Howard names his three towering heroes

[just maybe]

So are the 'right'. Most people are somewhere in the centre.

Yeh, pretty much the truest statement.

 

[Daytripper]

So are the 'right'. Most people are somewhere in the centre.

Agreed.
Just trying to disprove the below statement.

Half the electorate are 'left'. Your comment is not realistic.

 

[just maybe]

Agreed.
Just trying to disprove the below statement.

I'd actually agree with what MrMeaner said.

Just trying to point out that if stompie wants to use a 'left/right' dichotomy for the Australia population, it's about even.

In a real world sense, most people would be centre or no affiliation at all - ie 'swinging voters' who select whichever party suits them best come the election.

 

[stompie]

I'd actually agree with what MrMeaner said.

Just trying to point out that if stompie wants to use a 'left/right' dichotomy for the Australia population, it's about even.

In a real world sense, most people would be centre or no affiliation at all - ie 'swinging voters' who select whichever party suits them best come the election.

As well as having a great career in international relations, I foresee a great career for you as a campaign strategist for a political party.

In my opinion:

Being onside of the lefties such as Germaine Greer, Robert Manne, the humanities, Greenies etc = a decrease in votes.

Being onside of icons like Shane Warne, Paul Hogan, Pat Rafter, Pro Hart, Steve Irwin, Russel Crowe = an increase in votes.

You are of a different opinion, so we shall agree to disagree.

 

[just maybe]

As well as having a great career in international relations, I foresee a great career for you as a campaign strategist for a political party.

In my opinion:

Being onside of the lefties such as Germaine Greer, Robert Manne, the humanities, Greenies etc = a decrease in votes.

Being onside of icons like Shane Warne, Paul Hogan, Pat Rafter, Pro Hart, Steve Irwin, Russel Crowe = an increase in votes.

You are of a different opinion, so we shall agree to disagree.

Where did I say that? But you seem to think those 'icons' you mentioned are right-wingers.

Talk about assumptions being the mother of all ****-ups.

 

[stompie]

Where did I say that? But you seem to think those 'icons' you mentioned are right-wingers.

Talk about assumptions being the mother of all ****-ups.

My initial point was that alienating the left is a good way to increase one’s election prospects. You then decided to disagree.

I never said the icons are on the right. I just specifically choose names that the left attacks.

You have dug yourself into a hole here.

 

[CoggaRules]

My initial point was that alienating the left is a good way to increase one’s election prospects. You then decided to disagree.

I never said the icons are on the right. I just specifically choose names that the left attacks.

You have dug yourself into a hole here.

naa, more proven way is to suck them into your way of being re-elected, then the voters that were voting left, havent a left to vote for.
Aint that right Kym?

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Yeah how dare he have people he admired.

Sitll he could be worse off and admire dirtbags like this.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Yeah how dare he have people he admired.

Sitll he could be worse off and admire dirtbags like this.

Howard might worship JP II but he is obviously unfamiliar with his encyclical "On Human Work":

Yet the workers' rights cannot be doomed to be the mere result of economic systems aimed at maximum profits. The thing that must shape the whole economy is respect for the workers' rights within each country and all through the world's economy. On Human Work, #17.

 

[stickman11]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/howard-names-his-towering-heroes/2006/10/03/1159641326149.html

what a joke

I thought it would be dopey, grumpy and sleepy.

Guess I was wrong.

4th would be Lassie

 

[CoggaRules]

whateve happened to the guy that you asked what he would have done, when you looked to the heavens, after you were looking for cover when you were caught out lying Johnny? Remember? i think his name was Ghandhi wasnt it?
So why didnt you look to the heavens then and asked what Ronnie would have done in that situation? Ooops, sorry, you did, look what eventuated, but you had to make it sound like you didnt huh?
Can you believe this dude? and people actually vote for him?

 

[medusala]

Still pushing that barrow - how is the Will to Power and the Fuerher as the embodiment of the State consistent with Communist/Socialist ideology. Keep trying comrade

Lenin/Stalin and Mao werent the embodiment of the state?

Look at the policies. They are clearly left wing. How can confiscation of property, profits, communalisation, nationalisation etc be considered right wing?

Compare the policies there with the UK pre war. Chalk and cheese. The UK was right wing, ie low taxes, no universal health care, no welfare state etc.

 

[medusala]

Not when the economic cycle turns.

Financial markets will put up with a bigger CAD than govt deficit. The banks have a better ability to pay back the debt than govts (who frequently resort to printing $). Ability to pay is the big factor. Countries can run consistent CADs and still have good economic growth. The US, UK and Australia are evidence of this. Australia could cut the CAD if it wanted to (ala Keating and the recession we had to have) by raising rates and decreasing consumption. Recession would result. Foreign debt at 50% of GDP is managable. Particularly given there is no net govt debt.

Again look at Europe if you really think that govt debt and private debt are equal. 10% unemployment and very slow growth rates arent the answer.

In time this government will be rated worse than Whitlam's and that is saying something.

No it wont. Its unlikely in my lifetime that any govt will ever be considered as bad as Whitlam. The one thing Howard can be congratulated one is retiring debt rather than as Keating and the vast majority of govts around the world did which was to simply waste the proceeds of privatisation on recurrent spending.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Howard might worship JP II but he is obviously unfamiliar with his encyclical "On Human Work":

Yet the workers' rights cannot be doomed to be the mere result of economic systems aimed at maximum profits. The thing that must shape the whole economy is respect for the workers' rights within each country and all through the world's economy. On Human Work, #17.

That was easy for the Pope to say because he didn't have to deal with trade unions.

 

[Pessimistic]

Someone suggested the majority is in the centre, neither left nor right.

BUT

That centre would have values far to the left of any soceity in the pre-war years. Its all relative.

Mybe the left is less relevant because the majority of its work has been achieved.

PS unions are not neccesarily left wing they are organizaions of self interest, in a negotiating sense.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Lenin/Stalin and Mao werent the embodiment of the state?

Look at the policies. They are clearly left wing. How can confiscation of property, profits, communalisation, nationalisation etc be considered right wing?

Compare the policies there with the UK pre war. Chalk and cheese. The UK was right wing, ie low taxes, no universal health care, no welfare state etc.

Personality cult is not communist - the rich Junkers still made heaps of money

 

[stompie]

Someone suggested the majority is in the centre, neither left nor right.

BUT

That centre would have values far to the left of any soceity in the pre-war years. Its all relative.

Mybe the left is less relevant because the majority of its work has been achieved.

PS unions are not neccesarily left wing they are organizaions of self interest, in a negotiating sense.

I'd agree with most of what you said here, except I think society always needs a left-wing. The problem that I see in Australia is that the "left" are still fighting for what has already been achieved, and thus is not focussing on other issues that are of importance. To be honest, I really don't consider the lefties in Australia to be left-wing. In my mind, a true left-winger is not a chanter, and is not a moraliser.

 

[medusala]

Personality cult is not communist -

Beg to differ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

The criticism of personality cults often focuses on the regimes of Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Il-Sung and his son, Kim Jong-Il.

 

[evo]

The arn't real communists though apparantly,Med.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Who could be surprised at the little old mans heroes being Reagan, Thatcher & the Pope. How could anyones hero be Reagan? The guy was a cowboy actor who was hired by the Republicans to read the script and play along. Some of the stuff that came out of his mouth would give King George II a run for his money in the stupidity stakes. He chose this clown over actual heroes like Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela.

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/

And then he goes on to attack communists. I mean this guy is seriously living in the 1950's. When was the last time he had his faculties checked because he is definitely not the full quid.

And med, if you honestly believe that Hitler was left wing then you dont have any clue. Were Mussolini and Franco left wing as well? What about Saddam? Has there ever existed a right wing government that wasnt evil and guilty of great crimes against humanity? Or are all totalitarian regimes left wing?

 

[medusala]

Some of the stuff that came out of his mouth would give King George II a run for his money in the stupidity stakes.

Presumably you mean George III?

He chose this clown over actual heroes like Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela.

Irrelevant people internationally.

And med, if you honestly believe that Hitler was left wing then you dont have any clue.

How many times do I have to explain this: Hitler was head of a socialist party, which had a blatantly socialist manifesto and carried out socialist policies. What possible logic can you have to argue differently? Because generations of lefties have attempted to label him as evil (whilst conveniently glossing over Stalin and Mao)?

Were Mussolini and Franco left wing as well?

hard to define, no.

What about Saddam?

yes

Has there ever existed a right wing government that wasnt evil and guilty of great crimes against humanity? Or are all totalitarian regimes left wing?

Franco, Pinochet, Salazar. The left do tend to have a monopoly though.

 

[camsmith]

Who could be surprised at the little old mans heroes being Reagan, Thatcher & the Pope. How could anyones hero be Reagan?

He was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet regime.. That's enough to be a hero in my book.

 

[medusala]

He was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet regime.. That's enough to be a hero in my book.

Ronny was a great man, who intuitively understood the capacity of govt to engage in muppetry on a biblical scale.

Some great quotes:

Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it

My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes

Recession is when a neighbour loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

He was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet regime.. That's enough to be a hero in my book.

Do you salute a picture of Ronnie and Dubya when you wake up every morning? What about Nixon, is he one of your heroes as well? Need I remind you (and get JM started) about Ronnies contra wars in Latin America? Running arms and drugs, terrorism, death squads, dictatorships and coups.

I guess Gorbachev just happened to play no role in the opening up of the Soviet Union? The funny thing about America and the west is we are beocming more like the Soviet Union every day while Russia is becoming more like the west. The US is heading down the same Soviet path of ever increasing military spending while hospitals and schools lay in ruin and slums continue to rise.

Presumably you mean George III?

Irrelevant people internationally.

How many times do I have to explain this: Hitler was head of a socialist party, which had a blatantly socialist manifesto and carried out socialist policies. What possible logic can you have to argue differently? Because generations of lefties have attempted to label him as evil (whilst conveniently glossing over Stalin and Mao)?

Hard to define, no.

yes

Franco, Pinochet, Salazar. The left do tend to have a monopoly though.

King and Mandela were hardly irrelevant. And even if they were, that doesnt preclude them from being 'heroes' especially compared with that mental defective illiterate bozo b-grade cowboy actor who only got where he was by naming names in the 50's.

But then you think Hitler and Saddam are communists.

The left have had their share of brutal regimes, but the right is no less despotic and violent. Historically the left has stood for liberalism, decentralised government and the equality of man, the right stands for oppression, centralised government and heirarchical society. Extreme left wing is anarchism, extreme right wing is fascism, totalitarianism and communism.

And no I meant King George II. Bush Sr and Jr.

 

[medusala]

. Historically the left has stood for liberalism, decentralised government and the equality of man,

The left has always been more about statism and centralised power. Liberalism? Hardly.

As for the equality of man, Churchill once described socialism as "the equal sharing of misery".

One of three.