Opinion How to use Round 23

[jenny61_99]

As for the OP, we absolutely have to go for it.

 

[skoobydoo]

First, let's have a reality check.

Adelaide started this season with severe injuries to key players – with flaws in its structure. Podsiadly and Betts were only going to be makeshift players, gaps in obvious holes until the main players returned. To their immense credit, they held a flimsy structure together for a long time and, in fact, saved Adelaide from a worse fate it would have faced if they hadn't been there.

It's been a flimflam season – winning one or two games against the odds, losing more for no reason at all. In my opinion, this hasn't been a coaching problem. Don't sack the coach. And stop asking to sack the coach. Clubs with a spineless or stupid culture demand the sacking of their coach at the exact moment they should, instead, stick by their decisons and, amongst other things, invest faith in their coach. Sanderson has the faith of the players. He's achieved that and supporters should respect that.

Don't be moronic and gutless, Adelaide. Don't turn disappointment into a crisis. Express some faith in the management of your club and accept that, right now, Adelaide is an immature squad still learning how to become an accomplished team.

Now, how best to use Round 23.

If Adelaide somehow manages to scrape into eighth spot next week, it will be a false goal.

Adelaide will then play Fremantle in Perth or Port at Adelaide Oval and Adelaide will lose. And let's not kid ourselves. We don't deserve to win. We are simply not good enough, right now. Or, to put this in another way, this year there are at least seven other teams that are much better than us, right now. And that's the simple fact of the matter.

What's the best way to use Round 23?

Two things.

Let's get the Crouch brothers into the same team and get over the Big Thing about this. Let's do it right now... and see whether it works or whether it doesn't.

And, if Nathan van Berlo is ready to play, let's get him into the team as a sub and give him a quarter and half of real footy to think about over the summer.

And a third thing. As wonderful as Patrick Dangerfield is, and has been, the thing that bothers me is that his singleminded attack on the ball has turned him into a private zone of one. I don't think that any of his coaches, so far, have worked out how to maximise his incredible talents in terms of team value.

I think that Patrick needs a position, not a role. Or, rather, a position that enables him to perform a more defined role.

I'm slipping back into the past, here, but I remember when Andrew McLeod was slotted into the halfback flank and became the most reliable break in the opposition's attack and the best launch of Adelaide's turnovers. The modern game lacks those defined positions, now, of course... it's all relative positions on shifting lines. But, in Round 23, if I was coach, and thank god I am not, I'd switch Patrick Dangerfield away from the midfield and attack group, and settle him into the defensive back six. I'd redefine his role, give him a new purpose and see what happened... with a view to season 2015.

And release one of those back six into the forward six and tell them to think about kicking goals.

In other words, experiment a little bit.
Use Round 23 to try out different things.

There is nothing to gain and nothing to lose except a little bit of new information.

Why haven't your above suggestions been given a go already? Podsiadly and Betts (makeshift ? ) et al forward group were referred to as the 'envy of the other clubs' rather than a flimsy structure with gaps and holes. Over the past few seasons Sando has demonstrated a penchant for strange positional selections and as you say none of 'Dangerfield's coaches has worked out how to maximise his incredible talents'! All this then falls squarely on Sando. The flow on from Craig in 2012 enabled Sando to cruise into the finals. 2013 saw Sando, in attempting to better run the team through the business end of the season, completely misjudge the preseason preparation, from which we never recovered. Have we just wasted another season or have we actually learnt and improved?......and in asking that I'm not talking about Sando here.

 

[skoobydoo]

As for the OP, we absolutely have to go for it.

Not sure whether you mean go for the win (8) or go for JohnK suggestions?

 

[King Elvis]

You all said that about Craig too. One common factor? The players. Players should be doing as their ******* told.

No, we didn't, and, if we did, how is it relevant?

The players loved Craig (except maybe Tex), it all just got stale and a change was needed.

The players should do as the told, and the Coach should have a consistent and clear message, a definable gameplan and the systems in place to implement it. Our coach has none of those.

 

[moses]

Hopefully they have constant updates of the West Coast / Gold Coast game at the game on Sunday. By half time of the Crows game we will know the result. I'm pretty confident Hawks will decimate Collingwood on Friday night and confident Sydney will get the job done against Richmond. The Gold Coast / West Coast is the great unknown. Has West Coast ever played at Metricon? Looks like the last 4 games (all West Coast wins) have been in Perth. I suspect West Coast will win this, but Gold Coast will not be a push over and will want to finish the season strong.

 

[jenny61_99]

Not sure whether you mean go for the win (8) or go for JohnK suggestions?

Go for the win. Sorry, was posting in a hurry on my phone.

 

[jenny61_99]

No, we didn't, and, if we did, how is it relevant?

The players loved Craig (except maybe Tex), it all just got stale and a change was needed.

The players should do as the told, and the Coach should have a consistent and clear message, a definable gameplan and the systems in place to implement it. Our coach has none of those.

Just that the same arguments keep getting trotted out. The simple answer to a complex situation seems always to be "Sack some campaigner". (I do agree with you that change was needed). I'm not sure we are going to get the wholesale changes we need until we change the (majority) of players. We have shown almost every second week that we are capable of taking it to the big guys. Then every other week we are weak and mentally fragile. I don't think any coach can "fix" that to be honest.

 

[hellboy1975]

We should be playing to win. Any experience gained by playing a final (as unlikely as that may be) is better than anything we could gain from mixing the team up this round.

Whether we deserve to play finals or not is irrelevant.

 

[Mattrox]

We should be playing to win. Any experience gained by playing a final (as unlikely as that may be) is better than anything we could gain from mixing the team up this round.

Whether we deserve to play finals or not is irrelevant.

This is spot in. Any ins have to be deserved. Kerridge and Crouch possibly. And hold some players to account for poor performance.

 

[Schulzycrow]

1. Would expect west coast's % to improve thus the need to win by 100+. Haven't got an exact margin sorry.
2. To say the AFC has made enough statements this year means you didn't watch much of the last two weeks. There are players out there either not following the game plan or don't have enough skill or footy smarts to be playing. Either way they need to be dropped and see if others can.
3. Let's get real...IMO we would be only making up the numbers if we made the finals, but so what. It gives the team of youngsters a taste of what is needed over the summer. Deserving has nothing to do with it.
4. Love Danger, but I would hate to see him do something that he can't get up from...when the game needed him to stand up in Tassie he couldn't. A Dangerfield running at 50% is no good to anyone.
5. The Hendo comment was out of line....but he is out of form and needs to be dropped as he is not doing his job as either a defender or rebounding to start attacks.
6. Pods and Martin showed they are good footballers who can do good things...but we need footballers who can finish and kick the goals not miss sodas with no one on them or kick goals that an experienced forward should be able to kick.
7. By go for broke, I mean we have to run, we have to overlap, the players in ATM can't or won't so changes need to be made. Nothing to lose remember.
8. The present coaching panel bar Sando and Milburn have been there long enough and the shambles that is the structures in our midfield and forward line...they aren't working and the players aren't listening. No let's keep going the way we are, with all the data they have on their said laptops they continue to do the same things and we are going backwards.
Let's get some coaches that can use the data better.

The coaching panel doesn't have the guts to do the things that need to happen so expecting minimal changes on Thursday and more of the same on Sunday.

 

[hellboy1975]

Kerridge and Crouch possibly. And hold some players to account for poor performance.

Absolutely, as much as I say we shouldn't mess with the side for the sake of it, I think there's a great case for Kerridge and M Crouch getting a selection. And pressure on poorly performing players should always be there.

 

[Jars458]

Pointless changing approach now. Pick a team we think can win the game. Luckily Saints are terrible so we may in fact win despite ourselves.

 

[Deaneus!]

Pointless changing approach now. Pick a team we think can win the game. Luckily Saints are terrible so we may in fact win despite ourselves.

It's true... I've been advocating tanking since about round 13 or so, but there's little to no point now - we can't even tank properly. Bring in some kids and tell them, go hell for leather.

 

[StonesThrow]

This is a perception that 17 other clubs simply don't share.

He gets tagged heavily for good reason. Meters gained and ability to kick goals. All I'm saying is I'm not sure about his poor kicking out of defence. Wasting it going forward at least we get a 50/50 out of it. Wasting it in the back half can result in goals kicked against.

 

[Golumless]

Yeah, nah. Sack Wright Away.

Bring in a new poster who has been sitting in the wings waiting for a moment to enter.
That won't cost anything.

Sando gets one more year... his assistants however should be packing their bags.

 

[androidtommy]

danger played off half back for the first half last week (according to the afc site) where he picked up 15 touches. I thought he played really well at the start, noticed him getting lots of the ball in space. virtually unsighted in the second half though

 

[DangerSloane]

Bet Freo are glad they have a stupid and spineless culture.

Would've thought the differences were fairly obvious...

Lyon was headhunted, and given a FANTASTIC list to work with.

Sando comes into the club after the administration has literally anally rammed the club, with a middle of the road list.

Also, the coach is the least of the worries. We have absolutely GAPING holes in our list. Key Defense Depth, Outside run, elite ball use.
2 of those are the most important things in the modern game, and we have none of them. This is not sandos fault either...

 

[hey shorty]

Yeah nah.

So tell me where Freo stupid and spineless when they sacked Harvey?

Whilst this is true, Geelong stuck by Bomber when their culture was down the tube and had load of underperforming stars. It took a complete overhaul of the football department and a massive reality check for the players. Did pretty well for them.

I dont know whether Sando is the right man for the job but sacking him probably isnt the answer.

 

[King Elvis]

Freo have plenty of holes in their side as well, arguably more than we do - they overcome them by having a gun coach who is fanatical about structures and roles.

 

[hey shorty]

Ours is fanatical too, just the wrong structures

 

[Elder van Berlo]

The way they did it was ruthless and cruel.

It was ugly, but given the treacherous nature of the whole thing, was there any other way? I didn't like it, but I have to admit it was bloody impressive.

If we identified someone as the coach to lead us forward who was already coaching another club, I would be thrilled for our club to be that ruthless.

And some could say that Lyon is living off the proceeds of all the hard work completed by Harvey. The jury has to be out on his appointment until he brings them a flag.

Some could say that. But given Harvey took over at Freo when they were coming off a prelim and led them to finishes of 11th, 14th, 14th, 6th and 11th, then Lyon took over, won a final in his first year and made a GF in his second, Occam's Razor would suggest that Lyon is just a better coach than Harvey.

Would've thought the differences were fairly obvious...

Lyon was headhunted, and given a FANTASTIC list to work with.

Rationalization after the fact. Nobody thought this at the time. They had made the finals once in 5 years (sound familiar?)

A good coach can make an average list look fantastic, a bad one can make a good list look mediocre.

 

[DangerSloane]

It was ugly, but given the treacherous nature of the whole thing, was there any other way? I didn't like it, but I have to admit it was bloody impressive.

If we identified someone as the coach to lead us forward who was already coaching another club, I would be thrilled for our club to be that ruthless.


Some could say that. But given Harvey took over at Freo when they were coming off a prelim and led them to finishes of 11th, 14th, 14th, 6th and 11th, then Lyon took over, won a final in his first year and made a GF in his second, Occam's Razor would suggest that Lyon is just a better coach than Harvey.

Rationalization after the fact. Nobody thought this at the time. They had made the finals once in 5 years (sound familiar?)

A good coach can make an average list look fantastic, a bad one can make a good list look mediocre.

You mean like how Sando made our average list into a prelim final team in 2012?

I think thats the point people are missing, that was us overachieving. This year is not underachieving.

Didnt have anything to do with Harvey missing 8+ starting 22 players for his final year...

 

[Elder van Berlo]

There's already a number of Sando threads so I don't want to go too far down that path here, but I couldn't stomach the suggestion that Lyon has been given credit for Harvey's latent genius.

I think Sando has to go, not because we lost on the weekend, or because he left Luke Thompson on Jack Ziebell, or because we're going to miss the finals, or because we've given up leads in 5 last quarters this year, although those things are symptoms of what I perceive to be the problem with him.

It's because there is no structure to our game.

It's because our forward line movement and entries are such that we can get 17 consecutive inside 50s without taking a mark inside 50 or particularly looking like taking one.

It's because we have no apparent defensive system that goes beyond running at the ball carrier, resulting in a defence including the AA full back, an AA half back and two small defenders having career years shipping nearly 100 points per game.

It's because there is no apparent system for our kick ins from full back, which has resulted in us spending the last 2 last quarters pinned in defence to the point where it's a relief when the opposition finally kicks a goal so we can get back to the centre and try again.

It's because there is no apparent system from opposition kick ins resulting in momentum sapping coast to coast plays with the opposition given the freedom of the centre square when we are 2 goals up in the last quarter of the most important game of the season.

It's because whenever an opponent is able to get their hands on the ball in a contest, they are one clean handball away from having all the time in the world to find a target, whereas we are limited to hacking it forward, because there is no structure to our attack or defense coming out of a contest.

I could live with being where Melbourne are if there appeared to be some sort of plan that players were not good enough or not experienced enough to implement, or if it looked like the players were learning something.

But all I see every week is the same completely directionless footy, with the same players making the mistakes and the team's overall structure falling down in the same places.

I honestly believe that with a better coach we would be at least competing for a top 4 spot with the Geelongs, Freos and Ports of the world.

 

[jenny61_99]

There's already a number of Sando threads so I don't want to go too far down that path here, but I couldn't stomach the suggestion that Lyon has been given credit for Harvey's latent genius.

I think Sando has to go, not because we lost on the weekend, or because he left Luke Thompson on Jack Ziebell, or because we're going to miss the finals, or because we've given up leads in 5 last quarters this year, although those things are symptoms of what I perceive to be the problem with him.

It's because there is no structure to our game.

It's because our forward line movement and entries are such that we can get 17 consecutive inside 50s without taking a mark inside 50 or particularly looking like taking one.

It's because we have no apparent defensive system that goes beyond running at the ball carrier, resulting in a defence including the AA full back, an AA half back and two small defenders having career years shipping nearly 100 points per game.

It's because there is no apparent system for our kick ins from full back, which has resulted in us spending the last 2 last quarters pinned in defence to the point where it's a relief when the opposition finally kicks a goal so we can get back to the centre and try again.

It's because there is no apparent system from opposition kick ins resulting in momentum sapping coast to coast plays when we are 2 goals up in the last quarter of the most important game of the season.

It's because whenever an opponent is able to get their hands on the ball in a contest, they are one clean handball away from having all the time in the world to find a target because there is no structure to our attack or defense coming out of a contest.

I could live with being where Melbourne are if there appeared to be some sort of plan that players were not good enough or not experienced enough to implement, or if it looked like the players were learning something.

But all I see every week is the same completely directionless footy, with the same players making the mistakes and the team's overall structure falling down in the same places.

I honestly believe that with a better coach we would be at least competing for a top 4 spot with the Geelongs, Freos and Ports of the world.

I don't think we have the depth you think we do to be competing with the likes of Geelong, Freo, Hawthorn or Sydney. Port we are 1-1 this year so anything goes there.

I also don't think we are as talented as you/we think we are. Our back line is brittle and leaking like a sieve. Our forward line relies on Pods (who I love, and who was only there to cover for Tex's return but Sando loves him and keeps him in, even though tex is up and running) and a "I really don't like getting dirty" in JJ. Our midfield is controlled by a bloke who tries to do it all off his own boot, and fails, and a bloke who we all love (Thommo), but groan en masse when he inevitably has yet another clanger resulting in a turn over. We are, I believe - one KPP away in each zone. And while you bemoan structure - every second week we seem to get it spot on. We've looked a million $ at times this year and not so much at others.

 

[Wright Away]

Sando comes into the club after the administration has literally anally rammed the club, with a middle of the road list.
.

Before.