Howard names his three towering heroes

[Demonic Ascent]

The left has always been more about statism and centralised power. Liberalism? Hardly.

As for the equality of man, Churchill once described socialism as "the equal sharing of misery".

One of three.

The left has long been the inspiration for liberalism. If you can take your mind off the economics and corporate principles for once and find I am talking about issues such as human and civil rights etc. I guess it was the right wing that argued for an end to segregation in America and the left wing that beat, killed, shot at and hosed down African Americans. Are groups like the KKK left wing or right wing? Were the Eureka Stockade rebels right wing as well? What about the unions who stood up to corporate and government power to push for legislation on workers rights?

As for Churchill he didnt like Hitler murdering ethnic minorities but didnt seem to have a problem ordering their deaths himself. I dont really put much weight in the thoughts of a right wing murderous thug.

 

[medusala]

I guess it was the right wing that argued for an end to segregation in America and the left wing that beat, killed, shot at and hosed down African Americans. Are groups like the KKK left wing or right wing? Were the Eureka Stockade rebels right wing as well? What about the unions who stood up to corporate and government power to push for legislation on workers rights?

The Eureka rebels were part of the mob that kicked the daylights out of Chinese miners. Those same unionists formed a party that introduced White Australia.

As for Churchill he didnt like Hitler murdering ethnic minorities but didnt seem to have a problem ordering their deaths himself. I dont really put much weight in the thoughts of a right wing murderous thug.

You really lose all credibility when you call Churchill a murderous thug. Did more for freedom this century than any other man.

Easily.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The Eureka rebels were part of the mob that kicked the daylights out of Chinese miners. Those same unionists formed a party that introduced White Australia.

Fair enough. I'm not an expert on Eureka (thanks public education system of Australia) so I'll have to take your word on it.

You really lose all credibility when you call Churchill a murderous thug. Did more for freedom this century than any other man.

Easily.

So I guess when calling for the gassing of the Kurds and Palestinians, as they were subhumans, he was doing so to advance the cause of freedom?

 

[medusala]

So I guess when calling for the gassing of the Kurds and Palestinians, as they were subhumans, he was doing so to advance the cause of freedom?

Yes, freedom from religious muppetry just as he did when he rode into the battle of Omdurman against the dervishes of the Mahdi.

 

[FrediKanoute]

My 3 towering figures of the 20th century are:

Adolf Hitler - for doing his utmost to ensure that we all united against him and everything he stood for.

Fidel Castro - you have to have balls to have a communist revolution when ur that close to the US and still be there long after the President's who threatened to bring you down have long gone.

Ossie Bin Laden - for having the balls to play the US at their own game and bring the ideological war to their doorstep. He called the US bluff and figured that if the US were prepared to double cross, do dodgy deals then he was prepared to pretty muchdo the same.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

The banks have a better ability to pay back the debt than govts (who frequently resort to printing $).

Sheer and utter bollocks. While Costello and Howard self-flagellate over the budget surpluses which have fallen into their laps Australia's total foreign debt has grown by 5 times that surplus. The massive increase is effectively underwritten by the Reserve Bank, hence in essence the debt is no different to Govt debt when things go pear-shaped as they inevitably will.

 

[medusala]

Sheer and utter bollocks. While Costello and Howard self-flagellate over the budget surpluses which have fallen into their laps Australia's total foreign debt has grown by 5 times that surplus. The massive increase is effectively underwritten by the Reserve Bank, hence in essence the debt is no different to Govt debt when things go pear-shaped as they inevitably will.

Complete nonsense. Have you been at the JM school of economics?

Cast your mind back to the early 90's when Westpac was stuffed. The RBA didnt bail them out. By any measure the banks are all in much better shape than they were then. IF (and its a damn big IF) a bank fell over the RBA would get another bank(/s) to buy them, up to an including a foreign bank. This is what happened with SBV. This is also what happened when LTCM was seen as a threat.

Foreign Debt is 50% of gdp. Its manageable.

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

Complete nonsense. Have you been at the JM school of economics?

Are you still an academic? Have you ever had a real job?

Foreign Debt is 50% of gdp. Its manageable.

Only if the borrowing stops growing at record levels and the one-in-a-100 year resources boom continues on ad infinitum

The reality is that the massive expansion in borrowings has been largely real estate driven and debt servicing commitments are already historically high. With interest rates again on the rise consumers are at risk of copping it in the neck one way or another. It may be via one or more of higher interest rates, job losses, forced house sales or increased taxes. Regardless the Govt and Reserve bank control the agenda between them.

 

[medusala]

Are you still an academic? Have you ever had a real job?

I am not an academic.

Only if the borrowing stops growing at record levels and the one-in-a-100 year resources boom continues on ad infinitum

One of the reasons for the CAD relates to mining co's importing a heap of equipment. There is a lag between getting this and increasing production which will take a few years and should show in export stats which have already showed a bit of improvement. IIRC it was NMWBloods who either wrote or posted an article on here stating the change the foreign listing of mining co's like CRA, MIM etc had on the way CAD was accounted for.

The reality is that the massive expansion in borrowings has been largely real estate driven and debt servicing commitments are already historically high. With interest rates again on the rise consumers are at risk of copping it in the neck one way or another.

There are plenty of stats on this and the RBA keeps a close eye on it. Something like 1 in 3 houses dont have a mortgage on them. Most owner occupiers are well ahead of their repayment schedules and can afford interest rate rises. Most of the highly leverage/risky loans is with investors in units and non conforming loans (very few of which are with banks).

 

[evo]

And med, if you honestly believe that Hitler was left wing then you dont have any clue.

Check this out Demonic

.We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education … We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents … The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good.

Sounds like a fairly stock standard left wing motherhood statement wouldn't you say?


-From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920

 

[Jumpin' Jimmy]

There are plenty of stats on this and the RBA keeps a close eye on it. Something like 1 in 3 houses dont have a mortgage on them. Most owner occupiers are well ahead of their repayment schedules and can afford interest rate rises. Most of the highly leverage/risky loans is with investors in units and non conforming loans (very few of which are with banks).

So two-thirds of houses do have mortgages.

Housing interest rates are the highest in 6 years, with the basic variable rate 30% above 2002 levels. Further increases are inevitable. Not a great situatiion when Australian house prices are more overvalued than any other advanced country according to the OECD. http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/house-prices-world-highest/2005/11/30/1133311106610.html

AUSTRALIA has by far the most overvalued houses in the Western world, with prices 52 per cent higher than justified by rental values, the OECD says.

In a new analysis of the housing boom sweeping developed nations, the OECD also says the price of housing relative to incomes is 50 per cent higher in Australia than in other countries as a group.

The Paris-based think tank warned that historically, most booms in housing prices have ended in busts which, at worst, wiped out all the rise in prices during the boom.

While no country was named as vulnerable to a housing-led economic bust, on each of its three measures, Australia was one of four countries where house prices were most out of line with fundamentals.

Of 15 OECD countries compared in the study, Australia had the highest prices relative to rental levels, the third-highest prices relative to incomes, and the fourth-highest levels of household debt relative to incomes.

"If house prices were to adjust downward, possibly in response to an increase in interest rates or for other reasons, the historical record suggests the drops (in real terms) might be large, and that the process could be protracted," the OECD warned.

A correction of these inflated prices could generate an economic downturn, affecting growth, employment, government budgets and bank lending, the OECD said. "If financial intermediaries (banks) misjudge risks, the potential for credit and asset booms to derail and turn into busts is increased."

Its warning comes as a grim report on welfare services says the struggle to find affordable housing is now affecting middle-class Australians as well as those on low incomes.

The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare said 1.7 million people were in "housing stress" in 2004, spending more than 30 per cent of their income on accommodation.

Making it worse, demand for affordable housing had risen at the same time as the public housing stock in Australia had dropped from 372,000 in 1995-96 to 345,000 in June 2004.

The report said average household debt had skyrocketed as a proportion of household disposable income. From 49 per cent of income in 1990-91, the debt ratio trebled to 143 per cent in 2004.

"The major component of this rise in household debt has been the even greater increase in borrowing for housing," the report said. "Such borrowing has grown more than four-fold in real terms since 1990."

Labor and the Democrats blamed the Federal Government for the growing levels of housing stress and debt. Labor housing spokesman Kim Carr said the institute's report, Australia's Welfare 2005, confirmed that housing affordability had fallen to an all-time low.

"In 2003 the Productivity Commission recommended that a national public inquiry be established to examine the housing needs of low-income residents. But the Howard Government rejected that recommendation", Senator Carr said.

Former Democrats leader Andrew Bartlett said the Government's tax breaks for investors "have played a big part in Australia gaining this unwanted status of having such excessively expensive and unaffordable housing".

"The price of housing, and the ability of every citizen to gain access to an affordable home should be a fundamental priority for all governments," he said.

The OECD report warned that the current boom had lasted twice as long as past housing booms, increasing the risk of a bust. "The cumulative increases (in prices) have far exceeded those of previous upturns", it said.

LINKS
www.oecd.org; www.aihw.gov.au.

OVER- VALUATION OF HOUSES (% in 2004)
Our over-valued home Housing debt (% of income in 2003)
Australia 52 120
UK 33 105
Netherlands 20 2018
Ireland 15 92
Spain 13 67
Denmark 13 188
Canada 13 77
New Zealand 8 129
USA 2 78
Japan -21 58
Germany -26 83
SOURCE: OECD ECONOMIC OUTLOOK.
.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yes, freedom from religious muppetry just as he did when he rode into the battle of Omdurman against the dervishes of the Mahdi.

So mass-gassings are OK with you now? I hope you dont use the excuse of Saddam gassing his own people as a reason to invade Iraq.

 

[stompie]

Check this out Demonic

.We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education … We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents … The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good.

Sounds like a fairly stock standard left wing motherhood statement wouldn't you say?


-From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920

With all the left-wing ideology being pushed in Australian schools, I’d say this is an especially important piece of history that also needs to be taught. It really shows where left-wing ideology can lead.

 

[just maybe]

My initial point was that alienating the left is a good way to increase one’s election prospects. You then decided to disagree.

I never said the icons are on the right. I just specifically choose names that the left attacks.

They aren't names the left attacks. That's something you've made up.

You have dug yourself into a hole here.

No, really, I haven't.

You're the one who has made a grossly biased opinionated statement, been unable to produce a single thing to back it up, tried to claim things that have no relevancy to left-right debate as some sort of proof of your argument, and are now claiming I have dug myself a hole.

You have floundered so badly you probably can't get back on course.

Prejudice is not a good way to claim proof, stompie. Remember that.

 

[stompie]

They aren't names the left attacks. That's something you've made up.



No, really, I haven't.

You're the one who has made a grossly biased opinionated statement, been unable to produce a single thing to back it up, tried to claim things that have no relevancy to left-right debate as some sort of proof of your argument, and are now claiming I have dug myself a hole.

You have floundered so badly you probably can't get back on course.

Prejudice is not a good way to claim proof, stompie. Remember that.

I've been warned by Monkster that if I can't say anything nice about you, then I shouldn't say anything at all. I'm afraid your irrationality means I am just going to have to ignore you from now on.

 

[just maybe]

Irrelevant people internationally.

Stupid comment. Nelson Mandela is far from irrelevant internationally. In fact not just stupid, but astounding.

How many times do I have to explain this: Hitler was head of a socialist party, which had a blatantly socialist manifesto and carried out socialist policies. What possible logic can you have to argue differently? Because generations of lefties have attempted to label him as evil (whilst conveniently glossing over Stalin and Mao)?

So because the Liberals have some socialist policies, they're socialist?

Hitler was extreme right-wing. You are arguing alone if you pretend otherwise.

 

[just maybe]

I've been warned by Monkster that if I can't say anything nice about you, then I shouldn't say anything at all. I'm afraid your irrationality means I am just going to have to ignore you from now on.

That's a weak comeback.

I have responded to you without abuse. If you cannot manage that, then you deserve whatever Monkster gives you.

I suspect you are leaving simply because your argument has been shot to pieces. Tends to happen when prejudice is the foundation.

 

[just maybe]

He was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet regime.. That's enough to be a hero in my book.

Two things arise here

1. Reagan had not all that much to do with the downfall of the Soviet regime. The majority of impetus was internal.

2. So a vicious war criminal is your hero because of a tenuous link to the downfall of a Soviet regime?

Hey, wait! I'm sure Saddam did something noble! Hence we can make him your hero too!

 

[just maybe]

Yes, freedom from religious muppetry just as he did when he rode into the battle of Omdurman against the dervishes of the Mahdi.

Wow, that's spin.

Obviously med supports Saddam gassing Kurds too then. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Remind me to bookmark this blatant support of genocide by medusala.

 

[just maybe]

With all the left-wing ideology being pushed in Australian schools, I’d say this is an especially important piece of history that also needs to be taught. It really shows where left-wing ideology can lead.

Er...extreme right-wing fascism.

That makes sense as an argument.

 

[just maybe]

Complete nonsense. Have you been at the JM school of economics?

How petty. Is this because you couldn't pull together an argument on oil?

 

[Monkster]

How petty. Is this because you couldn't pull together an argument on oil?

I agree it is petty, stick the topic guys.

 

[CoggaRules]

Check this out Demonic

.We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education … We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents … The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good.

Sounds like a fairly stock standard left wing motherhood statement wouldn't you say?


-From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920

come on evo, you should know better than that dude.
How do you get into a position of power by selling your true ideology?
You sell the people what they want to buy and when they buy it, you are in and they cant do Jack, when its not what they bought.
Johhny plays that card all the time man, or do we go down the path of the I will not dos.....etc that he promised.

 

[geelong_boy]

He was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet regime.. That's enough to be a hero in my book.

What role did Reagan play in this?

 

[skilts]

All I can come up with is the twin towers of the World Trade Centre. What's the third one? I'll have a stab and say the Rialto.