Hezbollah > Jews

[Qsaint]

Well no. It just comes down to numbers.

In '82 the IDF put 30,000 into the ground invasion. Reached Beirut in a day or so.

In 06 they put less than 3000. Clearly they were wanting to avoid a big ground battle.

Thats why the main General got sacked, he was an airforce man and thought he could do it with airpower. Same mistake the US keeps making. Probably the Israeli PM didn't want too many casualties either, puts the main general between a rock and a hard place. I suspect a full plan is now being put together for the unfortunately inevitable round 2.

 

[Qsaint]

Nice people get nowhere.

They do tend to live longer

 

[Moo]

Have a nice little cry.

Hezbollah > Dirt rotten Jews

This rubbish brings this board down.

 

[Leon Trotsky]

This rubbish brings this board down.

This board cant get much lower.

 

[OB1]

Have a nice little cry.

Hezbollah > Dirt rotten Jews

Well, I'll at least give you credit for admitting your bigotry.

 

[Audemars Piguet]

Hehehe. Let me guess...you have little- no life and are an angry bitter little man. You find the need to take out this anger on people you've actually never had an association with, simply because it's an easy thing to do (especially on an internet forum).

Address your personal problems...don't take them out on us. This is a place for proper discussion....not little bigots.

Good guess. There are two types of people in Western society

1. Those who condone the activities of terrorists including Hezzbola
2. Those who dont

The first category are more often than not underachieving failures and left-wing Arts students who are bitter because they are not getting a piece of the "rich white mans pie".

As a result they treat the rest of western society with contempt. Very sad indeed.

 

[GuruJane]

. I suspect a full plan is now being put together for the unfortunately inevitable round 2.

Indeed. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3292538,00.html

 

[GuruJane]

Thats why the main General got sacked, he was an airforce man and thought he could do it with airpower. Same mistake the US keeps making. Probably the Israeli PM didn't want too many casualties either, puts the main general between a rock and a hard place. .

Politically/strategically they would have considered the ramifications of a massive ground invasion - immediately would have been dubbed "new occupation" and probably caused a ceasefire/immediate withdrawal much earlier, also Siniora wld have had to throw the Lebanese Army into the mix too.

The "pin point" strategy is identical to what they are doing in Gaza - again to avoid a blown blown invasion inspiring a ceasfire resolution.

Main targets of air campaign seem to be long range missiles and destroying Dahiya. It's not fully recognised how essential Dahiya is to Hez's image ... the effects of it going won't be obvious, more a slow drip. Also I think there were devastaing strikes on Bekaa Valley that didn't get much attention.

As it is, the Israeli higher echelon are probably perplexed that it isn't being recognised the pickle Hezbollah is in ... and how Israel can exploit 1701 to its advantage on top of 1559.

Typical of Israelis - hopeless, absolutely hopeless at PR - basically because all they are ever fixated on is their own security.

Interesting analysis here: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0817/p09s02-coop.html

 

[medusala]

Typical of Israelis - hopeless, absolutely hopeless at PR - basically because all they are ever fixated on is their own security.

For once totally agree with you on this subject.

When you see their spokesmen on TV and they talk about Israel fighting for its very survival the interviewers can't but help roll their eyes.

They were blessed by own goal by opposition with terror plot in UK.

 

[Solace]

For once totally agree with you on this subject.

When you see their spokesmen on TV and they talk about Israel fighting for its very survival the interviewers can't but help roll their eyes.

They were blessed by own goal by opposition with terror plot in UK.

Blessed is not the word that i would use...

 

[Solace]

Wow Jane, look back to a few years ago. The pendulum has shifted to the other side. 80% of people were backing the zionists then, 80% today are not...

Peace = end of zionism
War = end of zionism

Which do you choose?

 

[Bombers 2003]

Not my fault Stalin ordered some weak prick to kill me.

If he was a 'weak Prick' why did u accept him as a mate?

 

[GuruJane]

They were blessed by own goal by opposition with terror plot in UK.

The Islamofascists can always be relied upon.

 

[Moo]

The Islamofascists can always be relied upon.

GJ you do yourself no favours with this ridiculous bushspeak.

 

[audas]

How on earth can people defend the actions of Israel and the US ? How can you not understand how thoroughly evil the things they do are ? There is only one of two ways that this could occur, either a hidden agenda or galacticly stupid. There is no other possible explanation.

Either way, both are profoundly inhumane and render the proponents moronic.

 

[RedLegs#5]

How on earth can people defend the actions of Israel and the US ? How can you not understand how thoroughly evil the things they do are ? There is only one of two ways that this could occur, either a hidden agenda or galacticly stupid. There is no other possible explanation.

Either way, both are profoundly inhumane and render the proponents moronic.

I'd love to see you living under the rule of the Hezbollah or the Hamas.

You are lucky to live in a free country...why on earth would you want to jeopardize that?

Some people amaze me...

 

[Moo]

You are lucky to live in a free country...why on earth would you want to jeopardize that?

I dont - I assume you are supportive of Israel leaving occupied land to help create peace in the region.

 

[GuruJane]

GJ you do yourself no favours with this ridiculous bushspeak.

In the 1930s the western world was brought to the brink of destruction by well meaning, well intentioned people who denied the realities of fascism taking place right before their eyes. They tried to shoot the messenger too. Why wouldn't they? It's the ones who don't stick their heads in the sand risk getting it shot off.

 

[Moo]

In the 1930s the western world was brought to the brink of destruction by well meaning, well intentioned people who denied the realities of fascism taking place right before their eyes. They tried to shoot the messenger too. Why wouldn't they? It's the ones who don't stick their heads in the sand risk getting it shot off.

George says it and then you repeat it.

It is a ridiculous term.

 

[Bombers 2003]

It is a ridiculous term.

I agree,'Islamofascists' are a ridiculous term.It would be the only long word georgie boy knows.

 

[GuruJane]

George says it and then you repeat it.

It is a ridiculous term.

You don't have any understanding at all of what the term means and apparently don't even know when and by whom it was first coined. You think it's a George Bush soundbite? Well you'll know what it means soon enough if Iran gets its nuclear weapons. You'll be back in Australia so fast ... if you can get on a plane that is.

 

[just maybe]

Good guess. There are two types of people in Western society

1. Those who condone the activities of terrorists including Hezzbola
2. Those who dont

The first category are more often than not underachieving failures and left-wing Arts students who are bitter because they are not getting a piece of the "rich white mans pie".

As a result they treat the rest of western society with contempt. Very sad indeed.

Well done for trying to reduce Western society into two primary school archetypes.

Have you been watching too much Star Wars or Dubya Bush speeches?

 

[just maybe]

In the 1930s the western world was brought to the brink of destruction by well meaning, well intentioned people who denied the realities of fascism taking place right before their eyes. They tried to shoot the messenger too. Why wouldn't they? It's the ones who don't stick their heads in the sand risk getting it shot off.

Is that like when the world was brought to the brink of destruction by the threat of Communism too?

 

[just maybe]

You don't have any understanding at all of what the term means and apparently don't even know when and by whom it was first coined. You think it's a George Bush soundbite? Well you'll know what it means soon enough if Iran gets its nuclear weapons. You'll be back in Australia so fast ... if you can get on a plane that is.

It's a stupid term, and you have only used it since George Bush used it in one of his soundbites.

 

[GuruJane]

George says it and then you repeat it.

It is a ridiculous term.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/what_are_islamic_fascists_anyw.html

You might get some enlightenment from this op ed by David Ignatious.

He starts off by demurring that "the phrase is misleading, both in the sweeping reference to Islam and its evocation of another century (20th!!! only six years ago)

... and then goes on to provide the most succicnt and accurate description of the similiarities and reasons why Islamic fascism is mirroring German fascism that I have read.

Are We Fighting 'Islamic Fascists'?
By David Ignatius

WASHINGTON -- "This nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom,'' President Bush said last week after Britain announced it had foiled a plot to blow up airliners over the Atlantic. I have been pondering since then his description of the enemy. What are "Islamic fascists,'' and does this phrase make sense in describing America's adversaries?

The judicious columnist's answer is, of course, "yes'' and "no.'' A look at the history of fascism produces some startling parallels to the revolutionary movements that have swept Iran and other Muslim countries over the past several decades. But the phrase is misleading, both in its sweeping reference to Islam and in its evocation of another century and another war.

One of the old college textbooks gathering dust in my basement is Ernst Nolte's "Three Faces of Fascism,'' a classic study of the social forces that created fascist movements in France, Italy and Germany during the 1920s and '30s. It's a dense book, but it concludes with one unforgettable insight. Fascism, Nolte said, is "resistance to transcendence.'' By that, he meant that fascism was a rebellion against the liberating but destabilizing transformations of modern society.

In the countries where it took root, fascism began as a middle-class assault on the liberal elites who were creating that era's version of globalization. Jews were a special target, but they were also symbols of a larger internationalist movement. In one passage, Nolte described the focus of fascist protest in language that might apply to today's globalized world: "The leading class performs its task of establishing the technical and economic unity of the world, and emancipating all men for participation in this undertaking, in ever new political and intellectual compromises with the hitherto ruling powers: It is the society of synthesis.''

The fascist revolt against "transcendence'' was driven in part by rage against the perceived corruption of the European elites, who were thought to have grown rich during the booming, inflationary years of the 1920s at the expense of the hard-working middle class. The final malign motivation in Germany was shame and indignation over the nation's defeat in World War I. Fascism gave ordinary people an explanation of what had gone wrong in their lives -- and someone to blame.

I do see many of these same factors in the growing popularity of radical Islam in the Middle East. The baseline for this movement remains the Iranian revolution of 1979, which exploded in the region's most modern and, if you will, "transcendent'' state. The Shah's Iran was rushing to embrace the global economy. Its elite was liberal, secular, international -- and also wretchedly corrupt. Ordinary Muslims felt, with some justice, that they were being left out of the spoils of this new Iran -- that their hard work was being used to buy mansions on the Cote d'Azur. That radical populism lives on in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, dressed in his ostentatiously humble golf jacket.

I remember how that revolutionary indignation swept the Middle East in the early 1980s, when I first began covering the region. The most popular preacher in Cairo in 1981 was Sheik Kishk, who would ridicule the corruption and Western ways of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and his family. A few months later, Sadat was murdered by Muslim terrorists.

Today's Muslim radicals, like the Nazis in Germany, gain support by promising dignity for a people who feel shamed by defeat in war. That's the appeal of Hezbollah's leader Hasan Nasrallah: The Arabs feel they have suffered 40 years of military humiliation from Israel. Nasrallah offers the tonic of defiance and, for the moment at least, a sort of victory. That makes him a hero, even though he brought on the ruination of Lebanon.

Back to President Bush and his "Islamic fascists.'' In many ways, this phrase does capture the rage that fuels America's enemies. What is most pernicious about the movement is that, as with European fascism, it has made Jews the symbol for larger forces that confound angry Muslims. This is perverse: The corrupt elites who obstruct Iranians, Egyptians, Syrians and Saudis today aren't Israeli Jews but their own rulers and their legions of fixers and bagmen.

Yet I balk at the term. The notion that we are fighting "Islamic fascists" blurs the conflict, widening the enemy to many if not all Muslims. It's as if we were to call Hitler and Mussolini "Christian fascists," implying that it is their religion, not resistance to transcendence, that is the root cause of the problem. The revolution that began in Iran in 1979 must be contained so that it doesn't destabilize the region more than it already has. But it will only be broken from within, by people who are at last ready to transcend.

In his last sentence Ignatious is forgetting that it took two world wars to defeat the German empire .... he seems to think fascism can be defeated from within - but he does not even give an example.