How do we take the next step to a premiership?

[M Malice]

We have too much idle time on our hands to think about what ifs, seriously we are not very far off a flag, if it wasn't for J.Berry and/or Jack Payne going down we would more than likely be playing for a spot in the decider tonight... and that was without Hipwood and McStay in the side.

+ 2019 we were under a kick from making the Prelim as well, 2020 we beat the Premiers in a final.

IMO we can win a flag with the list we have now, just have to have a tiny amount of luck re injury/bounce of the ball and we win it.

 

[Tom14]

We could've drafted Caldwell and lost him after two years.

From memory based on what people at the draft event that year reported of our recruiters views, he could very well have been the pick at 6.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Also we've had a hell of a lot more fun the past 3 years actually watching our team win games. Being a home member and going to basically every game in 2019 remains the most fun I've had as a footy fan, as I was at primary school for our threepeat. Beyond losing draft picks if we had kept sucking, we wouldn't nearly be in as healthy a financial position especially given the pandemic, which we've come out ok on all things considered.

Yeah, completely agree with this. Obviously the ultimate goal is to win a premiership, but only one side gets to do that every year and so on average every fan would be upset 17 out of 18 years that they follow footy. Let's say you support a team for 72 years - on average, you would only have 4 good years in those 72 and 68 bad ones. I don't think a hobby that disappoints you for 68 years only to thrill you for 4 is a particularly healthy one.

While the past three years haven't ended in a premiership, they have been full of so many enjoyable moments that would not have happened if we did not pick Neale & Lyons up. Will they take us all the way? Who knows - I still have a lot of hope they can. But even if not, I can't see any other scenario that was available to us that anyone could honestly claim would be likely to take us closer.

 

[briztoon]

Would we have hit the same heights with Lyons alone? It's a losing side in an argument. Neale is one of the best players in the comp and our rise has coincided with him joining us.

I don’t believe we’d have hit the same heights if we only brought Neale in, or only brought Lyons in.

It’s the two of them together, three seasons ago that took us to 2nd on the ladder.

Neale by himself might have got us to the top 8, but I’m struggling to think who would have been the third mid with Neale and Zorko.

 

[dlanod]

From memory based on what people at the draft event that year reported of our recruiters views, he could very well have been the pick at 6.

I was there. He was definitely in the picture but was a big favourite of the recruiting team.

 

[pulpdriver]

I don’t believe we’d have hit the same heights if we only brought Neale in, or only brought Lyons in.

It’s the two of them together, three seasons ago that took us to 2nd on the ladder.

Neale by himself might have got us to the top 8, but I’m struggling to think who would have been the third mid with Neale and Zorko.

The intangibles will drive you nuts but we have played McCluggage on the wing as a luxury. That's your third man.

 

[briztoon]

I guess the other thing to consider is that there was no game-breaking midfielder available at the pick we traded Lachie for anyway. So even if we hadn't traded him in, we would still be short that game-breaking midfielder that you say we can't win a flag without.

I think the arcs of premiership teams are fascinating. Before a flag (or a run of flags), there does invariably seem to be some heartache combined with list analysers writing off the quality of the team. They aren't good enough, they have hit the ceiling of what they're capable of, there are clear deficiencies... until there aren't.

I'm not certain Lachie & JL in our midfield can take us to a premiership. I have some concerns we aren't quite strong enough too. What I do feel certain about though, is that bringing them in has given us the best possible chance to have a shot at it.

That we’ll never know.

We could have ended up with Noah Anderson from the 2019 draft, and he is that type of midfielder.

Lyons might not have left the Gold Coast, and they might not have been so poor and received a PP.

 

[briztoon]

We have too much idle time on our hands to think about what ifs, seriously we are not very far off a flag, if it wasn't for J.Berry and/or Jack Payne going down we would more than likely be playing for a spot in the decider tonight... and that was without Hipwood and McStay in the side.

+ 2019 we were under a kick from making the Prelim as well, 2020 we beat the Premiers in a final.

IMO we can win a flag with the list we have now, just have to have a tiny amount of luck re injury/bounce of the ball and we win it.

How long before the draft?

 

[Dalions]

I think we also need to consider that this year with Lachie out for long periods, I think that Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

worked much harder in the first half of the year than he may have needed to otherwise.
Jarryd seems to fall away a little towards the end of the year as a result.
And as a result of Lachie spending long periods of the year injured, I don’t think he was still completely back to his best at the end of the year.
Those 2 things combined along with Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

missing huge chunks and Hippy, McStay and Rayner out of the forward line and Darcy and Harrise not exactly at their best in the backline, IMO we have much to look forward to next year and I still think our best footy this year was good enough to compete with any other team.

 

[martinson]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of awareness some people have as to what Lachie has done for the club.

How long since we had someone good enough to be in contention for the Brownlow let alone win by 10 votes. That was monumental.

His signing lit us up as a destination club and the beginning of this successful era. Not only that he delivered on the field in spades and instilled a lot of confidence in other players.

Injury free don't be surprised if he's back at the top of the polls next year. He's clearly very driven and very good.

Don't understand the lack of respect as if we could be better off without him.

Some people get too wrapped up in the machinations of drafts and trades and can't see what's staring them in the face.

IMO.

 

[POBT]

I clearly have very different priorities about football to some.

 

[pulpdriver]

I clearly have very different priorities about football to some.

For sure. Where is our top 40?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That’s the thing about my original post you quoted. I said I don’t believe we’ll win a premiership with Neale and Lyons both in the team. Therefore I don’t believe we’re close to a premiership.

Okay. And I'm saying I don't believe we'd be any closer without having done the Neale trade.

If we had drafted well in 2018 and 2019 (having not traded for Neale), we might be much better set up for a premiership tilt in the not to distant future.

Might. We're perfectly capable of drafting busts, and again, Rozee or Ben King in place of Neale wouldn't have us any closer to a flag.

That hasn’t changed as far as I’m concerned, except we’re possibly in a worse off position for when Rich, Zorko and Lyons are no longer best 22.

So we shouldn't have taken opportunities to win a flag with those three? Just waste their remaining years because we'd rather keep hoping we strike gold in the draft instead of bringing in guaranteed strong players? We had the foundation to contend with Neale. It isn't suddenly a mistake just because we haven't got to the big dance yet.

 

[M Malice]

The unfolding result in the Prelim we were a bees dick away from being in proves that we have everything in place to win a flag with our current group of players, just need the cards to eventually fall our way in the finals.

 

[Sproj]

The unfolding result in the Prelim we were a bees dick away from being in proves that we have everything in place to win a flag with our current group of players, just need the cards to eventually fall our way in the finals.

And an even umpiring performance. Watching this game really just makes one angrier doesn't it. Robbed twice in one season really, really hurts.

 

[Elixuh]

Watching last night and tonight should re-affirm how close we are and that if we can maintain a healthy list next year we are easily anywhere between the best and third best team in the comp. The media will focus on the straight sets, but Geelong and Port may as well of gone out in straight sets because they are that far off it.

 

[M Malice]

And an even umpiring performance. Watching this game really just makes one angrier doesn't it. Robbed twice in one season really, really hurts.

Yep, I was completely over the robbery last week, this just brings everything to the surface again.... to make it worse I think the Dogs are a red hot chance to beat the Demons in the GF, particularly if Steven May doesn't play.

 

[Sproj]

Yep, I was completely over the robbery last week, this just brings everything to the surface again.... to make it worse I think the Dogs are a red hot chance to beat the Demons in the GF, particularly if Steven May doesn't play.

And we would have had McStay back.

 

[McIvor]

I think the arcs of premiership teams are fascinating. Before a flag (or a run of flags), there does invariably seem to be some heartache combined with list analysers writing off the quality of the team. They aren't good enough, they have hit the ceiling of what they're capable of, there are clear deficiencies... until there aren't.

And in the meantime we need to put up and listen to David King telling us "don't lose to what you know".

 

[McIvor]

His signing lit us up as a destination club and the beginning of this successful era. Not only that he delivered on the field in spades and instilled a lot of confidence in other players.

Im not having a go hear, but often times last year we regularly heard that we are a destination club (I'm talking after Neale and Linc joined the club) and player managers were supposedly approaching the Lions on behalf of their clients throughout last year and this year, but outside of Joe, can you say we are that? I mean who are all these players that want to come to the Lions? Im not expecting them all to be stars of the comp but its not often you hear of players banging the door or linked to the club unlike Carlton who for some bizarre reasons have players regularly linked such as Saad, ac Williams and now the likes of Cerra, Hewett and a few others.

Don't get me wrong I want us to be a destination club, but I just don't see how we are unless Im missing something.

 

[fugitive]

Watching last night and tonight should re-affirm how close we are and that if we can maintain a healthy list next year we are easily anywhere between the best and third best team in the comp. The media will focus on the straight sets, but Geelong and Port may as well of gone out in straight sets because they are that far off it.

Media has been pretty kind to us TBH because everyone knows how quickly and from how far behind we have risen to be a consistent top 4 side. You can easily dwell on the umpiring robbery etc but we had more than enough chances to lock the dogs away last week so strangely now I’m feeling pretty good about our finals performance that we were the closest to both eventual grand finalists even without our best squad and not putting in 4 quarter performances. A bit more luck with injuries in the QF against Melbourne and we would be discussing a potential GF right now, so much to look forward to next season!

 

[lioninthesand]

I know its easy for the mind to go there with the 'we should be in a GF', 'it hurts even more now' etc.. im seeing it everywhere from Lions fans. but I just can't personally. We are 1 and 5 in finals. We can't win them in the real world, so no point torturing ourselves, thinking about an alternate world where we are in a GF. History suggests we lose to Port given our big game record. We may well have got their and shat the bed or Port may have had a different mind set, its a totally different game. We arnt the Dogs, they are back to the wall specialists who are on a roll.

I get the sentiment but I can't connect the dots between.. straights sets and we should be in a granny.

What it does do, it reaffirms we did well with injured players againts 2 good teams. It reaffirms we are close. It reaffirms, once again, we are the 3rd or 4th best team in the comp.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Im not having a go hear, but often times last year we regularly heard that we are a destination club (I'm talking after Neale and Linc joined the club) and player managers were supposedly approaching the Lions on behalf of their clients throughout last year and this year, but outside of Joe, can you say we are that? I mean who are all these players that want to come to the Lions? Im not expecting them all to be stars of the comp but its not often you hear of players banging the door or linked to the club unlike Carlton who for some bizarre reasons have players regularly linked such as Saad, ac Williams and now the likes of Cerra, Hewett and a few others.

Don't get me wrong I want us to be a destination club, but I just don't see how we are unless Im missing something.

I think Hodge, Cameron, Neale, Adams, McCarthy, Lyons, Birchall, Daniher, and Cockatoo is very much destination club worthy. You only have to look back at the list of players we traded in from 2010-2017 to see just how stark that change has been. Also - draftees wanting to come here and stay here is another sign of that.

 

[jackess]

I know its easy for the mind to go there with the 'we should be in a GF', 'it hurts even more now' etc.. im seeing it everywhere from Lions fans. but I just can't personally. We are 1 and 5 in finals. We can't win them in the real world, so no point torturing ourselves, thinking about an alternate world where we are in a GF. History suggests we lose to Port given our big game record. We may well have got their and shat the bed or Port may have had a different mind set, its a totally different game. We arnt the Dogs, they are back to the wall specialists who are on a roll.

I get the sentiment but I can't connect the dots between.. straights sets and we should be in a granny.

What it does do, it reaffirms we did well with injured players againts 2 good teams. It reaffirms we are close. It reaffirms, once again, we are the 3rd or 4th best team in the comp.

Port have a better big game record?

 

[Helicon1]

Both prelim winners killed the other team with pressure and spread with speed from contests. We currently only tick the pressure box when we are on. Both the dogs and Dees, when we have played them, show us up on the spread and target our slower defensive running players.
We need to find players that provide the speed factor.
Birchall retiring helps with that from the back. We saw what Kiddy can and will do with more games down there. Answerth and Madden can and will provide that too. Yes both need to work on disposal but they are good defensively. We didn’t get to see Answerth at all this year.
I’d like to see Starcevich in the middle as a bigger body line breaker. Fully fit Berry will be a big help too. Rayner back in provides that x-factor.
We bat deep in the middle but the lack of speed in there needs attention.
As others have said our biggest concern is the ruck. We need to find a back up for next year.
I am super pumped for next year. These boys will be hurting and would know we would’ve put up a better show than port and Geelong did, even with the injuries we have had.