NO TROLLS Homophobia in the AFL - 4 Corners

[Gralin]

But why is there a much much higher percentage of lesbians compared with general population in the female football codes?

maybe because its one place they can be openly gay and accepted because of the stereotypes we were discussing?

 

[OniAu]

Im out at work. But only through general conversation , i just corrected people when they asked " your partner what does she do? "


Id imagine the biggest fear of a not out footballer is the below

Media
Fans
General Public

Id find it hard to believe team mates dont know or are against it. 44 guys on a list are going to know , likewise if theres one homophobe , theyd be called out or weeded out pretty quickly.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Wouldn't surprise me if the players who are gay don't want to be the first one because not only of the potential fan abuse but also having to be head of the media craziness.

If I were gay and thinking of coming out I would want about 5 others so I dont have to answer useless questions from Barrett, Caro, BT and others.

 

[tandino]

But why is there a much much higher percentage of lesbians compared with general population in the female football codes?

According to who?

 

[edgie]

you don't have to be directly homophobic to someone to be homophobic

there's a lot more to human interaction than someone saying slurs to your face to let you know you're not welcome or wanted etc

plenty of less obvious ways to make people feel unwelcome or unsafe that don't involve outright open hostility

you're getting there with the alienating part though

I mean, isn't constant talk of banging girls, kinda that?

 

[Gralin]

I mean, isn't constant talk of banging girls, kinda that?

i feel like you're really close to getting it but just can't quite grasp it

 

[edgie]

man there are plenty of super masculine gays out there, not everyone is a twink or femboy

there's a lot of stereotyping going on here, which of course is part of the problem they would have to deal with as you say

its easy for people to equate lesbian in sport = acting like a man

that ties into the s**t views of masculinity that exist in society

But most gays, aren't super masculine. They just aren't. The stereotypes exist, because they are reinforced by reality, and there shouldn't be anything wrong in acknowledging that.

Why does Mandonna have a greater gay fanbase than Metallica?

 

[phantom13]

Ok, I'm up for leaning if you've more to say?

I mean, I would be surprised if people were directly homophobic to their team mates. That's what I am saying. But constant talk of hetero experiences that in my experience is rife at footy clubs, is alienating.

Im pretty sure weve discussed this before.

In the modern age there isnt alot of overt homophobia (some would argue there is none and some would be horrible wrong) but it is fair to say that overt and blatant homophobia is still pretty standard. Angie Greene (Daugher of hawks legend Russel) runs an organisation called Stand Up which basically goes to local clubs to point out how damaging casual homophobic language can be to young (or some older) gay or sexually confused men.

"Thats gay" etc etc etc.

Thats not rampantly heterosexual, thats homophobic it just doesnt fall under the homophobic category most think of.

It happens and those players either drift away from the game or hide their sexuality.

Also to anyone saying "nobody cares" thats just not true. There is still some blatant homophobes who will abuse the first and the last openly gay player but if you want to know why it really matters, read some of the young men who replied to Josh Cavallo when he came out or Isaac Humphries when he came out. Representation matters and seeing a gay player in any sport at the top level is a barrier broken for young men. If the AFL isnt doing all it can to provide a safe space for this to happen then they should.

 

[The Educator]

maybe because its one place they can be openly gay and accepted because of the stereotypes we were discussing?

I am sure there is a "belonging" factor in women's football just as there, at least at the amateur club level, a sense of not being welcome for gay males

I also have no doubt that there is a genuine correlation with gay women and competitive sport and inverse correlation for men.

The correlation goes way way beyond Australian football and even team sports.

 

[Troopsy]

Knowing the AFL they would probably force the player to do media conferences that would include answering uncomfortable questions from the press.

 

[edgie]

i feel like you're really close to getting it but just can't quite grasp it

I feel like I don't know what other ways you are talking about to make someone feel unwelcome, beyond the direct discussions of sexual activity and behaviour, and you're avoiding answering by making vague statements that help no one.

 

[The Educator]

Knowing the AFL they will probably force....

Groans

 

[edgie]

Yeah I can see this. A lot of "toxic masculinity" as they used to say.

Toxic masculinity is about more than who you like to bone.

I've known gays that exhibit other trademarks of toxic masculinity.

 

[Freshwater]

According to who?

General population.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Honestly, I'd be surprised if it didn't simply turn out like it did in the last season of Ted Lasso.

Entirely positive.

The biggest issue is that really, at the end of the day, it shouldn't matter. So the 'coming out party' window has probably closed.

Someday a player may openly mention his 'partner' and it's a male, and aside from the initial news story, absolutely nobody will care afterwards.
It will then be treated the same as racism if players or supporters attempt to use verbal slurs against them.

 

[Freshwater]

maybe because its one place they can be openly gay and accepted because of the stereotypes we were discussing?

I really don’t think that is the case. They just love the game and everything about it, I have known a few. They have loved the game before their sexuality was even a thing to them.

 

[Occidental]

Ok, I'm up for leaning if you've more to say?

I mean, I would be surprised if people were directly homophobic to their team mates. That's what I am saying. But constant talk of hetero experiences that in my experience is rife at footy clubs, is alienating.

Wait for the Brownlow. The AFL & Media have purposefully turned it into a Red Carpet parade of wives and girlfriends. It’s the most overt hetero thing I’ve ever seen.
Being “normal” and acting in AFL expectations is to have a glamorous female on your arm.
I’m straight… but even I wonder how all that Brownlow WAG stuff started and why it persists.

 

[Strange Cat]

Remeber BT homophobic abuse of Harry Taylor’s wave to his kids …and you wonder why there would be a hesitation on the players part in coming out publically the media dinosaurs like BT and Co would be saying ignorant shit constantly with the extra media scrutiny on the player.

Don’t blame them one bit after that incident

 

[tandino]

General population.

Well I won't bore you with what I think about the general population.

 

[demondavey]

Wouldn't surprise me if the players who are gay don't want to be the first one because not only of the potential fan abuse but also having to be head of the media craziness.

If I were gay and thinking of coming out I would want about 5 others so I dont have to answer useless questions from Barrett, Caro, BT and others.

BT would have a conniption.

 

[Gralin]

I really don’t think that is the case. They just love the game and everything about it, I have known a few. They have loved the game before their sexuality was even a thing to them.

a certain % of people like sports
a certain % of people like contact sports

but generally its only with gay people that we link their sexuality to whether they do or don't like a sport

why is that?

 

[demondavey]

Wait for the Brownlow. The AFL & Media have purposefully turned it into a Red Carpet parade of wives and girlfriends. It’s the most overt hetero thing I’ve ever seen.
Being “normal” and acting in AFL expectations is to have a glamorous female on your arm.
I’m straight… but even I wonder how all that Brownlow WAG stuff started and why it persists.

And 9/10 of the women look the same.

 

[edgie]

Im pretty sure weve discussed this before.

In the modern age there isnt alot of overt homophobia (some would argue there is none and some would be horrible wrong) but it is fair to say that overt and blatant homophobia is still pretty standard. Angie Greene (Daugher of hawks legend Russel) runs an organisation called Stand Up which basically goes to local clubs to point out how damaging casual homophobic language can be to young (or some older) gay or sexually confused men.

"Thats gay" etc etc etc.

Thats not rampantly heterosexual, thats homophobic it just doesnt fall under the homophobic cat...

In my experience, this is rife, but once an actual openly homosexual is present, it stops.

Now, I don't know if that stop is genuine learning or just biting a tongue, I do know that the cart is leading the horse there, and it shouldn't take someone having to announce their sexuality for it to change, but shit... to me it's progress. Slow progress, but it's better than it was and it should only continue to get better going forward. People are realising their language and expressions are wrong and inappropriate.

I feel when it comes to a dozen dudes all talking shit about their sex lives, they realise the same things.

 

[phantom13]

Remeber BT homophobic abuse of Harry Taylor’s wave to his kids …and you wonder why there would be a hesitation on the players part in coming out publically the media dinosaurs like BT and Co would be saying ignorant s**t constantly with the extra media scrutiny on the player.

Don’t blame them one bit after that incident

And absolutely no one said a word about it.

Thats not even casual homophobia which we almost all turn a blind eye too.

 

[phantom13]

In my experience, this is rife, but once an actual openly homosexual is present, it stops.

Now, I don't know if that stop is genuine learning or just biting a tongue, I do know that the cart is leading the horse there, and it shouldn't take someone having to announce their sexuality for it to change, but s**t... to me it's progress. Slow progress, but it's better than it was and it should only continue to get better going forward. People are realising their language and expressions are wrong and inappropriate.

I feel when it comes to a dozen dudes all talking s**t about their sex lives, they realise the same things.

Yeh in my experience human beings especially men, dont learn THAT quickly.

More importantly if no one is open, then no one changes, no one changes the environment remains homophobic and no one feels comfortable coming out. So you can see that even from your example we dont have a safe and secure environment for gay men to be out and proud.