about).

Where are the supporters going to come from? I really think they would struggle to get loyal supporters and members to support a Tassie team.

Supporters seem to have shown up in Canberra over the years no matter who is playing.

 

[fnerd]

Maybe West Aussies should have got behind Brendon Grylls in the state election then.

Perhaps they should have,
still doesnt alter the hypocrisy of a tassie politician complaining about a so called silvertail mainland entity sucking his state dry while virtually his entire" conservation" states income is derived from the rest of mainland (not just wa)Australia

 

[Hawkk]

I'm Tasmanian -want our money spent else where

Cool.

As a Hawthorn member I would prefer that the money that we contribute to AFL equalisation (cough luxury / equalisation taxes) is not wasted on lost causes like the Saints

Please and thanks

 

[Snake_Baker]

Because it was either try ship the rotting carcass of North Melbourne to Gold Coast or make a new team there. They had another option on the table and so weren't as inclined to show force to North Melbourne. Now we have hit the 18 team limit and the only thing holding the AFL from becoming an Australia-wide league is North Melbourne. The AFL and Tasmania have offered a King's ransom to have North come over, such money and opportunity some teams would kill for.

Collingwood are welcome to it.

 

[The_Reaper]

Tell me were you also whining about the feds redirecting money before the mining boom when WA was on the receiving end and NSW/Vic were paying for the infrastructure that made the mining boom possible?

You're welcome to start paying us back whenever you like...(unlike you, we've NEVER been on the plus side of that redistribution).

Over the past ten years Victoria has been a net receiver.

 

[Boxhead_31]

I don't think Tassie having a team is viable.

AFL is the major sport down here already so they will not be expanding in to a new market. We have a small population and of that small population most already have a team to support because it is a major code down here. How many of those fans are going to change teams and support the new Tassie team? I won't be, i assume most fans wouldn't as well.

Tassie has made if very clear they want a team but that doesn't mean it can happen now or any time soon.

They would be much better off to stop sponsoring any AFL club and saving that money to develop facilities for their own side so that when the time comes their case will be that hard to knock back the AFL will have no option other to give them a team.

 

[Snake_Baker]

They would be much better off to stop sponsoring any AFL club and saving that money to develop facilities for their own side so that when the time comes their case will be that hard to knock back the AFL will have no option other to give them a team.

You do know that Tasmania actually profits from these ventures, don't you?

Are you suggesting they would be better off making less money?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

But is uprooting a Melburnian team, which will mean a loss of supporters (some will follow other teams, but many will be loss) and placing it in Tasmania much of a net win to the AFL? Remember, the equation isn't "should the AFL expand to Melbourne or Tasmania".

My guess is it isn't. Tasmania is already a footy mad state and losing North would mean losing supporters from Melbourne at a time when Melbourne is booming and Tasmania isn't. And it's not just whether it is a net gain or loss, but also the opportunities North are passing up whilst staying in Melbourne, especially given their capacity to play smaller games in regional Victoria (not to mention Tasmania itself).

If Tasmania wants to play hardball, North will just shift to Ballarat.

Why Ballarat? Is there a history of people from Ballarat following North? I would have thought that clubs like St Kilda and Geelong would have bigger followings there.

I'm not saying that North will or should go but just looking at the fixture for this coming season, they have the following :

11 home games made up of 8 home games at Etihad and 3 at Blundstone Arena.

11 away games made up of 3 at Etihad, 2 at the MCG, 1 at each of the following Geelong, Adelaide, Perth, Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast.

In total they have 14 games in Victoria and 8 interstate.

8 games in Tassie either all in the same venue or split them between north and south.

9 games in Victoria (3 home and the rest away)

4 games elsewhere (1 in each of WA, SA, NSW and Qld)

 

[beema limapep]

Interesting that for a competition started from scratch, the big bash put 2 teams in NSW & Vic, with 1 team in SA, WA, Qld & Tassie. Ie. 1 in 8 teams from Tassie. Cricket is different, because all states are traditional cricket states.

However, if an AFL competition was started from scratch there would be 1 in 18 teams for Tassie, particularly when 2 of the states are not traditional footy states.... & there wouldn't be more than half the teams in Victoria.

Premier league
Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Hawthorn
Geelong
Adelaide
Port
WestCoast
Freo
Sydney
Brisbane
Tassie

Division 2
Stk,
North,
Bulldogs,
Melbourne,
Carlton.
Gc
West Sydney
Plus best 5 teams from the state leagues

Or something...

 

[Upgrayedd]

Tasmania is about 10% the population of Victorian, so no reason they couldn't get average support of a Victorian team, which would be better than the lower drawing teams.

So eveey tasmania stops supporting their own club?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I don't think Tassie having a team is viable.

AFL is the major sport down here already so they will not be expanding in to a new market. We have a small population and of that small population most already have a team to support because it is a major code down here. How many of those fans are going to change teams and support the new Tassie team? I won't be, i assume most fans wouldn't as well.

Tassie has made if very clear they want a team but that doesn't mean it can happen now or any time soon.

Plenty of people started or switched to supporting the "Tassie Hawks". Don't think it would be too hard to sway that fan base.

 

[Snake_Baker]

So eveey tasmania stops supporting their own club?

He knows what best for Tasmania. He's South Australian.

 

[Boxhead_31]

You do know that Tasmania actually profits from these ventures, don't you?

Are you suggesting they would be better off making less money?

Are you suggesting them subsidising Dingly and Arden St developments are helping them gain their own side?