Doss
Ass
- Aug 1, 2011
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You'll never see it, when the alternative for 'real journalists' is digging up stories that can topple entire governments and severely dent TNCs.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Heppell on 360
- Thread starter Demonic Ascent
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Just interested
Team Captain
- Aug 4, 2013
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I think you'll find that came from Paul Simmonson, who was contracted as ASADA's supposed lead investigator. He was one of the first on site in '13, and made a number of dumb statements (if the reports were/are correct).
The Project Cobia plan was authorised by Simmonson. Cobia was the ASADA investigation plan and it was informed by the ACC's Aperio report. It was prepared prior to the 'blackest day' presser convened by the gubmint & ACC.
To put not too fine a point on it, Cobia was riddled with errors, including errors in translation from Aperio. It wasn't difficult to glean, from Cobia and attributed statements, that Simmonson thought he had a superior take on anti-doping codes and drug approvals to those who actually write the laws and regulations. It was also apparent Simmonson considered his role above that of investigator, and included that of prosecutor (compounded by applying a standard of proof above that applicable in anti-doping matters). He must have missed the old "Law and Order" intro (..."Police who investigate the crimes and the prosecutors who prosecute the offenders")
From memory, Simmonson had just the one contract with ASADA. Ex-copper and rugbyist around NSW and the ACT. Had been around various sporting joints and people who had the whiff of dodgy.
Just interested
Team Captain
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There were a couple of 'real journalists' involved early doors. Cracked open important elements, too. They haven't dropped off completely and, if they can find corroborations to satisfy the 'real journalist' ethical standards, they'll be baaaark (note: I said 'corroborations').
Tis the way of the investigative journalist - some times they just have to be patient, and wait for things to crack. Once the cracks start to open, the real journalists are often the go to people. It's the cred thing. Think how they might have got hold of some of the important stuff early.
Yup, and have the 34 had any airtime with any that aren't accredited?
Just interested
Team Captain
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I don't make a habit of reading Acts (unless they are part of a play).
Whilst I know that protection of stupid people may well be written into Acts and other such government paraphernalia, I personally don't see how that abrogates personal responsibility. People just need to man up and accept theirs (IMO).
It doesn't abrogate personal responsibility, Jenny, it protects against the imbalance of power - that's the fundamental purpose.
It was never difficult to come to grips with the concept of players being both perpetrators and victims - perpetrators under the voluntarily signed anti-doping code, and victims under everyday sovereign law that covers everybody, without them volunteering.
But, the imbalance of power is still enduring. The players have copped their whack, but those charged with upholding the sovereign law seem to be office bound. And, there is about half a dozen publicly funded agencies, who arguably have responsibilities to enforce various sovereign laws, and they've done not one jot.
One of the better examples is the VicPol Sports Integrity Unit. It was actually formed by Baillieu in response to Aperio (big public announcement shortly after the 'blackest day' presser in '13...."Victoria, sports capital of the world, integrity vital, yada, yada, yada").
And, the unit featured on another 4 Corners this year. We were privileged to hear about their magnificent contribution in uncovering illegal gambling and spot fixing in around about the 43rd division of the state soccer league.
Anyone ever heard about their exhaustive investigations into the matter that was used to justify their establishment (and funding)?
Me neither.
Victorian Sports Minister from '10 - '14.
Hugh Delahunty.
Any wonder some people keep wondering?
sonnywalters
Cancelled
Heppell is a straight up lying brainwashed dupe.
Dude - if it was all above board your club could have proved that three years ago.
Dude - if it was all above board your club could have proved that three years ago.
i tend to think that most people couldn't care less if the truth is we cheated or not, let along whether we set out to or not.
This was an opportunity to take the higher ground and lay into an opposition club
It was done to Adelaide, it was done to Carlton. It probably would have been done to Melbourne.
EFC were branded drug cheats from the day this broke, and nothing would have stopped quite a large number of people believing that.
Hence why i think all of this should have remained behind closed doors while the matter was investigated.
Whoever you believe is at fault here, it's tarnished the name of the club, the name of the players and the name of all involved.
And nothing changes that.
rehabilitating the club comes from pressing forward, supporting the banned players, never allowing this or anything like it to happen again and staying strong.
I don't know why "rehabilitation" is needed. The club needs to fold or get rid of every last vestige of people invovlved in the sage, from the boot studder, to the players, to the board.
There are, i believe, 3 people left on the board from 2012.
No idea who the boot studder is, but why you would go someone in such a removed role smacks of pettiness to me.
The players have gone through an investigation, and exercised their legal rights and will sit this season out.
If the body that everyone places their faith to determine the truth of the allegations against the players is not then trusted with the penalty it dishes out.......
As for folding, it won't happen.
But keep hoping.
gavaniacono
Cancelled
Stop it now JI. I can't handle any more reality!
Lifetime ban
Senior List
The problem with that follow up question is that we know from ASADA themselves that more than 14 of the 34 players were never tested, so never given a form to list anything on, therefore could give no response to their legal team when WADA raised the issue because they had nothing to respond to and could give even less of a response to being shown a form that didn't have their name or signature on it and that they had never seen.
So, try determining which of the 34 for a start signed forms, then which ones may or may not have had an injection in the previous 7 days prior to testing, then those that did sign a form and did list everything they used leaving the remainder as signing a form and not listing a substance they used in the previous 7 days. Then, to cap it right off, of that last group, determine those who deliberately left the information off as opposed to those who couldn't remember whether they got the injection 7 days ago or 8 days ago and therefore just left it off because it was easier. Or those who thought that it is only recommended to fill out this form with those substances I have used in the last 7 days in case I have an adverse test, but I am happy that nothing I have used is non-compliant and I really need an ice bath so bugger it, I will leave this blank.
As you can see, not really such a simple question after all.
Muggs
Premiership Player
No very simple question, Heppell was given a form, the question was asked were you one of those tested.
The meaning of the answer might be complicated, question itself is not.
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And, again, they do not fill out that section themselves. A doping control officer asks them "Have you had any supplements in the last 7 days?", all of the players said "no". Directly lying to a DCO is just unthinkable given their education.
I'm lazy myself, so the argument that they couldn't be bothered physically writing down 20 different supplements could be half-understandable. That's NOT what happened here though. If I thought I was taking supplements that were perfectly fine, I would spend the 10 seconds spurting off the names. Why would I look a DCO in the eyes and lie about it?
I'm lazy myself, so the argument that they couldn't be bothered physically writing down 20 different supplements could be half-understandable. That's NOT what happened here though. If I thought I was taking supplements that were perfectly fine, I would spend the 10 seconds spurting off the names. Why would I look a DCO in the eyes and lie about it?
And base on Prismall and Zaharakis' interviews recently, the extent and extremity of the program, was clearly enough for some players to say '**** no!' to it. One of them (can't recall which one) made it clear that this program was well beyond any other 'normal' supplement programs.
The failure to disclose the drugs to ASADA by the players is getting stinkier by the day.
The failure to disclose the drugs to ASADA by the players is getting stinkier by the day.
I thought it was reported during the hearing that the panel pressed players on this directly?
It shouldn't have come as a shock. And from the report, they had the chance to explain it to the CAS panel too.
EDIT: from Caro just after the hearing...
"Several of the seven past and present Bombers players summoned last month to appear before the Court of Arbitration for Sport were cross-examined as to why — if they believed they were taking legitimate drugs — they neglected to mention those drugs and the injections."
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PieBeast
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Dingley?
