Hodge

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At the time when both Hodge and Judd were drafted Judd had had a history of injuries (two shoulder reconstructions if I recall correctly!). Both had been standout players as juniors but Hawthorn went for the player that they thought could both make an immmediate impact AND looked more durable. As it has turned out Judd has been more durable than many people thought he might be (as well as being a star player) but I don't think that Hawthorn can be faulted for their decision !
 

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sharpie said:
Would have thought the games elite would be the top 10

and he is not there

FFS - there are 2 better players in his own side - and 1 coming through quick
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I'd have Mitchell before him at present, but no one else. Crawf, Buddy and Croad would all be behind him in my opinion.
 
Gunnar Longshanks said:
Especially Judd, who is better than Hodge.
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Mr Longwhanks, what is your opinion on Luke Hodge?

- Hmmm. Not as good as Chris Judd.

And Mr Longwhanks, how do you rate Jonathan Brown as a key forward?

- Judd is better.

You're a knowledgeable man, Sir Longwhanks. Is Judd the best you've seen?

- Yes


Jesus, mate. Why do you bother?
 
DynamoUltra said:
But on what Alex said, Judd has not won a premiership by himself, nor did he create the opportunity to win a Norm Smith by himself.
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You generally have to be pretty special to win a Normie playing in a losing team. Ablett (IIRC), Bucks, Judd... Elite company you would reckon.

Also Judd can go into any team and make that team that much better instantly. Example is. East Perth Round 1 2002. Us mighty royals belted who-ever we played first round with Judd easily BOG (hes friggen 18). Round 2 we get belted with Judd staring for the Eagles (again hes friggen 18). I can name plenty of other examples.

Look Judds name should of never really came up in this debate but it has and for those to suggest Hodge > Judd is just complete stupidity. The last time i had this debate, it was something along the lines of

"the only thing Judd can do better than Hodge is run fast"

:)
 
doppleganger said:
Hodge reminds me so much of N.Buckley.

So far he has played all his footy in poor teams, had been used across HB by his coach which has meant that he cops it from some supporters unfairly

Like Buckley he has one of the best kicks going around, perhaps Hodge shanks a few more compared to Bucks but can drill a penetrating 60m pass like a few players can.

Hodge IMO also has had a few leadership queries in that he often loses his cool and starts given away stupid free kicks, where Buckley would criticise his team mates for not being at his level..........Buckley learnt from this and when he was handed the captaincy became a brilliant leader, think Hodge will do the same as he matures.

Buckley moved into more the middle and became an inside clearance specialist, who was also so damagin out wide......Hodge will do this to, already does some hawks fans may say

Both are big solid midfielders who lay heaps of tackles and inspire their team mates when out on the field

Both also have the size to pinch hit up forward too

Hodge has very similar tools to Buckley, seems he has a better list behind him, so he may get more team rewards if he is half a good as a leader as Bucks became!
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Not such bad comparison, Doppelganger.

Regarding leadership, Hodgey is a natural leader - possibly the best we've ever had - he has been leading the way since he first stepped into the side. He has had a short fuse at times, but less so in 2007, with more maturity. Leadership did not come easy for Buckley. It was something he had to work at.

I reckon Hodge is a more complete footballer than Buckley. That is not a criticism of Buckley - he worked his arse off to make himself the footballer he was and he never stopped improving, an admirable trait for any footballer. Buckley was a champion and a natural, but I reckon Hodge is potentially a greater all-round package. He is a far better tackler than Buckley ever was and he's much better overhead. He also relishes hurting his opponents. He loves the rough stuff (within the rules) whereas Buckley never went out of his way to bump opponents. Hodge can intimidate. He's a unique footballer the way he combines sublime skills with ferocity and aggression. A bit like Voss or Matthews.

Buckley had the bigger tank and he was a machine the way he delivered over and over. But in a one-on-one contest for the ball, I'd back Hodge to beat Bucks in his prime. He's more explosive over 15m-20m.

Of course, Buckley has the runs on the board, but it's going to be a pleasure to watch Hodge carve his own place in history.

But I'm sure, when he's dead and buried, vandals will scrawl on his tombstone: Not as good as Judd!
 
Collins-Langford-Ayres said:
I'd have Mitchell before him at present, but no one else. Crawf, Buddy and Croad would all be behind him in my opinion.
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still - my point is valid - he isn't a top 10 player, mitchel I agree would go close

I'd put craw ahead of him as well.

with Buddy probably 2 seasons from being clearly hawthorn's best

I think hodge is getting to be high quality - but think he is a noticeably behing guys (in the midfield) like black, hayes, west et al

in saying that - what is happening ths year with hodge is he is getting up the ground and getting possessions (and goals) from dangerous positions.

my biggest criticism was the number of kicks he got on hlaf back. that does seem to be changing
 
sharpie said:
still - my point is valid - he isn't a top 10 player, mitchel I agree would go close

I'd put craw ahead of him as well.

with Buddy probably 2 seasons from being clearly hawthorn's best

I think hodge is getting to be high quality - but think he is a noticeably behing guys (in the midfield) like black, hayes, west et al

in saying that - what is happening ths year with hodge is he is getting up the ground and getting possessions (and goals) from dangerous positions.

my biggest criticism was the number of kicks he got on hlaf back. that does seem to be changing
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Mate, he was dominant in 2005, one of the best players in the competition. The only reason he didn't receive full recognition (and a Brownlow) is that our team sucked, we won only 5 games and no one bothered to watch us.

In 2006 Hodge carried injuries all season, but soldiered on at half pace, sacrificed his attacking instincts and still came 2nd in our best and fairest!

The clueless people out there continue to label him as "overrated".

The people who know their footy and have witnessed his better performances have no doubts about it.
The guy is a champion.

C-H-A-M-P-I-O-N.

The reason he got most of his kicks at half back is because that is where the coach played him.
Sometimes as "quarterback" or sometimes in a defensive role at CHB on guys much bigger.
Hodge is our best player, no question, and Clarkson uses him whereever he needs him most to cover our weaknesses.
Lately the coach has been able send him forwards, which is why all of a sudden you've seen him rip games open in a new role.

Like all the best players, he can play anywhere.
 
sharpie said:
still - my point is valid - he isn't a top 10 player, mitchel I agree would go close

I'd put craw ahead of him as well.

with Buddy probably 2 seasons from being clearly hawthorn's best

I think hodge is getting to be high quality - but think he is a noticeably behing guys (in the midfield) like black, hayes, west et al

in saying that - what is happening ths year with hodge is he is getting up the ground and getting possessions (and goals) from dangerous positions.

my biggest criticism was the number of kicks he got on hlaf back. that does seem to be changing
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It's only changing because the coach decides where he plays depending on what role best suits the club. He has played in almost every position bar the ruck (although averages 1 hitout every 2 games), on all types and succeeded, sometimes dominated.

There's only one other current day footballer I can think of who is just as versatile, that 6ft 4 gun from Freo.
 

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sharpie said:
still - my point is valid - he isn't a top 10 player, mitchel I agree would go close

I'd put craw ahead of him as well.

with Buddy probably 2 seasons from being clearly hawthorn's best

I think hodge is getting to be high quality - but think he is a noticeably behing guys (in the midfield) like black, hayes, west et al

in saying that - what is happening ths year with hodge is he is getting up the ground and getting possessions (and goals) from dangerous positions.

my biggest criticism was the number of kicks he got on hlaf back. that does seem to be changing
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It amused me when people used to try and degrade him when he played back, when really it is what makes him so special, his versatility to play in a variety of positions when needed.

If our defense is struggling he goes back and holds it together. People used to see it as 'getting cheap kicks' and totally ignore that his defensive work in holding a forward 10cm taller than him whilst delivering the ball and setting up our attacking play from the backline. He's not just an attacking player, but his defensive work is second to none, probably wont show up on dream team points, but the game is played on the field and he has a real presence about him offensively and defensively.

Can play backline, centre and now has shown his abilty forward. He's a true utility.
 
cschreuder61 said:
It amused me when people used to try and degrade him when he played back, when really it is what makes him so special, his versatility to play in a variety of positions when needed.

If our defense is struggling he goes back and holds it together. People used to see it as 'getting cheap kicks' and totally ignore that his defensive work in holding a forward 10cm taller than him whilst delivering the ball and setting up our attacking play from the backline. He's not just an attacking player, but his defensive work is second to none, probably wont show up on dream team points, but the game is played on the field and he has a real presence about him offensively and defensively.

Can play backline, centre and now has shown his abilty forward. He's a true utility.
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Be interesting to see how well Hodge would go if he were free to play midfield for a season. Hawks haven't had the luxury and perhaps would never want to.
 
cschreuder61 said:
It amused me when people used to try and degrade him when he played back, when really it is what makes him so special, his versatility to play in a variety of positions when needed.

true utility.
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what amuses me was when he got 25 touches across half back playing loose all the hawks fans were jumping up and down claiming him the saviour. he wasn't dominant he was the loose player

ffs - jacobs, j cloke can rack up 30 touches on half back

then when he goes into the midfield in 2006 and can't win the ball it's because of injury

now in 2007 he has a couple of good games he is in the games elite.

if he can get 25 damaging touches a game in 14 games per year for 3 years straight - then he'd be up there

he hasn't and he isn't

why not champion the 2 midfielders you do have that have consistently performed - that's what i don't get

I agree the judd associations are rubbish - just because hussey isn't as good as ponting doesn't make him rubbish - but there is definitely 1, arguably 2 better midfielders in his own side - and yet he get's heralded as the second coming.

I wouldn't put him in the top 10 onballers, let alone top 10 in the league
 
Chewy said:
C-H-A-M-P-I-O-N.
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dreaming - there are but a few champion players in the league - and he certinaly aint one of them

champions = hird, buckley harvey, ricciutto - guys who have done it year in year out when it counts.

not someone who has had a couple of good games in the midfield

I don't disagree that thy guy can play - he is a quality player - but he isn't a champion or a legend or elite

he may get there - but consistency of performance needs to be achieved over a decade to get that accolade

perhaps only Coleman in th history of the game would be referred to as a champion after 100 games.
 
sharpie said:
what amuses me was when he got 25 touches across half back playing loose all the hawks fans were jumping up and down claiming him the saviour. he wasn't dominant he was the loose player
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When are you referring to? He does far more than that, its just shows lack of knowledge of Hodge when you make a statement like that

ffs - jacobs, j cloke can rack up 30 touches on half back

then when he goes into the midfield in 2006 and can't win the ball it's because of injury
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That is why most astute judges don't judge a players game merely from statistics, as small minded people as yourself when then go and compare Luke Hodge to J. Cloke because of stats.

now in 2007 he has a couple of good games he is in the games elite.
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Nice spin on it, he has had some brilliant games, and some solid games, starting to hit peak form mid year.

if he can get 25 damaging touches a game in 14 games per year for 3 years straight - then he'd be up there
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He did more than that in 2005, last year was carrying something the whole year and was limited, still came second in our best and fairest. This year he'll probably make All Australian again

I agree the judd associations are rubbish - just because hussey isn't as good as ponting doesn't make him rubbish - but there is definitely 1, arguably 2 better midfielders in his own side - and yet he get's heralded as the second coming.
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Hodge is our best player. I can't believe after all the over exaggerations about Judd possibly being the best ever, which is just rubbish, that you have the audacity to say Hodge gets too much credit for playing well. Its laughable.

I wouldn't put him in the top 10 onballers, let alone top 10 in the league
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That's your opinion, many would.

Where he ranks in your top 10 doesn't have any bearing on how important he is to us.

Gun.
 
sharpie said:
what amuses me was when he got 25 touches across half back playing loose all the hawks fans were jumping up and down claiming him the saviour. he wasn't dominant he was the loose player

ffs - jacobs, j cloke can rack up 30 touches on half back

then when he goes into the midfield in 2006 and can't win the ball it's because of injury
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Are you alright ???? Hodge wasn't just playing the loose man in 2005, he was moved into the midfield after round 8, I find it amazing that he was 1st or 2nd in centre bounce clearances in 2005 while he was on the half back line, thats a marvellous trick. :thumbsu:
 
I would say that hodge is clearly the most versatle and damaging player that hawthorn have, at the moment. mitchell is more consistent and prolific in the middle, but doesn't really have the ability to grab the game by the throat and tear it up, like hodge does. franklin is able to dominate a game, but tends to run hot and cold at this stage of his career.

what makes hodge especially valuable to the side is his ability to play anywhere. backline, midfield, forward - the coach knows he can put him wherever he needs him. he has taken some realy courageous marks on the last line over the last few years, he's hard in it and nailed some burning passes into the forward line from the midfield, and lately he has shown that he can slot few a few goals in the forward line, too.

I don't think there are too many players in the AFL who share his qualities...
 
cschreuder61 said:
When are you referring to? He does far more than that, its just shows lack of knowledge of Hodge when you make a statement like that
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I agree he is doing more than that - this season that is

he didin't do more than that in 05

he did **** all last year

the word champion belongs to but a few, WCE have had maybe a couple -= matera and jakovich

the guy can play - stop whining - i am no arguing that - he is a quality player

but he aint a champion or a legend or whatever other term you want to give him.

give him a few years and I'll agree with you
but one season doesn't make a season.

Let's assume that 05 he was dominant - and he was equally dominant for half this season.

does 1.5 good seasons of footy make a champion? i think not
 
cschreuder61 said:
When are you referring to? He does far more than that, its just shows lack of knowledge of Hodge when you make a statement like that



That is why most astute judges don't judge a players game merely from statistics, as small minded people as yourself when then go and compare Luke Hodge to J. Cloke because of stats.



Nice spin on it, he has had some brilliant games, and some solid games, starting to hit peak form mid year.



He did more than that in 2005, last year was carrying something the whole year and was limited, still came second in our best and fairest. This year he'll probably make All Australian again



Hodge is our best player. I can't believe after all the over exaggerations about Judd possibly being the best ever, which is just rubbish, that you have the audacity to say Hodge gets too much credit for playing well. Its laughable.



That's your opinion, many would.

Where he ranks in your top 10 doesn't have any bearing on how important he is to us.

Gun.
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Had to respond to ths again

SPIN???

Now who's bringing Judd into it?

I never said he wasn't important - I never said he couldn't play

Ashley Hansen is very important to the eagles side - but he'd be lucky to be in the top 100 players in the afl

Hodge got 37 possessions in a game against WCE in 2005. I was there - 30 off them would have been sideways on about defensive 50m - i even made a post about it back then (perhaps on another forum)

His stats were often cheap in 2005 - I'm not saying they are now - which is why a 20 possession game from Hodge today would be better than a 30 possession game from him 2 years ago

pull the brown and gold from your ass and actually read what I have posted, rather than I assume I am trying to compare him to Judd or say he is rubbish

What I have said is he is not a champion - that is restricted to but a few.

He isn;t elite yet, he may put in elite performances - he did against our mob a few weeks back. But if he can do that for another 2 or 3 seasons then I'll agree with you.

Simon Black is elite, Scott West is elite, matthew pavlich is elite.

Hodge may become elite - he aint there yet
 
I've never made such claims, I rate Hodge how I see him and can sense what he is already and what he can do.

I never whinged, just found is amusing after all the "can't compare anyone to Judd, Judd is the greatest ever" threds we see, and you are having a go at Hodge receiving some much deserved credit
 
cschreuder61 said:
I've never made such claims, I rate Hodge how I see him and can sense what he is already and what he can do.

I never whinged, just found is amusing after all the "can't compare anyone to Judd, Judd is the greatest ever" threds we see, and you are having a go at Hodge receiving some much deserved credit
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the guy does deserve credit - he is a good player - a very good player

but i was refuting some of the outlandish claims made by your hwk brethren

just because idiots talk judd up as the best ever, doesn't make it ok to talk hodge up as a champion - both claims are false and made by people with footy attention spans of 4 weeks
 

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