- Apr 18, 2005
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Why does Shiel deserve to be playing? Didn’t he also **** off?
How did the AFL get the Giants so right?!
- Thread starter Tzatziki_Man
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He conducts himself in a high manner as opposed to some of the others. Wanted to return to melb but put in a lot of work through the hard years.
In all fairness have been to 3 prelims and choked
So could have had 3 I guess
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- Apr 18, 2005
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Yeah but he doesn’t deserve to be there
Less the AFL getting GWS right, rather GWS sorting their shit out and doing it right themselves -
My 2 cents based on last weekend
From what I can tell the club have done really well engaging players families and trying to engage their community
I got a ticket for the prelim because my good friend is a GWS member (she worked for them early on) - There was a fans meet up at The Imperial on Spring St before the game. They gave people who had a ticket to the game and a club membership for any other team a free beer and a piece of GWS merch to get them on their bandwagon. Steven Coniglio was around for a bit too so obviously the club were right behind it. I sat in the Giants cheersquad behind the goals. Was one of the funnest games of footy I've been to in ages (probably helped having no real stake in the game but the atmosphere in the last ten mins was crazy)
My 2 cents based on last weekend
From what I can tell the club have done really well engaging players families and trying to engage their community
I got a ticket for the prelim because my good friend is a GWS member (she worked for them early on) - There was a fans meet up at The Imperial on Spring St before the game. They gave people who had a ticket to the game and a club membership for any other team a free beer and a piece of GWS merch to get them on their bandwagon. Steven Coniglio was around for a bit too so obviously the club were right behind it. I sat in the Giants cheersquad behind the goals. Was one of the funnest games of footy I've been to in ages (probably helped having no real stake in the game but the atmosphere in the last ten mins was crazy)
On field its all worked.
Really though the AFL based a club in Western Sydney to attract new fans.
The reality is the giants still average less to a home game than even the Sun's.
So I don't think the AFL got it 'so right'
I think the club itself has built a good culture and mentality within it, nothing to do with the AFL outside of the concessions they were given, they've made themselves a good football side.
The AFL's main aim for the club is still very much a work in progress.
Really though the AFL based a club in Western Sydney to attract new fans.
The reality is the giants still average less to a home game than even the Sun's.
So I don't think the AFL got it 'so right'
I think the club itself has built a good culture and mentality within it, nothing to do with the AFL outside of the concessions they were given, they've made themselves a good football side.
The AFL's main aim for the club is still very much a work in progress.
GROTTO
TheBrownDog
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Choco was basically the coach at GWS. Thats besides the point, appointing Sheedy was a masterstroke, the publicity and media always put him and GWS on the AFL map.
I wish the Crows had a board/off field set up that was half as good as the Giants
The Crows main strength is also it's biggest weakness - A footy mad city who will turn up regardless of results. It has created complacency and it now shows
GWS don't have the luxury of complacency so they are crossing every T and doting every I to make sure the club runs as well as it can
The crowds will come, it's a generational thing, but the club is in a good place
The Crows main strength is also it's biggest weakness - A footy mad city who will turn up regardless of results. It has created complacency and it now shows
GWS don't have the luxury of complacency so they are crossing every T and doting every I to make sure the club runs as well as it can
The crowds will come, it's a generational thing, but the club is in a good place
Right people with the right attitude and culture.
Not just Sheeds but Gubby Allan, Dave Matthews and especially the Lamberts. Throw in Al McConnell and the basics are all there.
One thing I will say is that Breakfast Point was an absolute stroke of genius. From what I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) but the Gold Coast billeted all their players out to local families - spread all over the place, and somewhat isolated from each other. What we did was put them all in an apartment complex at Breakfast Point where they all lived together (or just down the corridor from each other) and that helped forge a really tight bond with each other: they were all in it together and felt “part of something” - and that’s where the Lamberts came into their own, looking after them, teaching them to cook, clean and basically look after themselves.
All our new recruits still spend their first year sharing with each other at Brekky Point, bonding and becoming mates.
We also got up and running quicker with our facilities at Tom Wills Oval - a converted golf driving range. GC were still in demountables for years after us. The permanent facilities helped retain players because they could see we had a solid foundation and future after the training on various community and school ovals (and baseball diamond at Blacktown) and using wheelie bins full of ice as their ice baths etc. Those who might have though “I’m not hanging around here with these sorts of s#*t facilities” ended up staying because the club environment developed quickly.
We did a lot of things right that the GC didn’t seem to and it worked.
Right people
Right attitude
Huge emphasis on creating the culture we have.
Not just Sheeds but Gubby Allan, Dave Matthews and especially the Lamberts. Throw in Al McConnell and the basics are all there.
One thing I will say is that Breakfast Point was an absolute stroke of genius. From what I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) but the Gold Coast billeted all their players out to local families - spread all over the place, and somewhat isolated from each other. What we did was put them all in an apartment complex at Breakfast Point where they all lived together (or just down the corridor from each other) and that helped forge a really tight bond with each other: they were all in it together and felt “part of something” - and that’s where the Lamberts came into their own, looking after them, teaching them to cook, clean and basically look after themselves.
All our new recruits still spend their first year sharing with each other at Brekky Point, bonding and becoming mates.
We also got up and running quicker with our facilities at Tom Wills Oval - a converted golf driving range. GC were still in demountables for years after us. The permanent facilities helped retain players because they could see we had a solid foundation and future after the training on various community and school ovals (and baseball diamond at Blacktown) and using wheelie bins full of ice as their ice baths etc. Those who might have though “I’m not hanging around here with these sorts of s#*t facilities” ended up staying because the club environment developed quickly.
We did a lot of things right that the GC didn’t seem to and it worked.
Right people
Right attitude
Huge emphasis on creating the culture we have.
Last edited:
Ghost Patrol
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- #38
I thought GC inherited all the old Brisbane Bears facilities, including the stadium at Cararra?
Mofra
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- #39
Yep - a lot went right.
It's probably a little unfair comparing them constantly to the Suns though, given the Giants had more concessions and acceptable facilities from day 1. As mentioned earlier, they took the right mature players (esp. Davis and Ward) and by not having Clayton they have drafted well since inception.
That's totally untrue in regards to Treloar. Have heard him speak both at club functions and in the media about his time at the Giants, and he couldn't have been more effusive in his praise of the club in the way it developed it's players, and comaradarie amongst the young players in their formative years, despite having appalling training facilities and regular 100+ point beltings, and how character building these early experiences have been.
Ex-test cricketer Gavin Robinson on SEN this morning also gave great gift in-sights, saying that as a non AFL following person, he was converted by hearing Kevin Sheedy speak at a Parramatta function, so he called 2 weeks later asking if he could help. He spoke about the closeness and resilience of the young playing group despite copping 26 100+ drubbings in the first few years, how the club is growing its support through extensive school and community outreach visits etc.
As for the Gold Coast, it should've been better still, as the GC has quite a strong footy culture for a non heartland location (unlike Western Sydney) e.g the Southport Sharks are biggest richest club outside the VFL/SANFL/WAFL (in fact it's bigger than some clubs in these state leagues). Unfortunately they've done just about everything wrong as they possibly could. To give just one small example - for repeated seasons they overlooked a bloke tearing it up for Southport, right there under their noses. Eventually Brisbane drafted this local GC boy, Zorko and now with multiple b&f's the rest is history.
At least now, the Suns finally have decent training facilities and can hopefully, providing they can now retain a majority of their quality draftees, reset for the future.
Because footy fans are morons and the AFL make millions out of playing them.
They know how they think, and what they pay for.
So it's pretty easy really.
This week GWS and Gold Coast on other ends of the AFL ladder.
Similar beginnings to each other except GWS came in the league later.
What have GWS done so right that would have the Gold Coast heirarchy past and present trying to figure out how they have go it so wrong.
Was it the leaders they got in early like Ward and Davis as opposed to Gary Ablett and Brown. Scully would have brought a good attitude to the place.
Not having to sack any coaches. Starting with an experienced coach Sheedy/Williams instead of McKenna (GCs best coach to date)
Both teams have had players telling the club they are leaving. Have GWS not been reamed when trading them. They seem to have done well out of Treloar leaving as an example.
Richmond have raided the GC admittedly but Collingwood have raided the GWS.
Do players go to the GC just for a paycheck but nutters like Heath Shaw have heart and soul in every minute of the game.
I would have thought Gold Coast offered a more attractive living situation than Western Sydney with its beach and surf but alot of their stars have been re-signing.
Was Falou better than Hunt? (only kidding)
It must be a question burning in the Gold Coasts mind this week. Any suggestions??
Similar beginnings to each other except GWS came in the league later.
What have GWS done so right that would have the Gold Coast heirarchy past and present trying to figure out how they have go it so wrong.
Was it the leaders they got in early like Ward and Davis as opposed to Gary Ablett and Brown. Scully would have brought a good attitude to the place.
Not having to sack any coaches. Starting with an experienced coach Sheedy/Williams instead of McKenna (GCs best coach to date)
Both teams have had players telling the club they are leaving. Have GWS not been reamed when trading them. They seem to have done well out of Treloar leaving as an example.
Richmond have raided the GC admittedly but Collingwood have raided the GWS.
Do players go to the GC just for a paycheck but nutters like Heath Shaw have heart and soul in every minute of the game.
I would have thought Gold Coast offered a more attractive living situation than Western Sydney with its beach and surf but alot of their stars have been re-signing.
Was Falou better than Hunt? (only kidding)
It must be a question burning in the Gold Coasts mind this week. Any suggestions??
Which I think you’ll find were demountables. Their new permanent home was only opened 2 years ago.
From their website (20 January 2017)...
GOLD Coast is just two weeks away from moving into its $22 million state-of-the-art training and administration facility.
The entire club is expected to be in its new home by February 6.
Although just a 200m walk from their Carrara offices, the new facility is a world apart.
Since being given the licence in 2008 to become the AFL's 17th club, Gold Coast staff have worked out of demountable buildings and players have lifted weights in a tin shed.
That will no longer be the case.
In terms of player retention, good facilities is a huge issue and for them it was long overdue.
The got better people in
I reckon Gary Ablett Jnr is a good personification of what the Suns did wrong. Getting the mercenary "my reputation is more important than this employer" types in.
Rodney Eade is another example. I am sure he is a useful guy to have around an established club but went straight into reputation protection mode as soon as things weren't working out
FInally, they seemed to go with head office bureacrats at start up rather than people from successful football club cultures
Compare that to the Giants. The players they traded in in the first few years were "heart and soul" types. Most of them are still there now (i.e. Davis, Ward, Shaw, Mummy etc) are likely a big reason they were able to get the younger guys on board the "building a club" mission.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Primarily it was the quality of the preselections and how they’ve leveraged trades well.
Example A.
Treloar>McCarthy/Hopper/Kennedy
McCarthy & Pick 7>Taranto
Kennedy>͏S͏a͏m Taylor
Example A.
Treloar>McCarthy/Hopper/Kennedy
McCarthy & Pick 7>Taranto
Kennedy>͏S͏a͏m Taylor
Not even close.
We spent a large chunk of our early days having team meetings in a disused dance rehearsal room at Rooty Hill RSL, (the younger boys having to be escorted through the pokies and bar section because they weren’t actually allowed to be there) training on the baseball diamond at Blacktown and then a succession of school and community ovals all over Western Sydney.
I remember seeing photos of the boys at Gipps Road (Greystanes) standing in wheelie bins full of ice because we didn’t have anything even resembling a proper ice bath.
It took a couple of years to get our permanent home up and running.
I don’t know what your definition of “acceptable facilities” is but a 3 different training grounds a week and a wheelie bin full of ice wouldn’t cut it at most clubs.
- Banned
- #48
"why were they given around twice as many picks as us" might be up there on the questions list
Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Bringing in bad influences to lead a young squad like Hunt/Ablett/Brown/Brennan/Bock ather then GWS picking up guys like Mcdonald/Power/Ward/Davis ect.
G/C picked up some talent but clubs were happy to let that talent go. They were not essential leaders bar the dogs losing Harbrow.
GWS put more emphasis on culture and landed more of their top picks as well in the early days. They lost some good talent but had enough to keep most of them together with the goal of a premiership.
You saw talented players like May/Bennell suffer with a lack of true leadership at the suns. Both could be multiple AA in terms of talent. Melbourne are spewing with Mays year in terms of off field and injury hasn't helped. We know Bennell rotted away and his calf was stuffed. What's the worst at GWS? Whitfield was given the riot act, they let McCarthy walk rather then bend over for him and try to work with his demands
So mix of GWS nailing top picks and picking up role models over Suns in the early years picking up gun players who clubs were ok to lose and them not being the players a young club needs
Also suns management is the pits and one of the worst in the league.
G/C picked up some talent but clubs were happy to let that talent go. They were not essential leaders bar the dogs losing Harbrow.
GWS put more emphasis on culture and landed more of their top picks as well in the early days. They lost some good talent but had enough to keep most of them together with the goal of a premiership.
You saw talented players like May/Bennell suffer with a lack of true leadership at the suns. Both could be multiple AA in terms of talent. Melbourne are spewing with Mays year in terms of off field and injury hasn't helped. We know Bennell rotted away and his calf was stuffed. What's the worst at GWS? Whitfield was given the riot act, they let McCarthy walk rather then bend over for him and try to work with his demands
So mix of GWS nailing top picks and picking up role models over Suns in the early years picking up gun players who clubs were ok to lose and them not being the players a young club needs
Also suns management is the pits and one of the worst in the league.
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