Which game would have the biggest impact or butterfly effect on AFL history if the result was changed?

[Catsace]

Phil Carmen doesn’t get suspended in 1977.

Colliwobbles probably put to an end.

Hafey gets his fifth Premiership and with getting a team from wooden-spoon to Premiers would probably propel him to greatest coach ever.

Barrassi stuck on 3 Premierships, would North be able to muster a Premiership in 1978 or at least make the Grand Final in 1979 or would they have a depressing record of five or six Grand Finals in a row for 1 Premiership?

North rather remarkably never won a second semi final in the old VFL era, they made all their GF's from a Preliminary.

Interesting thread for sure, lots of scenarios I hadn't considered. But two I agree with, Fitzroy winning that QF against Hawthorn for a free hit at a North team that was on fumes late in '83, and had the Dogs won the '97 PF for a single Flag play-off between St.K and the Dogs.

 

[PerthBoy86]

North rather remarkably never won a second semi final in the old VFL era, they made all their GF's from a Preliminary.

Interesting thread for sure, lots of scenarios I hadn't considered. But two I agree with, Fitzroy winning that QF against Hawthorn for a free hit at a North team that was on fumes late in '83, and had the Dogs won the '97 PF for a single Flag play-off between St.K and the Dogs.

Drought breaker 97 GF was something we were robbed of. Now all the long (50 year plus) droughts are broken bar poor old St Kilda it can't happen.

 

[sabso]

Drought breaker 97 GF was something we were robbed of. Now all the long (50 year plus) droughts are broken bar poor old St Kilda it can't happen.

There are 50 year + spoon droughts though

 

[Blues177]

1970 Grand Final by far:

Carlton lead a rousing second half comeback utilising a new style of aggressively handballing, playing on from marks and quickly running in waves but sadly fall agonisingly short after a few steadying soft free kicks to Peter Mckenna let the Pies kick away.

Collingwood win their first flag since 1958 and go on to dominate the 70s.

Carlton dismayed at their sides capitulation to their rivals Richmond and Collingwood in consecutive years sack Ron Barassi having determined that he simply cannot get them to another flag without both playing and coaching. With it only being 5 years since his acrimonious departure from Melbourne, Ron struggles to get another job in coaching and joins the media.

In this scenario:

Bob Rose continues on as coach of Collingwood for the entire 1970’s ….instead of actually quitting the pies job at the end of 1971 and taking on the Footscray job in 1972 for 4 years.

If there is no Barassi/Melbourne reunion then with Bob Rose unavailable maybe Footscray approach Barassi to take on the job in 1972.

..and where would Tom Hafey have ended up after quitting Richmond in 1976?

 

[HolyRioli]

2013 Prelim - Hawks v Geelong

Hawks lose this game and Clarkson gets shown the door - not because he deserved to, but because the powers that be do him in.

The ripple effect is in his coaching tree.

Beveridge, Adam Simpson, Fagan all don’t get their roles (and Premierships).

The entire decade looks very different.

I was going to take this one further and say the 2008 GF. Hardwick was a member of Clarkson’s coaching team, and his resume undoubtably would’ve been less impressive without that win. Moreover, how long would Clarkson been allowed to continue as head coach at the Hawks without it, given he was nearly sacked a couple of seasons later.

Those two would’ve had about 10 assistants combined go on to become head coaches.

Secondly, the Clarkson Cluster was one of the early interactions of whole-ground, 18 man zone defence. Would it have taken off as much had it failed to win a flag? The entire tactical development of the game over the last 15 years could be different.

 

[Freomaniac]

Probably not the biggest impact, but let's say 1998. Richmond managed to finish 8th instead of 9th. They would have had to play North Melbourne, Melbourne and Adelaide.. all of whom they beat that same year (even beating Adelaide in Adelaide). Could they have gone the distance?

Unlikely.....

Had Richmond got 8th in 2000, they faced 5th placed Geelong.

Hawks finished 8th in 2000 and won that Elim final

 

[Captain_Bender]

Unlikely.....

Had Richmond got 8th in 2000, they faced 5th placed Geelong.

Hawks finished 8th in 2000 and won that Elim final

If Richo didn't break his foot a few games into 2000, Richmond probably make finals

 

[Dark Eagle 9]

That's true. Feel we actually out too much emphasise on premierships when deciding the success or failure of teams or players.

The St Kilda side of 09-10 was arguably stronger than the Eagles or Swans of the mid 00s, but can't really compare them. Like in reality they were a Scarlett toepoke and a Milne bounce away from having won two premierships. Could have been remembered as one of the strongest teams of the 00s, but instead they're forgotten about. Ross Lyon likewise is criticised for his dour defensive gamestyle - justifiably at times - but with some luck he'd be a 3 time premiership coach and be in the same conversation as Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick. Gary Ablett Senior is definitely no less great because he never won a flag, he did everything humanly possibly to try to get the Cats over the line in 89.

I asked the legendary Benny Cousins the other night, "If you could have pulled your shi.. together & had been drafted by the Saints, do you think you would of been the difference between the Saints winning a premiership?". He was humble, smiled & said he didn't know but that he was at the games watching with Molly Meldrum. I told him I thought he would have been & walked away thinking 'Yea you were doing lines with Molly lol'

 

[Do the Dew]

I asked the legendary Benny Cousins the other night, "If you could have pulled your shi.. together & had been drafted by the Saints, do you think you would of been the difference between the Saints winning a premiership?". He was humble, smiled & said he didn't know but that he was at the games watching with Molly Meldrum. I told him I thought he would have been & walked away thinking 'Yea you were doing lines with Molly lol'

I'll take "things that didn't happen for $200".

 

[raskolnikov]

If Hawthorn had won the 01 prelim then Sheedy may have realised that it was time for a rebuild and not pushed for another flag over the next few years.

 

[Spirit Level]

Fremantle vs Carlton, round 22 2010.

Close game and Carlton could have easily pinched it. This would have given Freo an away elim final which they likely would have gotten smashed in.

Mark Harvey gets fired and Freo promote Chris Scott to head coach, Geelong doesn't get to poach him and maybe 2012-2015 turns out differently.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

This is easy, 2020 Grand Final

No STAND rule if Geelong wins

If I could go back and given the choice:

-have to watch netball-footy the last 4 years

-or have to watch Geelong win that GF

Genuinely not sure what I would choose

What is it with Richmond fans and that rule change? It is more accepted among fans of every other club.
It has been good for the game, as has 6-6-6.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

What is it with Richmond fans and that rule change? It is more accepted among fans of every other club.
It has been good for the game, as has 6-6-6.

and what's your position on Statues and Musical Chairs? Other fun games for children.

or confess, did you play a tree in your primary school play?

lol

 

[Freomaniac]

We've won 2 gfs by a combined total of 6 points - one goal. 6 points separating us from a mere 2 premierships - same as the Crows - and 4.

Make it a 5th flag in 2015. Had an injury riddled dockers beat hawks in that 2015 preliminary final, eagles would face the dockers with no Fyfe and Pavlich

 

[LOLchie Schultz]

Round 15, 2015.

Result doesn't matter but if Sam Mitchell didn't knee Nat Fyfe in the thigh, Freo win the flag!

 

[Freomaniac]

What is it with Richmond fans and that rule change? It is more accepted among fans of every other club.
It has been good for the game, as has 6-6-6.

I always have to argue about the 6-6-6 rule with tigers fans.

Tigers fans actually believe the 6-6-6 rule was brought in to screw or hurt the tigers game plan.

To this day, I believe the 6-6-6 rule was brought in to counter Ross Lyon and his tactics.

No one wants all 36 players with in 5 metres of the bloody ball in a boundary throw in.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

and what's your position on Statues and Musical Chairs? Other fun games for children.

or confess, did you play a tree in your primary school play?

lol

What an unhinged response.

Discussion about football mechanics leads to gibberish response about children's pastimes.
Does nothing to argue the point rationally either I might add.

 

[Do the Dew]

I always have to argue about the 6-6-6 rule with tigers fans.

Tigers fans actually believe the 6-6-6 rule was brought in to screw or hurt the tigers game plan.

To this day, I believe the 6-6-6 rule was brought in to counter Ross Lyon and his tactics.

No one wants all 36 players with in 5 metres of the bloody ball in a boundary throw in.

The fact was that the season before it was brought in, the Tigers set up in a 666 format the least of any team.

Was it brought in specifically to counter us? No, I don't think so.

Is it a garbage rule that hasn't increased scoring (which was the only measurable metric the AFL said it would improve and therefore the only thing we can judge it's success on)? Yes.

Also to your last point, all 36 players can be within 5m of a boundary throw in either before or after the 666 rule.

 

[Do the Dew]

What an unhinged response.

Discussion about football mechanics leads to gibberish response about children's pastimes.
Does nothing to argue the point rationally either I might add.

You're in the absolute minority if you think the STAND rule is good for the game. May as well make the players sit down on the mark. It wasn't trialed (except at a Geelong practice match), was rushed in just before the season, and caused a knee-jerk reaction in the "outside-5" adjustment. It's still horribly umpired to this day with players left impotent on the mark as the guy with the ball creeps around while the umpires are daydreaming and not calling play on. Horrible 50m penalties from players moving a toenail. And it takes away a legitimate skill in the game, that is, how to properly man the mark and create pressure for the opposition.

666 rule I still contend is garbage although that's more up for debate. Likewise the ruck nomination rule, kick-in rule, and interchange restrictions.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Phil Carmen doesn’t get suspended in 1977.

Colliwobbles probably put to an end.

Hafey gets his fifth Premiership and with getting a team from wooden-spoon to Premiers would probably propel him to greatest coach ever.

Barrassi stuck on 3 Premierships, would North be able to muster a Premiership in 1978 or at least make the Grand Final in 1979 or would they have a depressing record of five or six Grand Finals in a row for 1 Premiership?

+ would have been the first and only example of a team going from wooden spoon one season to premiers the next

 

[PetterdHoisted]

What an unhinged response.

Discussion about football mechanics leads to gibberish response about children's pastimes.
Does nothing to argue the point rationally either I might add.

hahaaa, so you did play the role of a tree!?

Personally, I lost interest in games like Statues long ago, and the spectacle of adults having to play it in a professional football code...well.

Corinthians 13:11 applies.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

+ would have been the first and only example of a team going from wooden spoon one season to premiers the next

2016-2017 a bigger absolute jump from 17th to 1st for the Tigers, but not last to first, and that will just get harder and harder with Tassy etc. coming in, so probably the Pies came as close as any team ever will to doing that?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You're in the absolute minority if you think the STAND rule is good for the game. May as well make the players sit down on the mark. It wasn't trialed (except at a Geelong practice match), was rushed in just before the season, and caused a knee-jerk reaction in the "outside-5" adjustment. It's still horribly umpired to this day with players left impotent on the mark as the guy with the ball creeps around while the umpires are daydreaming and not calling play on. Horrible 50m penalties from players moving a toenail. And it takes away a legitimate skill in the game, that is, how to properly man the mark and create pressure for the opposition.

666 rule I still contend is garbage although that's more up for debate. Likewise the ruck nomination rule, kick-in rule, and interchange restrictions.

The Stand Rule is 100% good for the game.

 

[Do the Dew]

The Stand Rule is 100% good for the game.

In what way? Scoring still hasn't increased, there's more garbage 50m penalties, and 1 player is taken completely out of the game due to this rule.

It hasn't magically opened the game up, teams now just roll 15m further back.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

In what way? Scoring still hasn't increased, there's more garbage 50m penalties, and 1 player is taken completely out of the game due to this rule.

It hasn't magically opened the game up, teams now just roll 15m further back.

The ball moves more.

The team with the ball, has more control.

Watching games now prior to the rule change, it just looks idiotic how the Man on the Mark could delay play intentionally.

It added literally zero to the game.

How many people watched footy and think 'Oh wow, that guy did a great job of stopping that guy moving the ball forward quickly. I'd pay good money to watch that!'?

None.