Hubris

[LongBomb]

Considering the similarity between our loss yesterday with the Cats loss in '08 it will be very interesting to see if we as a supporter group handle this in the same way (years of complaining and bitterness). Something tells me not. I for one am on one level happy for the Swans despite concurrently feeling that we were beaten by an inferior team. Everything I've heard coming from the Hawks board echoes a similar sentiment. The Cats sense of entitlement in '08 far exceeded anything Hawthorn has displayed this year on any other. Ill be over this pretty quickly and (as one Hawthorn poster put it) ready to repeat the efforts of the years proceeding our last premiership defeat .... going back to back the following 2 years.

Oh of course Hawthorn supporters will handle it better. Hawthorn good / Geelong bad - we get it!

 

[jacko57]

isnt it funny how all fans tend to dial in, a particular time line , to suit their argument. we all do it but it does get tiresome.

You're right. We should just all agree on 1975 as a good time to start any comparisons.

 

[jacko57]

Hawthorn is close to taking over from Carlton with their sense of entitlement.

yes, well, they deserve to!

 

[bugalugs213]

Hey dumb campaigner, old players sprouting off and giving their opinion have little to do with how a team performs on the day.
Hawks lost okay along with 17 other teams they're shit we get it

 

[Chewy]

You can see from the article that Wallace, Schwab and Crawford were asked their opinion of Hawthorn's future if they were to win this year's flag. All them attached the proviso, "Should they win on Saturday, blah, blah, blah...." and were referring to things such as complacency and hunger. That was the line of questioning from Rohan Connolly and they gave their opinions. Probably none of them realised other ex-Hawthorn players were also being quoted for the article and were being mischievously cobbled together as though it represented the HAWTHORN VIEWPOINT.

None of these people speak for Hawthorn. They are former players who all work in the media and speak for themselves. You can listen to them give their opinions on any issue in football and none of them represent the "Hawthorn opinion". Just three former player/coaches trying to make a living. Anyone who was actually connected with Hawthorn would've laughed at Connolly and said "Nah mate, one step at a time. We've still gotta win this year's Grand Final."

Rohan Connolly himself filled in the spaces of his COOL STORY with paragraphs like this one:

The trio baulked at suggestions Clarkson's team could build a dynasty capable of rivalling Hawthorn's golden era in the '80s. But if this group wins tomorrow, and then adds one or two premierships in the next three years, it might still be ranked with the greatest teams of the modern era.​

These are Rohan Connolly's words. Not the words of ex-Hawthorn people or current Hawthorn people. See the clever way he connects the 1st and 2nd sentences to give the impression it was Wallace, Schwab and Crawford who made that single, bold statement. ​

​

The headline writer seems to have focused on this idea of Connolly's and decided to run with this as his theme for the headline. When the headline says HAWTHORN "ON VERGE OF GREATNESS" they are basically quoting the author of the article. Kind of a neat trick to add the quotation marks and make it sound as though Harry Hawthorn himself said these words.​

​

I think it's both funny and sad how hacks in the media can write up an article, grab a few meaningless quotes from ex-players, fill in the gaps with their own rubbish and then have some headline writer slap a provocative catchy title over it and voila, average people with average IQs read it, consume it and have their beliefs shaped by it.​

​

People believe anything they read. People will only see what they wanna see. People are stupid.​

There's your hubris ​

 

[hk89]

Oh of course Hawthorn supporters will handle it better. Hawthorn good / Geelong bad - we get it!

Lets see, your 'other teams' is listed as 'laughing at stkilda' and your location 'Geelong 119 d Pies 81'
is an outright gloat. Troll much? A well adjusted supporting group would be happy with the run Geelong have had over the last few years, instead they seem to spend an inordinate amount of energy invested in gloating, and rubbing their hands together at the misfortune of other teams. I love the Hawthorn threads on the Geelong board right now, well and truly confirms the obsession. Over 2008? Yeah right. You think we'll be gloating over a Sydney GF loss against a third party team in 4 years time, in the same way your lot are with the Hawk's loss? I seriously doubt it. 2008, four years on, and apparently still burning, despite all the protestations to the contrary.

 

[seysearles]

Oh of course Hawthorn supporters will handle it better. Hawthorn good / Geelong bad - we get it!

Well lets just put it this way .... you guys handled it very very very ... very poorly. Please feel free to judge us in the ensuing months.

 

[fpm84]

Well lets just put it this way .... you guys handled it very very very ... very poorly. Please feel free to judge us in the ensuing months.

Just so you know;

- Hawthorn fans still feel aggrieved that Geelong supporters reacted badly after 2008 and called it a 'Bradbury premiership';
- Geelong fans still feel aggrieved that Hawthorn supporters cared more about rubbing salt in the wounds than celebrating their own success in 2008, and the fact they still gloat about it despite Geelong having won two flags since.

Neither supporter base will ever see eye to eye on this.

There were some reasonable Hawks supporters offering commiserations after '08 and likewise, Cats supporters dropping by your board with kind words. It's unfair to tarnish both supporter groups with the same brush.

 

[seysearles]

Just so you know;

- Hawthorn fans still feel aggrieved that Geelong supporters reacted badly after 2008 and called it a 'Bradbury premiership';
- Geelong fans still feel aggrieved that Hawthorn supporters cared more about rubbing salt in the wounds than celebrating their own success in 2008, and the fact they still gloat about it despite Geelong having won two flags since.

Neither supporter base will ever see eye to eye on this.

There were some reasonable Hawks supporters offering commiserations after '08 and likewise, Cats supporters dropping by your board with kind words. It's unfair to tarnish both supporter groups with the same brush.

I'm pretty sure that the root of this animosity is the fact that you felt hard done by for losing an un-losable flag. You may say that the hatred comes from Hawthorn supporters being bad winners. Either way losing is in it's nature humbling. We're copping it right now from just about every supporter group (unlike you in '08). The point i'm making is that I don't believe that we will hold a vendetta against Sydney in the same way you guys have towards us. Time may prove me wrong but its not the way I feel right now and it's not the impression i am getting from my fellow supporters. I would like to think we will rise above it. I certainly couldn't see us reveling in another team beating Sydney in next seasons grand final.

 

[Grizzly_82]

I'm pretty sure that the root of this animosity is the fact that you felt hard done by for losing an un-losable flag. You may say that the hatred comes from Hawthorn supporters being bad winners. Either way losing is in it's nature humbling. We're copping it right now from just about every supporter group (unlike you in '08). The point i'm making is that I don't believe that we will hold a vendetta against Sydney in the same way you guys have towards us. Time may prove me wrong but its not the way I feel right now and it's not the impression i am getting from my fellow supporters. I would like to think we will rise above it. I certainly couldn't see us reveling in another team beating Sydney in next seasons grand final.

Hawks fans constantly brings up 2008 and tries to devalue every one of our flags by saying we played against inferior teams.

Enjoy your karma

 

[TeamHurley]

Geelong were a great team.
Hawks are not.
They should show a little humility.

 

[hk89]

Hawks fans constantly brings up 2008

Yeah, but usually just after a bunch of cats fans flock to a Hawk's related thread, posting a bunch of negative shit. I'm pretty confident if Sydney lose a close GF in 4 years time, that Hawthorn bigfooty supporters will not be starting a "Your favourite Sydney Board Posts" on the Hawthorn board to track down and make fun of posts by Sydney supporters feeling the pain of the loss. I'm also confident that even if such a thread was started, we wouldn't have Hawthorn supporters dumb enough to mention in every second post (in a thread about Sydney) how obsessed the other guys were with us. Complete and utter lack of both class and insight.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Just so you know;

- Hawthorn fans still feel aggrieved that Geelong supporters reacted badly after 2008 and called it a 'Bradbury premiership';
- Geelong fans still feel aggrieved that Hawthorn supporters cared more about rubbing salt in the wounds than celebrating their own success in 2008, and the fact they still gloat about it despite Geelong having won two flags since.

Neither supporter base will ever see eye to eye on this.

There were some reasonable Hawks supporters offering commiserations after '08 and likewise, Cats supporters dropping by your board with kind words. It's unfair to tarnish both supporter groups with the same brush.

That's a start fpm84, but it goes deeper than that both on Big Footy and to a slightly lesser degree in the wider footy community.
*sits in rocking chair*

Go back to the infamous 1985 game at Princes Park when Jacko was reported on something like 6 different charges, and Leigh Matthews broke an unsuspecting Neville Bruns' jaw.
I was there that day, just a kid (must've been 9), I liked the excitement of a bit of biffo as much as any lad but it was a weird, horrible atmosphere that day.
Both teams can share blame for the way things played out on field that day, Matthews descent into thuggery the brutal denouement on a dark afternoon.

Resentment lingered, Bruns broke the players 'code' and gave a damning testimony at the tribunal, Matthews was deregistered.

After that, for a long time Hawthorn had the wood on Geelong.
Looking over the head-to-head records, Hawthorn defeated Geelong *11 times in a row* between 1985-1991.

They prevented us from making the finals in 1987 in the final round at Kardinia Park (I was there too; very upset), Geelong played out of their skins for three quarters, but Hawthorn were too good in the end; although they did get one veeeery contentious 'deliberate out of bounds' free kick, which Dunstall duly converted - I don't think I had *ever* seen a 'deliberate' free kick paid in my short life to that point.
Anyway, Geelong lost, Hawthorn went on to lose the '87 GF to Carlton.

The two teams only met twice in 1989, yet both games were stone classics - both Hawthorn victories, the 2nd of which resulted in a flag to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn retained their knack for knocking over Geelong in both significant and close games (e.g. the 1991 semi-final at Waverley, or the 2000 elimination final, which capped a five-game winning streak against Geelong with a combined winning margain of just 59 points)

So far, so much suck for Geelong.

But the Footy Gods smiled upon Geelong supporters in 2007.
In many ways these things became irrelevant to me that day.
Hawthorn fans were very quick to remind us that we had beaten every team except them that year, though.

Then 2008; a year in which the simmering Big Footy cyber-war blew up (it was Skynet all over again).

Hawthorn fans have pointed out that a lot of Geelong supporters on this site reacted poorly.
I remember that period and I have to say quite a few did, unfortunately.
The term 'Bradbury-premiership' became popular. I never liked it.
It was a cold comfort to me, it was a line of argument I never personally bothered pursuing as it only led to more humiliation.

At this stage, Hawthorn supporters had quite a lot to be cocky about, no doubt.

But Geelong, the club, fought back onfield in a - in my opinion - gritty manner, to win another two flags, marking the clubs most successful era.

Along the way the Cats chalked up a series of memorable, stirring wins against Hawthorn - a lot of close, tight, contentious games. 9 of them and counting.

For a long time, too long, Hawthorn fans were very quick to bring up the spectre of 2008, e.g. 'you can have your win, I still have the memories of '08 and that's what matters.' Words to that effect.
After a while it became 'if I had to trade (insert #) h&a losses for a Premiership I would'
Or, 'wait til we play you in a final'.

It took Tom Hawkins after-the-siren heart-breaker to silence many of the haters, but by then the damage was well and truly done in the eyes of many Geelong fans on this site, and to a lesser extent those in the community (I know my fair share of Hawthorn supporters in RL, with three particularly rabid family members in that mix).

During this post-'08 environment, it is my submission that a hardcore contingent of recalcitrant Big Footy Hawthorn supporters undertook an unspoken campaign to smear, discredit, disrespect and undermine *anything* Geelong achieved.

Unfortunately, they have had to churn out many, many words of anti-Geelong propaganda, because the Cats won plenty of big games, plenty of finals and two flags during the time that this online, footy-centric version of the Cold War has played out.

It has always been Hawthorn supporters leading the chorus when it comes to threads on Selwood ducking, or Johnson/Chapman diving, or the *whole team* playing for free kicks - as a general rule they have given us zero respect - check out recent main board (not Bay 13) threads on Wojcinski and Scarlett which had their fair share of Hawthorn supporters taking cheap shots at them. Par for the course.

It has been a relentless and frankly tiresome tide of negativity toward Geelong from them; akin to the curent political paradigm. Perhaps that is fitting from supporters of a team formerly run by Jeff Kennett.

So, there is a potted history from a Geelong supporter.
Of course Hawthorn fans will have their version of events.
And so it goes.

I will say this : the great thing about Australia and one of the good things left about the AFL is the capacity for opposing teams' supporters to co-mingle.
There is passion, vitriol, emotions run high; but rarely is there really serious trouble.
I hope things stay that way.

Anyway, I personally have no problem with having my fun, within reason, when it comes to Hawthorn blowing their chance in 2012; I have no doubt they would be ****-a-hoop if the roles were reversed.
I haven't trolled their board, and have kept in perspective both Geelong's lack of success this season, and also the wider fate of the Grand Final day loser; it's is such a hollow, horrible feeling.
Without giving any specific sympathy to Hawthorn or it's supporters, it is a sad fact of sport that the loser in any Grand Final-type event suffers more misery and scrutiny than the also-rans they defeated along the way to their ultimate failure.

Perhaps the loss will be the force-fed humble pie that these fans need to learn humility and dignity in victory and defeat.

I don't really have a problem with any other team in the comp, or their supporters, personally.
Even Freo .

 

[laminex]

They stole one in 2008 so this makes up for it I guess.

Yes winning is steeling and taking joy in others pain is the big footy way. What a bunch out little dicks we have here.

 

[seysearles]

Hawks fans constantly brings up 2008 and try to devalue every one of our flags by saying we played against inferior teams.

Enjoy your karma

Are you sure about that or was it just the fact that you were so pissed off about losing that you were ultra sensitive to any comment made about '08? Anyhow in terms of pinched flags we're even now (pinched one/had one pinched). I'll settle for that. No hard feelings. So if you're still an angry elf you can go take it up with the Swans.

 

[Masto]

Yes winning is steeling and taking joy in others pain is the big footy way. What a bunch out little dicks we have here.

Nothing I said suggested taking joy in others pain. Maybe your little dick is making you paranoid and thinking strange things.

 

[laminex]

Nothing I said suggested taking joy in others pain. Maybe your little dick is making you paranoid and thinking strange things.

I wasn't taking a shot just at you mate relax yr vagina a little.

 

[hk89]

It has always been Hawthorn supporters leading the chorus when it comes to threads on Selwood ducking, or Johnson/Chapman diving, or the *whole team* playing for free kicks - as a general rule they have given us zero respect - check out recent main board (not Bay 13) threads on Wojcinski and Scarlett which had their fair share of Hawthorn supporters taking cheap shots at them. Par for the course.

Great post up to that point, but loses its way from there on.

You can't bring up the admitted over abundance of Hawk posters in threads negative towards the cats without acknowledging exactly the same phenomena in anti-Hawk threads. It is laughable the imbalance of cat posters you see in "Buddy is selfish", "Rioli is shit", etc etc threads. Some neutral supporter did stats on this in Bay 13 threads, and found Cats were definitely the more obsessed of the two groups. You'll also find the majority of these "what about 2008" retorts are made in these anti-hawk, cat-wank-fest threads.

Anyway, I personally have no problem with having my fun, within reason, when it comes to Hawthorn blowing their chance in 2012; I have no doubt they would be ****-a-hoop if the roles were reversed.

Certainly, and I admit to being quite happy to see Freo knock Geelong out of the finals this year (partly for rivalry reasons, but partly because I thought it eased our path to making the GF, given how we've performed against Geelong since 08).

Perhaps the loss will be the force-fed humble pie that these fans need to learn humility and dignity in victory and defeat.

Comparing the Hawthorn and Cat boards right now, I'd say the Hawthorn board has the expected amount of teeth gnashing expected after losing a close GF where your team started favourite with the bookies. The vast majority of Hawk posters seem to think they were beaten by a better team, a bridge many many Cat fans were not able to get over in 2008. The Geelong board on the other hand is sporting several classless threads revelling in a loss they had no part in orchestrating, and had no direct benefit from. Looks cheap and nasty, and leaves one wondering why Cat fans bother denying their Hawthorn obsession. Sure we'd gloat a bit if the situation was reversed, that is the nature of a rivalry, but the Cat threads I'm looking at seem way over the top, and makes them look way more psychologically scarred than they should be after winning 3 recent flags. Certainly a massive lack of dignity being shown on the Geelong board right now, so I doubt they've learnt much from their 2008 melt down. There are some quality cat posters who have expressed their distaste at these threads, and kudos to them, but unfortunately they are in the minority.

 

[Tatts22]

Are you sure about that or was it just the fact that you were so pissed off about losing that you were ultra sensitive to any comment made about '08? Anyhow in terms of pinched flags we're even now (pinched one/had one pinched). I'll settle for that. No hard feelings. So if you're still an angry elf you can go take it up with the Swans.

I've never felt Hawks 'pinched' one in 2008. In fact on the day as devastated as I was that we had lost I didn't feel too bad - I had several Hawks friends and on the day I felt happy for them - 2007 made the pain that little bit less at least I now knew what it felt like to win one.

However in the days, months & years after I felt that a lot of Hawks fans were poor winners & didn't waste an opportunity to rub in how they pinched it or how the Cats choked & so many Hawks fan don't miss a chance to tell me that none of the Cats flags are worthy due to inferior opposition - apparently the Cats have been the only decent opposition over that 5 year period - as Hawks were the only worthy winners

There are a few teams I like a lot less than the Hawks but the fans are the reason I really didn't want Hawks to win this season - they would have been even more unbearable with their boasting & bragging. I also happen to really like Sydney so for me it was a no brainer who I was supporting yesterday.

My point is that Hawks fans always say that Cats fans don't like them purely because Hawks beat us in 2008 - it's not the losing that hurts (I lived through the 80's & 90's - I'm used to that ) it's having to put up with the obnoxious gloating and the lack of credit or respect that they gave to Geelong in the subsequent years.

I was hoping a loss would bring some humility to those fans.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Comparing the Hawthorn and Cat boards right now, I'd say the Hawthorn board has the expected amount of teeth gnashing expected after losing a close GF where your team started favourite with the bookies. The vast majority of Hawk posters seem to think they were beaten by a better team, a bridge many many Cat fans were not able to get over in 2008. The Geelong board on the other hand is sporting several classless threads revelling in a loss they had no part in orchestrating, and had no direct benefit from. Looks cheap and nasty, and leaves one wondering why Cat fans bother denying their Hawthorn obsession. Sure we'd gloat a bit if the situation was reversed, that is the nature of a rivalry, but the Cat threads I'm looking at seem way over the top, and makes them look way more psychologically scarred than they should be after winning 3 recent flags. Certainly a massive lack of dignity being shown on the Geelong board right now, so I doubt they've learnt much from their 2008 melt down. There are some quality cat posters who have expressed their distaste at these threads, and kudos to them, but unfortunately they are in the minority.

It's not malicious, or 'nasty' - as you put it, to simply post on a forum that you're happy to see a rival lose. Well for most anyway. There were threads on almost every other team board last year revelling in Collingwood's GF loss. I'll put my hand up and say I was glad the Hawks lost, and not even because of 2008, but because they haven't lost a GF in a long time. Their supporters have developed a smug sense of entitlement that goes with unfettered success and now they know how it feels. Also I hate Al Clarkson, watching his face after Malceski nailed that sealer was highlight of the GF for me. But I digress, I'm not going to lie some of the Geelong supporters on this site drive me up the wall and I don't post on our board much such is the close-mindedness of some of them. But some of the Hawk supporters on BF are absolute woeful and have a history of trolling Geelong more than any other supporter base. So thats where the overkill stems from

But you shouldn't get pissed about what other fans think, its totally irrelevant. Hawthorn are a great club with a great future. Yesterday's loss will spur them on to better things (as unfortunate as that is to admit).

 

[Cursed Cat]

Great post up to that point, but loses its way from there on.

You can't bring up the admitted over abundance of Hawk posters in threads negative towards the cats without acknowledging exactly the same phenomena in anti-Hawk threads. It is laughable the imbalance of cat posters you see in "Buddy is selfish", "Rioli is shit", etc etc threads. Some neutral supporter did stats on this in Bay 13 threads, and found Cats were definitely the more obsessed of the two groups. You'll also find the majority of these "what about 2008" retorts are made in these anti-hawk, cat-wank-fest threads.


Certainly, and I admit to being quite happy to see Freo knock Geelong out of the finals this year (partly for rivalry reasons, but partly because I thought it eased our path to making the GF, given how we've performed against Geelong since 08).



Comparing the Hawthorn and Cat boards right now, I'd say the Hawthorn board has the expected amount of teeth gnashing expected after losing a close GF where your team started favourite with the bookies. The vast majority of Hawk posters seem to think they were beaten by a better team, a bridge many many Cat fans were not able to get over in 2008. The Geelong board on the other hand is sporting several classless threads revelling in a loss they had no part in orchestrating, and had no direct benefit from. Looks cheap and nasty, and leaves one wondering why Cat fans bother denying their Hawthorn obsession. Sure we'd gloat a bit if the situation was reversed, that is the nature of a rivalry, but the Cat threads I'm looking at seem way over the top, and makes them look way more psychologically scarred than they should be after winning 3 recent flags. Certainly a massive lack of dignity being shown on the Geelong board right now, so I doubt they've learnt much from their 2008 melt down. There are some quality cat posters who have expressed their distaste at these threads, and kudos to them, but unfortunately they are in the minority.

I don't wanna get into a whole thing; in some ways this is a nice juncture for a mature, balanced BF poster to start declining the opportunity to engage in this seemingly never-ending rivalry/war. It's somewhat exhausting, the games themselves are tough enough to endure without all this added palava.

But I respond regardless :

Your first point, upon closer inspection, is pretty spot-on if I'm to be honest. Of course 'we' give as good as we get.
But we've had a lot of ammunition over the past 4 years.
I will concede this : after the Hawkins-goal-win (round 19 ?), there was a bit of a lull. Maybe some very begrudging respect from most (discounting the disproportional amount of peanuts that Hawthorn seems to attract).
That was a good sign.
Hawthorn will beat Geelong again; until then we have call to be up-and-about. That's the way it is. But when our integrity as a club is put into question, and our achievements undermined, we get a bit testy.

Your 2nd point; I have no problem with an opposition supporter, especially a Hawthorn supporter, barracking for Geelong to be knocked out of the finals. It is a back-handed mark of respect.
Geelong probably would have been keen to play Hawthorn in this years finals series due to the psychological factors involved, and because of the fact that we just seem to beat you a lot lately. But it wasn't to be. Hawthorn went further, but unfortunately the AFL culture dictates that 2nd isn't really any better than 7th. You 'win' a crappier draft pick, it hardly seems fair - and I say that without sarcasm.

Lastly : what do you expect ? For the reasons I outlined in true TL;DR fashion, there is a lot of animosity between the supporters of the two sides, particularly behind the relatively safe anonymity of Big Footy and the internet.
This week we had obnoxious weeds like Necromancer Beth trolling on the main board of this site before Hawthorn had actually won. Going back to the title of this thread, that is the very definition of 'hubris'.
Geelong supporters didn't want Hawthorn supporters to win, because of a million little reasons, and a few big-ish ones.
We haven't gone overboard on the main board; but we expressed our feelings on our own board.
If the roles were reversed, I would probably take a look at the Hawthorn board - but to be honest I would find the blackly funny side of it.
That's just me.

Geelong, the club, and by extension, for a while, the fans, earned a reputation as being humble in victory.

But that has eroded off-field and online over the years. (particularly on BF !)

How drained do you feel, hk89, after yesterday's loss ? No ??

It's been a long run of exhilarating highs mixed with familiar (for a Geelong supporter) moments of doubt ('08 GF, QF against St. Kilda, free kick against Mooney; smashing in 2010 PF by Collingwood).
Our good will and beneficence at a time when our hard-earned success is routinely downplayed has become strained and ragged.

 

[seysearles]

During this post-'08 environment, it is my submission that a hardcore contingent of recalcitrant Big Footy Hawthorn supporters undertook an unspoken campaign to smear, discredit, disrespect and undermine *anything* Geelong achieved.

Your post was pretty accurate and well balanced until this paragraph. You're deluded if you think that decent in nastiness was initiated exclusively (or even largely) by Hawthorn supporters. The truth is the nasty chapter of the Hawthorn-Geelong rivalry stems from Geelong knowing they f#cked up in '08 and reacting to, an admittedly 'all to ready to mock', Hawthorn fan base by trying to discredit the flag in just about any and every way thinkable. This reaction was as widespread and as vitriolic as any 'campaign' that you're saying followed it. Apportion blame if you can from that knot of a scenario if you dare but the truth is that it has been a tit for tat conflict that started with the odd backhand and ballooned into deep rooted bitterness. To try to retrospectively apportion the lion's share of the blame to one of the parties is frankly just clutching a straws and if you were honest with yourself you'd admit that.

 

[seysearles]

Comparing the Hawthorn and Cat boards right now, I'd say the Hawthorn board has the expected amount of teeth gnashing expected after losing a close GF where your team started favourite with the bookies. The vast majority of Hawk posters seem to think they were beaten by a better team, a bridge many many Cat fans were not able to get over in 2008. The Geelong board on the other hand is sporting several classless threads revelling in a loss they had no part in orchestrating, and had no direct benefit from. Looks cheap and nasty, and leaves one wondering why Cat fans bother denying their Hawthorn obsession. Sure we'd gloat a bit if the situation was reversed, that is the nature of a rivalry, but the Cat threads I'm looking at seem way over the top, and makes them look way more psychologically scarred than they should be after winning 3 recent flags. Certainly a massive lack of dignity being shown on the Geelong board right now, so I doubt they've learnt much from their 2008 melt down. There are some quality cat posters who have expressed their distaste at these threads, and kudos to them, but unfortunately they are in the minority.

Very well said!

 

[Chewy]

That's a start fpm84, but it goes deeper than that both on Big Footy and to a slightly lesser degree in the wider footy community.
*sits in rocking chair*

Go back to the infamous 1985 game at Princes Park when Jacko was reported on something like 6 different charges, and Leigh Matthews broke an unsuspecting Neville Bruns' jaw.
I was there that day, just a kid (must've been 9), I liked the excitement of a bit of biffo as much as any lad but it was a weird, horrible atmosphere that day.
Both teams can share blame for the way things played out on field that day, Matthews descent into thuggery the brutal denouement on a dark afternoon.

Resentment lingered, Bruns broke the players 'code' and gave a damning testimony at the tribunal, Matthews was deregistered.

After that, for a long time Hawthorn had the wood on Geelong.
Looking over the head-to-head records, Hawthorn defeated Geelong *11 times in a row* between 1985-1991.

They prevented us from making the finals in 1987 in the final round at Kardinia Park (I was there too; very upset), Geelong played out of their skins for three quarters, but Hawthorn were too good in the end; although they did get one veeeery contentious 'deliberate out of bounds' free kick, which Dunstall duly converted - I don't think I had *ever* seen a 'deliberate' free kick paid in my short life to that point.
Anyway, Geelong lost, Hawthorn went on to lose the '87 GF to Carlton.

The two teams only met twice in 1989, yet both games were stone classics - both Hawthorn victories, the 2nd of which resulted in a flag to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn retained their knack for knocking over Geelong in both significant and close games (e.g. the 1991 semi-final at Waverley, or the 2000 elimination final, which capped a five-game winning streak against Geelong with a combined winning margain of just 59 points)

So far, so much suck for Geelong.

But the Footy Gods smiled upon Geelong supporters in 2007.
In many ways these things became irrelevant to me that day.
Hawthorn fans were very quick to remind us that we had beaten every team except them that year, though.

Then 2008; a year in which the simmering Big Footy cyber-war blew up (it was Skynet all over again).

Hawthorn fans have pointed out that a lot of Geelong supporters on this site reacted poorly.
I remember that period and I have to say quite a few did, unfortunately.
The term 'Bradbury-premiership' became popular. I never liked it.
It was a cold comfort to me, it was a line of argument I never personally bothered pursuing as it only led to more humiliation.

At this stage, Hawthorn supporters had quite a lot to be cocky about, no doubt.

But Geelong, the club, fought back onfield in a - in my opinion - gritty manner, to win another two flags, marking the clubs most successful era.

Along the way the Cats chalked up a series of memorable, stirring wins against Hawthorn - a lot of close, tight, contentious games. 9 of them and counting.

For a long time, too long, Hawthorn fans were very quick to bring up the spectre of 2008, e.g. 'you can have your win, I still have the memories of '08 and that's what matters.' Words to that effect.
After a while it became 'if I had to trade (insert #) h&a losses for a Premiership I would'
Or, 'wait til we play you in a final'.

It took Tom Hawkins after-the-siren heart-breaker to silence many of the haters, but by then the damage was well and truly done in the eyes of many Geelong fans on this site, and to a lesser extent those in the community (I know my fair share of Hawthorn supporters in RL, with three particularly rabid family members in that mix).

During this post-'08 environment, it is my submission that a hardcore contingent of recalcitrant Big Footy Hawthorn supporters undertook an unspoken campaign to smear, discredit, disrespect and undermine *anything* Geelong achieved.

Unfortunately, they have had to churn out many, many words of anti-Geelong propaganda, because the Cats won plenty of big games, plenty of finals and two flags during the time that this online, footy-centric version of the Cold War has played out.

It has always been Hawthorn supporters leading the chorus when it comes to threads on Selwood ducking, or Johnson/Chapman diving, or the *whole team* playing for free kicks - as a general rule they have given us zero respect - check out recent main board (not Bay 13) threads on Wojcinski and Scarlett which had their fair share of Hawthorn supporters taking cheap shots at them. Par for the course.

It has been a relentless and frankly tiresome tide of negativity toward Geelong from them; akin to the curent political paradigm. Perhaps that is fitting from supporters of a team formerly run by Jeff Kennett.

So, there is a potted history from a Geelong supporter.
Of course Hawthorn fans will have their version of events.
And so it goes.

I will say this : the great thing about Australia and one of the good things left about the AFL is the capacity for opposing teams' supporters to co-mingle.
There is passion, vitriol, emotions run high; but rarely is there really serious trouble.
I hope things stay that way.

Anyway, I personally have no problem with having my fun, within reason, when it comes to Hawthorn blowing their chance in 2012; I have no doubt they would be ****-a-hoop if the roles were reversed.
I haven't trolled their board, and have kept in perspective both Geelong's lack of success this season, and also the wider fate of the Grand Final day loser; it's is such a hollow, horrible feeling.
Without giving any specific sympathy to Hawthorn or it's supporters, it is a sad fact of sport that the loser in any Grand Final-type event suffers more misery and scrutiny than the also-rans they defeated along the way to their ultimate failure.

Perhaps the loss will be the force-fed humble pie that these fans need to learn humility and dignity in victory and defeat.

I don't really have a problem with any other team in the comp, or their supporters, personally.
Even Freo .

The thread is about Hawthorn's supposed hubris, in particular an article written by Rohan Connolly which alludes to Hawthorn taking it "one flag at a time"

For some reason, you've decided to write a 10,000 word essay on why you hate Hawthorn which traces all the way back to the day Leigh Mathews broke Neville Bruns' jaw. You close your petty, self-righteous diatribe with a gloat over Hawthorn losing the 2012 Grand Final and act as though you're above the trolling from Hawk fans

How is any of this relevant to the topic?

 

[hk89]

It's not malicious, or 'nasty' - as you put it, to simply post on a forum that you're happy to see a rival lose.

Fair comment, but what about starting a 'Your favourite Hawk Board Posts' thread to track the most pitiful reactions of your rival after they suffer a heart wrenching loss? Classless, and I doubt moderators on the Hawthorn board would even allow it.

But you shouldn't get pissed about what other fans think, its totally irrelevant. Hawthorn are a great club with a great future. Yesterday's loss will spur them on to better things (as unfortunate as that is to admit).

Thanks, I'd be very happy if we responded even half as well as Geelong did after 2008, two more flags showed both their class and strength of mental resolve.