Heppell on 360

[Muggs]

But was Warney's spot used for him to whinge about his ban? (I actually can't remember so I'm likely not actually making a point here)

Cant remember either but be surpised if it was not brought up in his first appearance or two.

I can forgive first time, now waiting to see if it's s once off or recurring theme.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

or, he joined the ranks of those who made a poor decision to go on public record knowing he couldn't speak about everything.
I don't really get what the point of Hepp being on last night was other than to provide some insight into how the group are feeling.
Questions about the details of the case were a waste of time. He was never going to answer them or give responses around his state of mind any different to what he did.

The media should have left this alone in 2013, and they should be leaving it alone now.
If they don't, they are the last that can b***h about the conduct of all parties throughout the saga.
Once the legal avenues are done and dusted, then speak to people.

It's solely to build public sympathy for the players and as Caro put it in yesterday's paper, rehabilitate the Essendon Football Club.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Am I the only one that feels sorry for the players?
Of course its easy for us to stand here now and be all high and mighty. These players were probably told that every club is doing this. That what they were taking is not illegal, that they are close to the line but not overstepping it, they see older players doing it without a question. Were probably told this is the sports scientist that worked at Geelong, Cronulla, etc. All this happening is just like a bad dream to them now. Theres no way anyone could have expected it to happen. Can you imagine a whole team of players being suspended? No way.

I dont think any one of us in their place would have done anything different. I really dont. he only ones that didnt have injections were the ones that were needle phobicOtherwise why would all 36 players take part? All of them are drug cheats, sure, by the letter of the law. But there is a reason why they are all on the same team. The administration that encouraged and basically forced them to do it.
How Hird and co are not going to jail for this is beyond me.

I do feel sorry for them to an extent. The problem isn't necessarily what happened in 2012 it is the way it's been handled since then and throughout the investigation. Complete lack of taking responsibility and blame shifting. Take responsibility and people would be a lot more forgiving.

I also doubt everyone would have done the same thing in their position. Once they started talking about exotic substances I'd never heard of I'd be researching furiously before agreeing to take part. It's not like this is the 70's where you need a medical degree to know what's going on, some basic internet searching and a few phone calls to ASADA/WADA/AFL/AFLPA would've done the trick. The AFL warned EFC against going down the path of a peptides program I'm sure they could've given some handy advice to the players that would've avoided all this.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

My theory on the events as we understand them;

Reid blew up early January with the injections, told Hird, wrote a letter and Hird issued the new protocol which said that everything had to pass through the Doc.

By late January / early February, Reid still hasn't okayed the AOD. This is when the 'UN skills' messages are sent as the Doc was 'holding up the program'. He was viewed as out of touch with modern sports science and a bit of a fuddy-duddy.

I think it was around here that the players were asked to keep the program from the Doc because they were 'falling behind schedule'. However, players are worried about this so seek assurances that the program is safe, legit etc. Out come the 'Consent Forms'.

That's one possibility. But if you really believe your programme is compliant and there are real benefits in it for your players, don't you pull the Doc into the office and lay it out for him, tell him that this what you're doing and you want him on board. If he doesn't want to get on board, and has nothing to back his position, then you're going ahead anyway, no hard feelings but bad luck, Doc. Isn't that easier than convincing 35+ players to conceal it from him? What happens if someone slips up without a good reason to keep it a secret?

I think that they all thought that TB4, like AOD, was S0 and that they had a loophole for that. So 'technically' weren't cheating, but not right either, and they were never going to convince Reid to go along with that - he'd likely report them as he did with the tribulus.

 

[Pessimistic]

Planet Essendon

Has a nice ring to it

 

[DapperJong]

Am I the only one that feels sorry for the players?
Of course its easy for us to stand here now and be all high and mighty. These players were probably told that every club is doing this. That what they were taking is not illegal, that they are close to the line but not overstepping it, they see older players doing it without a question. Were probably told this is the sports scientist that worked at Geelong, Cronulla, etc. All this happening is just like a bad dream to them now. Theres no way anyone could have expected it to happen. Can you imagine a whole team of players being suspended? No way.

I dont think any one of us in their place would have done anything different. I really dont. he only ones that didnt have injections were the ones that were needle phobicOtherwise why would all 36 players take part? All of them are drug cheats, sure, by the letter of the law. But there is a reason why they are all on the same team. The administration that encouraged and basically forced them to do it.
How Hird and co are not going to jail for this is beyond me.

You don't belong here.

;P

 

[Old Shinboner]

How does this drug cheat get a regular gig on tv whilst serving a suspension?

Beggars belief.

 

[D-N-R]

That's one possibility. But if you really believe your programme is compliant and there are real benefits in it for your players, don't you pull the Doc into the office and lay it out for him, tell him that this what you're doing and you want him on board. If he doesn't want to get on board, and has nothing to back his position, then you're going ahead anyway, no hard feelings but bad luck, Doc. Isn't that easier than convincing 35+ players to conceal it from him? What happens if someone slips up without a good reason to keep it a secret?

I think that they all thought that TB4, like AOD, was S0 and that they had a loophole for that. So 'technically' weren't cheating, but not right either, and they were never going to convince Reid to go along with that - he'd likely report them as he did with the tribulus.

I'm inclined to believe that Reid was kept in the dark about some of the program - some injections like Tribulus and Colostrom were (supposedly) administered pre- and post-game, so he must have known about these surely, and he must have known Dank was at the club, which means he was aware that some sort of program was going on. Perhaps he just didn't know about the TB-4, which was the crux of the WADA case and that was because of what you said.

It hurts my head trying to make sense of what went on.

There are too many holes in the story and too few explanations to fill them. Hopefully after the appeal, the rest of the tale will come out, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[donpyke92]

Heppell is such an impressive young man, Say what you want but he's been dealt a pretty rough hand these last 4 years and he's grown in stature, Fantastic to see him last night can't wait to watch him all season.

What a shame that he can't be seen all season playing the game rather than 360, but for many bad decisions made by the club/players/legals on many levels during this saga. Our game & its fans are the big losers here. Very poorly managed.

 

[Armchair Critic]

I don't mind him to be honest, I don't care he is on TV whilst he is banned either. Hird himself would have been better than Goddard anyway TBH, thank Christ he is not there anymore

 

[DapperJong]

How does this drug cheat get a regular gig on tv whilst serving a suspension?

Beggars belief.

Does it really? Like you can't actually believe it's happening? Like a UFO sighting or second coming?

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Can he do a youtube segment on how to tie a tourniquet to get deep veins right up to the surface for easy injecting?

 

[Laphroaig]

Does it really? Like you can't actually believe it's happening? Like a UFO sighting or second coming?

Sadly the days of a second coming are far behind me.

 

[DapperJong]

Sadly the days of a second coming are far behind me.

It's quite a feat in itself. Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

[Satan]

It's quite a feat in itself. Don't be so hard on yourself.

was not that James problem?

 

[threesixpio]

Am I the only one that feels sorry for the players?
Of course its easy for us to stand here now and be all high and mighty. These players were probably told that every club is doing this. That what they were taking is not illegal, that they are close to the line but not overstepping it, they see older players doing it without a question. Were probably told this is the sports scientist that worked at Geelong, Cronulla, etc. All this happening is just like a bad dream to them now. Theres no way anyone could have expected it to happen. Can you imagine a whole team of players being suspended? No way.

I dont think any one of us in their place would have done anything different. I really dont. he only ones that didnt have injections were the ones that were needle phobicOtherwise why would all 36 players take part? All of them are drug cheats, sure, by the letter of the law. But there is a reason why they are all on the same team. The administration that encouraged and basically forced them to do it.
How Hird and co are not going to jail for this is beyond me.

I do and I don't.

People say this saga is simple - but it isn't. Most of the frustration people feel who have been following this closely is how the whole saga has been simplified.

The media is doing a fine job of making us feel sorry for the players whilst missing some fundamental truths. Ignorance of the law (a substance's WADA status) is no excuse. Players have a responsibility to ensure what goes into their bodies.

But there is another simplification - that all players should be treated the same.

Where were the leaders at this club? What TF were they thinking? Do I judge Jobe Watson more harshly than Hal Hunter or the younger of the 34? You bet like F I do.

This saga also touches on so many different areas of law and depending on which law you're looking at the players are, quite rightly either culprits or victims. Re WADA compliance - they're culprits. Re workplace safety - victims.

The media has been disastrously simplistic with the nuances here

So in short - if all these players end up with cancer or something of course I feel sorry for them. I feel more sorry for the younger kids re WADA compliance but still think they dropped the ball. Re older experienced players getting bans - suck shit

 

[dockerfemme]

I do and I don't.

People say this saga is simple - but it isn't. Most of the frustration people feel who have been following this closely is how the whole saga has been simplified.

The media is doing a fine job of making us feel sorry for the players whilst missing some fundamental truths. Ignorance of the law (a substance's WADA status) is no excuse. Players have a responsibility to ensure what goes into their bodies.

But there is another simplification - that all players should be treated the same.

Where were the leaders at this club? What TF were they thinking? Do I judge Jobe Watson more harshly than Hal Hunter or the younger of the 34? You bet like F I do.

This saga also touches on so many different areas of law and depending on which law you're looking at the players are, quite rightly either culprits or victims. Re WADA compliance - they're culprits. Re workplace safety - victims.

The media has been disastrously simplistic with the nuances here

So in short - if all these players end up with cancer or something of course I feel sorry for them. I feel more sorry for the younger kids re WADA compliance but still think they dropped the ball. Re older experienced players getting bans - suck shit

I find it amazing that stuff like the financials for the AOD project has been completely forgotten (maybe at the directive of the AFL), and as raised elsewhere recently, the board members who have sat thru this whole debacle are still sitting there.

 

[Chief]

I didn't hear anyone ask Heppell if he was one of the players who failed to tell ASADA about the injections?

Puff piece to get all of it out of the way so anyone bringing it up can be told shut up, that's been dealt with.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I find it amazing that stuff like the financials for the AOD project has been completely forgotten (maybe at the directive of the AFL), and as raised elsewhere recently, the board members who have sat thru this whole debacle are still sitting there.

Listen to the recent footytalk.com.au podcast for a breakdown of the CAS finding - nothing new in there for those of us who have been following but identifies key areas that are simply forgotten or dropped by the footy media (for example the use of TB4 in the AOD study).

Nb. The recent podcast doesn't seem to be coming up in the feed so I had to listen directly through the footytalk.com.au website.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I didn't hear anyone ask Heppell if he was one of the players who failed to tell ASADA about the injections?

Puff piece to get all of it out of the way so anyone bringing it up can be told shut up, that's been dealt with.

Heppell said he couldn't believe that statement from WADA/CAS because he was one of the players tested and definitely didn't leave anything off the declarations. They asked him if he asked around others and he said yes, they were all in disbelief (unless I misheard - I may have been too busy furiously shaking my head).

 

[Muggs]

Heppell said he couldn't believe that statement from WADA/CAS because he was one of the players tested and definitely didn't leave anything off the declarations. They asked him if he asked around others and he said yes, they were all in disbelief (unless I misheard - I may have been too busy furiously shaking my head).

I got the impression that Heppell was more talking about the interviews once the investigation started with ASADA, not the doping control forms and what he told testers. .

Think he answered a different question to what was asked.

This is in line with the general response with this type of question. We fully cooperated with the investigation and ignore what they did 12 months earlier...

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I got the impression that Heppell was more talking about the interviews once the investigation started with ASADA, not the doping control forms and what he told testers. .

Think he answered a different question to what was asked.

This is in line with the general response with this type of question. We fully cooperated with the investigation and ignore what they did 12 months earlier...

Hmmm, may have to watch again that wasn't my impression. I thought he was talking about the doping control forms.

 

[Muggs]

Hmmm, may have to watch again that wasn't my impression. I thought he was talking about the doping control forms.

The question was, just not sure his answer was. He talked about how he was completely honest and open from day 1. Every time this question is asked of anyone from EFC always feel the answer deflects to the investigation.

No one ever asks the follow up question, so if you were open and honest why did you list nothing on the form? What was your response when your legal team asked you about this when WADA raised this issue? What was your reponse when shown a copy of the form you signed which was submitted as evidence declaring nothing?

Every journo accepts the deflection.

 

[blackshadow]

The question was, just not sure his answer was. He talked about how he was completely honest and open from day 1. Every time this question is asked of anyone from EFC always feel the answer deflects to the investigation.

No one ever asks the follow up question, so if you were open and honest why did you list nothing on the form? What was your response when your legal team asked you about this when WADA raised this issue? What was your reponse when shown a copy of the form you signed which was submitted as evidence declaring nothing?

Every journo accepts the deflection.

Would love to see some real journalists reporting on the AFL.

 

[Andrew Mc]

The question was, just not sure his answer was. He talked about how he was completely honest and open from day 1. Every time this question is asked of anyone from EFC always feel the answer deflects to the investigation.

No one ever asks the follow up question, so if you were open and honest why did you list nothing on the form? What was your response when your legal team asked you about this when WADA raised this issue? What was your reponse when shown a copy of the form you signed which was submitted as evidence declaring nothing?

Every journo accepts the deflection.

Sorry, but this term gets bandied around too much. They aren't jouros, they are paid marketers of the AFL.