Opinion How much should we focus on number 5?

[The Nostradamus]

There are certainly a few older guys who I'd like to see overtaken.

yep want to see more of the younger players cementing spots and replacing some of the older players this year.

Rate our young players highly and reckon with a string of games in a row we will benefit more with the likes of Dumont, Wood, Turner, Daw etc who have significant upside.

NAB challenge games will be crucial.
Hope all players get a run over the 3 games to make a case for the round 1 team.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Ultimately the best 22 should be playing each week yet losing sight of the future would be foolish and irresponsible. The youngsters need to push for a spot but the selectors cannot stubbornly select the same old guys when they are not performing.



Strongly agree with this sentiment. Firrito, Thompson for starters, Gibson and even Hansen, Petrie, Waite, Swallow and Dal Santo should be challenged for their positions this year.

Agree with most of those.

Swallow is still a reliable performer however.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Also, why the hell would North spend the last 5 years to build a list that's capable of pushing deep into September/early October, then start playing kids in the hope of being able to play finals in the future?

It's just dumb. They've built this list, now let's see what they're capable of.

I can smell a flag.

 

[shniko11]

Yeah i'll admit this year is similar to 96 coming of two Prelims but this list is older so the pressure is on.

All this talk of no 5, Premiership windows closing,retirements etc etc has me on edge already.
I've become so ruthless now with were this list is at, that lets just say by mid year if not sooner i'm going to seriously lose it!

 

[Saintly31]

Also, why the hell would North spend the last 5 years to build a list that's capable of pushing deep into September/early October, then start playing kids in the hope of being able to play finals in the future?

It's just dumb. They've built this list, now let's see what they're capable of.

I can smell a flag.

You might smell it. Do our players and coaches?

Most likely. (well at least they should)

It still doesn't mean we are able to handle VFL players performing who want (need?) a spot to ensure we don't plummet after our vets retire, or potentially improve our chances of 5 this year or beyond.

It's a luxury to Scott but very difficult as well which way we head

 

[WesternRoo]

Bottom line, this is the first year since the 90's we are a genuine chance to make a GF and win a flag.

Whoever gives us the best chance to get there should be playing.

I think there is solid and valid debate that can be had regarding what the make up of the best team is.

But we shouldn't be entertaining playing Durdin over Hansen for example, because we are worried how the side will look when, lets be honest, our older stars retire, when we won't be contending in the short term when that occurs anyway and can blood who we want.

 

[Gasometer]

No 5 is alive

 

[Gasometer]

...oh and who can ever forget the Handball Comp on the Sunday footy show. ..

5 EYE

 

[hilly]

All out, if Hawthorn slip a few per cent we are as good a chance as anyone.

 

[Event Horizon]

I think that provided we don't tolerate more than 2 weeks of bad form and all round inconsistency, this problem will solve itself. No way can we go through a season without form lapses to individual players, which should mean that best performed VFL players get their chances.
We certainly should not be playing any young player just to get games into them. But form should ensure both objectives are met, provided we stick to it, and not simply play people on reputation despite being down.

 

[coopers pale]

I hate the idea that every side is not trying to win a flag. It's a major flaw in the system.

I do think the league is closer to being even across the board then it's ever been. There will be less dynasties and the top 8 will change a lot more from year to year IMO

I'm not so sure about that, with free agency as it currently stands, a Hawthorn can just keep topping up from the Carlton's, Melbourne's and GWS's of this world and stay up the ladder for a good 5 or 6 years, as younger players want success NOW and older players (Lake) want a flag before they retire.

If they found a way to make teams pay more to recruit from teams below them on the ladder, on a sliding scale depending on how far below them on the ladder the other team is, then we might get more equity and movement. But then, I'm a Socialist by nature......

 

[Saintly31]

All out, if Hawthorn slip a few per cent we are as good a chance as anyone.

I'm happy to go all out as well, but I do have concerns what the ramifications might be. Especially regarding younger players leaving and us dropping down further than we otherwise would.

Maybe that assessment can be made mid season depending on how we are travelling.

 

[ferball]

I'm happy to go all out as well, but I do have concerns what the ramifications might be. Especially regarding younger players leaving and us dropping down further than we otherwise would.

Maybe that assessment can be made mid season depending on how we are travelling.

If young players leave instead of busting their arses to make/force their way into the first 22 then are they the sort of players that:

a) we want

b) are really capable of winning a flag.

 

[King Corey]

Enjoy today but put a little away for retirement.

 

[TwentyNine]

Should we:

a) try to win a flag now while we are currently one of the best teams in the league? or
b) not try to do that and instead play a bunch of kids in the hopes that we might someday be in the same position we are already in right now?

I'm going to go ahead and say this is a pretty easy question.

 

[Donkey Chop]

I'm not so sure about that, with free agency as it currently stands, a Hawthorn can just keep topping up from the Carlton's, Melbourne's and GWS's of this world and stay up the ladder for a good 5 or 6 years, as younger players want success NOW and older players (Lake) want a flag before they retire.

If they found a way to make teams pay more to recruit from teams below them on the ladder, on a sliding scale depending on how far below them on the ladder the other team is, then we might get more equity and movement. But then, I'm a Socialist by nature......

I'm hearing you and that has been the way it's been played out so far. I do also think it will even out as lower clubs don't need to rely purely on the draft to become competitive. You could argue more then FA the compromised drafts over the GWS & Suns inclusion has made it harder for teams to get off the bottom.

 

[muttley45]

As long as team selection is based purely on fitness/form, and to a lesser extent horses for courses, the rest will take care of itself.

 

[King Corey]

I'm not so sure about that, with free agency as it currently stands, a Hawthorn can just keep topping up from the Carlton's, Melbourne's and GWS's of this world and stay up the ladder for a good 5 or 6 years, as younger players want success NOW and older players (Lake) want a flag before they retire.

If they found a way to make teams pay more to recruit from teams below them on the ladder, on a sliding scale depending on how far below them on the ladder the other team is, then we might get more equity and movement. But then, I'm a Socialist by nature......

Sidenote - excepting Frawley who really wasn't that much chop, hawthorn's key recycles (Judas, Hale, Lake, Burgoyne etc) have all been trades.

 

[hilly]

I'm happy to go all out as well, but I do have concerns what the ramifications might be. Especially regarding younger players leaving and us dropping down further than we otherwise would.

Maybe that assessment can be made mid season depending on how we are travelling.

I think it depends on the circumstances....resting Waite for Daw against a top eight side isn't logical, but resting Goldstein and playing Daw in the ruck against Essendon makes sense. The best way is probably to make sure that young players are ahead of the fringe and not the core of the side.

 

[Saintly31]

Should we:

a) try to win a flag now while we are currently one of the best teams in the league? or
b) not try to do that and instead play a bunch of kids in the hopes that we might someday be in the same position we are already in right now?

I'm going to go ahead and say this is a pretty easy question.

How much we focus on winning number 5 whilst maintaining healthy development for the future (unlike the Ross Lyon approach) is the question, no one is suggesting B as would be ridiculous.

 

[Saintly31]

I think it depends on the circumstances....resting Waite for Daw against a top eight side isn't logical, but resting Goldstein and playing Daw in the ruck against Essendon makes sense. The best way is probably to make sure that young players are ahead of the fringe and not the core of the side.

Yes I agree. I think there should be opportunities for Scott to allow players to continue development without overly risking our chances of short term success.

I do believe however we will need a very positive start to the season to allow us to have that flexibility. If we don't I think the risk will be too great to use young/fringe players how we want/should be.

 

[Saintly31]

If young players leave instead of busting their arses to make/force their way into the first 22 then are they the sort of players that:

a) we want

b) are really capable of winning a flag.

I'm guessing you missed a "not" before the sort of players (as in we don't want that type rather than do), and if so yeah i'd say it's a fair call - but also a difficult situation especially if they deserve games off VFL form but aren't able to get them due us prioritizing older/near retiring players to maximize 'now'.

 

[ferball]

I'm guessing you missed a "not" before the sort of players (as in we don't want that type rather than do), and if so yeah i'd say it's a fair call - but also a difficult situation especially if they deserve games off VFL form but aren't able to get them due us prioritizing older/near retiring players to maximize 'now'.

It was badly written/punctuated but personally I reckon the answer to both questions is no we don't want those players in a side and they probably don't have whats needed to win a flag anyway.

I also think its not enough to "deserve" a game based on vfl form unless its outstanding. You have to do enough to break into a team, to earn your place and if that means putting an established player out of the side if that is what you have to do.

For the last 2 seasons we have a top four side by the end of the year. If you (any players reading this) think you're good enough to play in a top four side then you have to show that on field and that means you have to dominate the vfl week in and week out and then show up your competitors at training - every single session.

We shouldn't be playing older players unless they are the best option. We've been lucky than our older players do seem to be the best options but I think some of those players should (and will) be under pressure to keep their spot every week this coming season. In some ways last year was a missed opportunity. We don't need passengers if we are going all the way and we don't need passengers if we are trying to develop a team cos it teaches young players that not giving 100%+ is ok.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

This question is exactly why running a football club is tough. It is hard to find that right balance.

I don't prescribe to the theory that 2016 is our last chance. We will most likely lose Harvey, Firrito & Waite at the end of this year, Petrie, Thompson, Dal Santo & Wells might go on for another 2, the rest should still have several years in front of them.

That means this year we will try to groom someone like Anderson to take over Boomers role, McDonald will take over Firritos spot, Black will need to work hard to get his spot back from Waite.

Then the following year we will hopefully have Durdin, Nielsen, Dumont, Clarke, etc to take over from the next lot of retirees.

It is a tough balancing act, but we need to go hard at number 5 this year but keep half an eye on the future.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Should we:

a) try to win a flag now while we are currently one of the best teams in the league? or
b) not try to do that and instead play a bunch of kids in the hopes that we might someday be in the same position we are already in right now?

I'm going to go ahead and say this is a pretty easy question.

It is sure, no one is denying this but it is the coaches job to teach the entire group that collectively the entire club is on a mission and that everyone is a chance to get called upon if they're football output at AFL and VFL levels is to a standard the coaching staff have placed upon the individual. I mean its the entire coaching team is there to drive the team ethos and keep the players motivated . Its no good having the VFL players not striving to better themselves and busting their respective arses to get into the 1st team when there is no chance in hell because Brad has his favourites. We witness loads of this until Brad Scott had his stint in hospital.
We witnessed Luke McDonald take a back seat last year.......only his footy can do the talking in 2016. Don't tell me we've not had Brad chat to him and say "this is what I want", or an Assistant Coach needle him on to do more.

I want best 22 on the park......if you don't perform you're out attitude in 2016.