Analysis How different would today's AFL landscape be if the 1989 merger between Fitzroy and Footscray went ahead, and would that club have been succesful ?

[glengowan]

I do not think it ignored at all. Well not by us that followed footy for this long. It was just about the biggest story in footy after South relocation to Sydney. It went the right way. If supporters do not want a merger it should never happen and it did not as a result. North and Fitzroy is the one that seems ignored and Bears situation more ignored and lost in the wash of Fitzroy out of the league. I think mergers at local footy make more sense.
What happended to the identity of Woodville annd West Torrens in SANFL? Those names of clubs seemed lost much like University in this league is mostly lost in the wash and mentioned as a footnote in history.

Perhaps if Woodville and West Torrens had’ve used their original club names in the naming of the newly formed merged club and brought with it club memorabilia, honour boards, life members and such to their club rooms, they wouldn’t have vanished into thin air like University?

 

[footyfan1978]

Perhaps if Woodville and West Torrens had’ve used their original club names in the naming of the newly formed merged club and brought with it club memorabilia, honour boards, life members and such to their club rooms, they wouldn’t have vanished into thin air like University?

I think that would be right As someone not from there it like they both vanished.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think that would be right As someone not from there it like they both vanished.

The funny thing is, had both held out for another 5 or 6 more years, both would of survived and thrived with their own pubs and pokie machines.

Saying that. Just look at the other SANFL clubs. Port Adelaide, Glenelg, west Adelaide, south Adelaide all have pubs and pokies at their grounds.

Central Districts made grand finals in 1995-6 and made 12 grand finals in a row from 2000 to 2011 because of the pokie revenue to buy and scout for players

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Dogs made preliminary finals in 1992, 1997 and 1998.

I don't think the merged Fitzroy / Footscray team would of won 1992 or 1998. Definately 1997.

Probably would of won the 1997 flag.

98 is very possible for both if we consider North enjoying more behinds than goals.

Should not have lost to Geelong/West Coast Qualfying Finals in 94/99 given the position they were in. Would have been there again. Merged team probably capitalise there. Winning flag probably not though.

 

[glengowan]

I think that would be right As someone not from there it like they both vanished.

I think it is more a case of how much Victorian heads are up their own arse.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

One of the most and ignored sliding door moments of the last vestiges of the VFL era was the controversial proposal and merger of The Roys and Footscray in 1989 ..

There was still some very good players playing for Fitzroy at the time, and Footscray too


I often think Fitzroy fans would have been much better off with this team than the eventual Brisbane Bears merger (least they would have gotten to see most of their games live in Victoria

But the Doggies fans fought tooth and nail to save their Sons of the Scray, so I doubt many Dogs fans would have supported the newly formed club

If this went through, it's arguable that other Vic clubs mergers happened, so it's probably for the best it didn't.

Why? It would be a better league if there were 8 Vic clubs rather than 10.

If had reduced them further we could have had two more additional teams in an 18 team league, not considering complexities of financing/stadiums etc., maybe Tasmania/NT/third WA team. Reckon that would be better for the league.

 

[Feraligatr]

If it had gone ahead I think it would have encouraged other VFL teams to have merged to possibly super clubs.
North Carlton
North Essendon
Melbourne Tigers
Richmond Saints
Probably the only club that was safe would have been Collingwood, although they did offer Fitzroy a Deal, Collingwood seconds would be called Fitzroy.

Collingwood were in trouble in the late 90s. Eddie McGuire was the one who turned the magpies around.

If there was a merging mania Collingwood might not have been completely home and hosed.

 

[Feraligatr]

Not many of us around but there were some die hard Brisbane Bears supporters who were disappointed at the merge- Bears just starting to forge their (hard fought) identity. I grew up supporting the Bears and was at the first home game.

I wish the Bears had of had a chance without the merger. I think they had finally forged an identity and it was clicking on field. When you look at the players they had on their list that went on to win premiership after the merger they would have been competitive for at least the same period of time the Brisbane Lions where.

Personally, I think if Fitzroy had relocated to somewhere like Canberra or Hobart, it would have been better overall for keeping the Fitzroy identity. The only real thing that changes then is the name Fitzroy to the new location.

 

[Tiger2709]

If it had gone ahead I think it would have encouraged other VFL teams to have merged to possibly super clubs.
North Carlton
North Essendon
Melbourne Tigers
Richmond Saints
Probably the only club that was safe would have been Collingwood, although they did offer Fitzroy a Deal, Collingwood seconds would be called Fitzroy.

Collingwood was on the verge of bankruptcy, as were many teams, so not safe at all

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Doubt they would have created a superclub.. Would have gotten a suger hit but would have p1ssed off many fans who wouldnt have embraced the merger and geographically at the time Fitzroy was a very different market to that of Footscray and the western suburbs. Now Fitzroy & the Inner West are heavily populated by the 'woke' and alternative I am sure a passionate niche fan base would evolve but not sure how sustainable it would have been long term.

 

[tess]

Collingwood was on the verge of bankruptcy, as were many teams, so not safe at all

True, but The AFL did not help Collingwood out in any financial way. The Collingwood supporters pulled together and got Collingwood back in the Black. Although it looked grim Collingwood was never in any real danger of folding with or without Eddie.

 

[peetoo]

If it had gone ahead I think it would have encouraged other VFL teams to have merged to possibly super clubs.
North Carlton
North Essendon
Melbourne Tigers
Richmond Saints
Probably the only club that was safe would have been Collingwood, although they did offer Fitzroy a Deal, Collingwood seconds would be called Fitzroy.

We have six super clubs now, no merge

 

[Roylion]

although they did offer Fitzroy a Deal, Collingwood seconds would be called Fitzroy.

That was 1992 when Collingwood thought they had Fitzroy over a barrel. At least according to Scot Palmer. And while that what's they were saying publicly, behind the scenes they were offering a little but more, than just their seconds being called Fitzroy

Coliingwood offered much more than that in 1996 when they again offered to merge with Fitzroy. Their offer (made in writing) was the name "Fitzroy-Collingwood Magpies", the home strip was to be in Collingwood colours , the away strip in Fitzroy colours, Fitzroy's debt was to be paid off and $500,000 worth of insurance was to be paid to Fitzroy, if the Collingwood members knocked back the merger proposal, as happened with the Hawthorn members in the Melbourne Hawks merger.

Fitzroy knocked back both offers.

 

[Air_Chester]

If it had gone ahead I think it would have encouraged other VFL teams to have merged to possibly super clubs.
North Carlton
North Essendon
Melbourne Tigers
Richmond Saints
Probably the only club that was safe would have been Collingwood, although they did offer Fitzroy a Deal, Collingwood seconds would be called Fitzroy.

True, but The AFL did not help Collingwood out in any financial way. The Collingwood supporters pulled together and got Collingwood back in the Black. Although it looked grim Collingwood was never in any real danger of folding with or without Eddie.

Incredibly disingenuous statements.

To imply Collingwood were “the only club that was safe” because “the fans would’ve spent money to keep us alive” is not only ridiculous egotism, but it doesn’t change the facts - Collingwood were operating at a loss. As a business, they were failing.

There was nothing unique about Collingwood that made them any different to anyone else.

 

[maskmcgee]

Had the Dogs still not won a grand final since 1952 the answers might be different.

 

[Feraligatr]

It is an interesting topic to think about. I would hate to be the person who has to make the decisions but as a hypothetical I have fun thinking about it.

Canberra Lions - everything the same as Fitzroy, just playing home games in Canberra with two home game in Melbourne a year.

Footscray & Ballarat Bulldogs. Similar to the St George - Illawarra Dragons. Split the home games between both Ballarat and Melbourne. Nothing changes except adding the Ballarat name and giving regional Victoria another team.

Gold Coast Kangaroos. Same as the Canberra Lions deal with 2 home games in Melbourne.

 

[Roylion]

It is an interesting topic to think about. I would hate to be the person who has to make the decisions but as a hypothetical I have fun thinking about it.

Canberra Lions - everything the same as Fitzroy, just playing home games in Canberra with two home game in Melbourne a year.

Fitzroy would have eventually done that with their late 1995 proposal to play seven home games in Canberra from 1996 onwards. However the AFL knocked it back because they wanted to keep the number of clubs in the AFL at 16, when Port Adelaide was due to come in.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I don’t think the landscape today would be any different, really. Footscray would be the Lions and Brisbane would be the Bears. That aside, pretty much the same.

Bears probably would have won the Three Peat too tbh.

 

[Dazb86]

Had the Dogs still not won a grand final since 1952 the answers might be different.

No chance

If I cared about flags I would be following Carlton.

 

[peetoo]

Brisbane lions have 3 flags, hawks and dees have 5

 

[pz5151]

That was 1992 when Collingwood thought they had Fitzroy over a barrel. At least according to Scot Palmer. And while that what's they were saying publicly, behind the scenes they were offering a little but more, than just their seconds being called Fitzroy

Coliingwood offered much more than that in 1996 when they again offered to merge with Fitzroy. Their offer (made in writing) was the name "Fitzroy-Collingwood Magpies", the home strip was to be in Collingwood colours , the away strip in Fitzroy colours, Fitzroy's debt was to be paid off and $500,000 worth of insurance was to be paid to Fitzroy, if the Collingwood members knocked back the merger proposal, as happened with the Hawthorn members in the Melbourne Hawks merger.

Fitzroy knocked back both offers.

I've never heard of this. If Fitzroy were on the ball, they should've accepted as the Pies' members would definitely have voted no and then Fitzroy could get that $500k of insurance money.

 

[AndyD]

Dogs made preliminary finals in 1992, 1997 and 1998.

I don't think the merged Fitzroy / Footscray team would of won 1992 or 1998. Definately 1997.

Probably would of won the 1997 flag.

Adding Pert, Osborne and Roos to our 92 team would’ve made us much stronger and not difficult to see that team going all the way.

So much of our modern identity was and still is based around the Fightback campaign. So if the merger went ahead, it’s hard to not see a merged Footscray/Fitzroy still eventually having financial difficulties later on the the decade with further relocation/merger likely, because it’s hard to assume the same supporter base would be there for the merged club.

I think the major sliding doors moment with the failed merger is that it’s hard to not assume Port would’ve taken the 14th spot from 1990. It’s questionable then if there is an immediate need to move to 15 teams in 91 and 16 teams in 95. There would obviously always been second WA and SA teams by the end of the 90’s, but the timelines would be much different. I don’t think it changes much for the WA teams, but Port’s (and likely all of SA football’s) AFL experience would likely be very different had they been the first AFL team in the market in 1990. And that’s without worrying about the on-field changes that a merged Footscray/Fitzroy and Port Adelaide would’ve had on the 1990 and future AFL seasons.


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[pz5151]

It's bizarre that Fitzroy was more concerned with preserving their location than other factors. They had bounced around without a home for decades and their location stuck between Carlton and Collingwood is a major reason why they never developed a big supporter base. Taking advantage of the Western suburbs would be ideal.

 

[Roylion]

I've never heard of this.

It's correct.

If Fitzroy were on the ball, they should've accepted as the Pies' members would definitely have voted no and then Fitzroy could get that $500k of insurance money.

Why would Fitzroy go through the process of merger negotiations in the first place if Collingwood members were going to vote no? Waste of time and money. Fitzroy decided to seek a merger in the first place because they couldn't source a further $1 million to bring their facilities up to AFL standard and attract better players to the club.

 

[Cuzz09]

Footsroy

Fitzcray





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