Another factor for the Hawks is 4 games in Launceston.
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Toast The Big 4 all getting over a million people through the gate in season 2024
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5minutes_of_Dew
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Hawks had huge turn outs for MCG games this year.
The only thing that reduced their overall crowd number was the 4 home games in Tassie, which Hawthorn do extremely well out of financially anyway.
The "big 4" is a dead concept and has been for years. I'd rather be West Coast, Geelong or Hawthorn in the AFL era as far as success and financial stability goes.
The only thing that reduced their overall crowd number was the 4 home games in Tassie, which Hawthorn do extremely well out of financially anyway.
The "big 4" is a dead concept and has been for years. I'd rather be West Coast, Geelong or Hawthorn in the AFL era as far as success and financial stability goes.
Seems the away games don’t tell a full story due to the Big 4 barely travelling and having two sets of fans going to a game.
Looks like there is a new Big 4
Looks like there is a new Big 4
This is true.
Hawthorn would have surpassed 1,000,000 easily (despite being 0-5) if we didn't play 4 home games in Tasmania. As we would have in every season between 2008 to 2017. But that's on us.
Hawthorn drew 64,000 to their 9 MCG games, with 6 of those games in Hawthorn’s top 30 ever home and away crowds (and 4 in the top 20)
As I said in the attendance thread a strong Hawthorn (the fifth Beatle) is fantastic for the Big 4 as it turns 55,000 to 60,000 fixtures into 70,000 plus. This yo yo is far more than any other club.
Hopefully we will see this from next year with return MCG fixtures against Essendon and potentially Geelong, Collingwood and Carlton.
A strong Hawthorn = 4 to 6 extra 65,000 plus attendances vs Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Geelong
Piggy Smalls
Piggy’s in the middle
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Post home game attendances. At least 30% of those heads on the OP have been counted twice.
sherb
Hall of Famer
As a non-Victorian I've never bought into the concept. Regardless of that, I agree with you, however valid it may have been back in the day it is definitely outdated in the modern day AFL competition.
There are 6 big clubs.
Collingwood , West Coast, Essendon Carlton, Adelaide and Richmond.
5 medium clubs.
Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane
5 small clubs, Port Adelaide, St Kilda, Melbourne, Bulldogs and North Melbourne
2 micro clubs.
Gold Coast, GWS,
Collingwood , West Coast, Essendon Carlton, Adelaide and Richmond.
5 medium clubs.
Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane
5 small clubs, Port Adelaide, St Kilda, Melbourne, Bulldogs and North Melbourne
2 micro clubs.
Gold Coast, GWS,
It looks as though these numbers are inclusive of Gather Round which are supposed to be neutral and not counted as Home or Away games. Both Richmond and Freo has these added in as home game attendances. Freo had a game at Adelaide Oval against Carlton which drew 43158 fans. Richmond had to play St Kilda at Norwood where we got a capacity crowd of 9425. Take these off the total and Richmond had 523405 for their 11 home games and Freo had 518617. So yes, the Big 4 is still the Big 4.
Osho
The significance of insignificance is significant.
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Are the AFL sport's creationists pretending to be evolutionists?
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Osho
The significance of insignificance is significant.
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So was there something in Dimma's much derided comment abt Marvel all those years ago?
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we can thank Dusty for pushing us over the line
SSSSSS
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Our crowds are pretty good considering we're playing our first night game this week and got shafted on the Sunday twilight games more times I can count this year.
catstorm
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Adelaide based on what?
Pedestrian membership numbers that don't even break 70,000 ever, 7th in average home attendance, revenue that sits at 7th from last year.
So, I'm really struggling to see any metric that would put Adelaide as a "Big" club, enlighten me.
Thats the key point.
Further, as Lavender Bushranger said, the AFL build the fixture around drawing maximum crowds and this certainly helps the big Victorian clubs draw 1M+. Irrespective, they are the biggest drawing clubs and would still likely draw 1M+ without these additional supporting layers in their fixtures.
That said, it’s a bit rich that it was purported in the same post that Essendon were fed absurd handouts when it was in large part making decisions consistent with its ethos that the big clubs in Victoria in part drive the commercial strength of the game overall. And, the TV revenues in particular are driven by the big clubs fixtures and success, subsidising the growth of the expansion clubs in large part. And this is a good thing!
Finally, Essendon would’ve survived without whatever handouts they received (?) thanks to the support of its high end supporters who continue to quietly invest significant financial support into the club via its capital infrastructure programs. Its’ a club that in fact is currently gutter crawling commercially which reinforces its ability to operate to a satisfactory level without on field success or commercial capability of its commercial team.
I posted this in July - but Hawthorn and Adelaide are basically the same size across all metrics.
Obviously Adelaide is probably more concentrated in South Australia whilst the Hawks are broader.
Hawthorn v Adelaide (to July 2024)
Facebook: 333,000 v 288,000 (45,000 Hawthorn way)
Twitter: 104,400 v 160,000 (55,600 Adelaide way)
IG: 243,000 v 187,000 (56,000 Hawthorn way)
Tik Tok: 202,400 v 109,300 (93,100 Hawthorn way)
YouTube: 23,400 v 24,300 (900 Adelaide way)
Club Membership: 80,698 v 68,536 (12,162 Hawthorn way)
Plus google interest (this is the five years before the Hawthorn spike in July and August)
Looking at all clubs in the league, I’m not sure any two clubs are as even across the sum of all metrics
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As I've said in the AFL attendance thread, judging club size by home and away attendance is flawed.
For example, a St Kilda or W Bulldogs drawing 800,000 is far more impressive than an Essendon of Carlton drawing 1 million fans through the gates solely because those clubs only get single games (at Docklands) vs the big clubs and often have to travel to Tasmania, Geelong, Canberra, Darwin and the Gold Coast.
The Victorian clubs are really staggered into the haves, the have nots and the hybrids (Geelong)
catstorm
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So these are arbitrary numbers that mean nothing in isolation.
Geelong is not a "Big" club, and to be clear this is me being serious Geelong is a mid-strong club.
Yet if I look at your numbers Geelong beats both Adelaide and Hawthorn in 3/6 metrics.
Facebook: 251,500 (less then both)
Twitter: 91,000 (Less then both)
IG: 246,000 (More than both)
Tiktok: 226,000 (More than both)
Youtube: 20,000 (Less than both)
Members: 82,155 (More than both)
What exactly makes Adelaide or Hawthorn I guess a "Big" club, based on the numbers provided?
True, and Geelong had the added benefit of being the reigning premier last year - which helps boost a lot of those numbers (at the same time Hawthorn’s membership growth has slowed to a crawl since the mid to late 2010’s)
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I agree, that’s true.
However I’d also suggest measuring based on membership and social media numbers is also in large part flawed as these metrics are largely influenced by on field success, in particular recent success.
As I said in another post, social media numbers are geared to on field success as evidenced by Geelongs relative strength in Instagram and TikTok which are the latest two social media platforms to hit the landscape. I’d suggests the Cats flag in 2022 was the catalyst for a big spike in these platforms in particular.
The Cats are also unique, a significant part of its membership is based outside Geelong. It’s a regional club, and a broadly supported national club with strong support in Melbourne as well.
amos
Mozzie Bites FFC CEO
Wonder what the impact was due to the fixturing of 2024 Thursday and Friday night games? Richmond did well with only two of the coveted slots.
8 – Carlton, Collingwood
7 – Brisbane
6 - Adelaide
5 - Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs, Sydney Swans, Melbourne
4 – Essendon, Geelong, St Kilda
3 – Fremantle
2 – Richmond, North Melbourne
1 – GWS Giants, Gold Coast Suns
0 – Hawthorn, West Coast Eagles
8 – Carlton, Collingwood
7 – Brisbane
6 - Adelaide
5 - Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs, Sydney Swans, Melbourne
4 – Essendon, Geelong, St Kilda
3 – Fremantle
2 – Richmond, North Melbourne
1 – GWS Giants, Gold Coast Suns
0 – Hawthorn, West Coast Eagles
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Incorrect, being fixtured to play Hawks in Launceston and Melbourne in Alice Springs does affect the “overall” crowd numbers.
Which is why the average home ground attendance is far more accurate.
Dockers sit 3rd on home ground attendance (have been in the top 4 most years of late) and are 3rd on the most profitable list. This likely means our quoted membership numbers are actual full fee paying, game attending people - not someone’s goldfish counted under a pet membership !
It’s a new dawn, crank up your AC/DC and jump on the Purple Train !! (Wait…..sorry… train is parked up for repairs at the mo….maybe jump on next year !!
)Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Incorrect, being fixtured to play Hawks in Launceston and Melbourne in Alice Springs does affect the “overall” crowd numbers.
Which is why the average home ground attendance is far more accurate.
Dockers sit 3rd on home ground attendance (have been in the top 4 most years of late) and are 3rd on the most profitable list. This likely means our quoted membership numbers are actual full fee paying, game attending people - not someone’s goldfish counted under a pet membership !
It’s a new dawn, crank up your AC/DC and jump on the Purple Train !! (Wait…..sorry… train is parked up for repairs at the mo….maybe jump on next year !!
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Fingers crossed that once Tassie comes into the AFL Hawthorn AND Fremantle will be closer to drawing 1 million through the gates. The lack of MCG exposure makes a Fremantle of the Vic clubs selling home games interstate
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