Politics Hypocrisy of The Right.

[Vassp]

... which has what to do with his freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of your actions. Musk is reaping the consequences of being a dick pretty publicly online alongside subverting democratic institutions to benefit himself; neither of those two things constitute limiting what he can say.

I still think it's wild that you thi k his speech is constrained in any way. He's remade an entire social media site to promote his speech. He's in all probability the loudest person on earth at the moment, louder even than Trump.

People who haven't demonstrably lied to you?

didnt think mention his speech? I mentioned his situation while getting involved in politics.

 

[Gralin]

who did he censor? did I miss something? NDAs on who and why ?

did you watch his speech?

I see we've reached the asking questions in response to questions section of the discussion

I'd really prefer you answer my question before we continue



You said his stance on free speech is a great step forward

so what is his stance on free speech that you think is a great step forward

because from what I can see he doesn't support free speech, he supports his rights to say and do what he wants and to stop others from saying and doing what they want if they aren't in his best interests

but here's an article from 2023 stating that Musk's twitter complies more government censorship requests than twitter did before he took over

Twitter Has Complied With Almost Every Government Request For Censorship Since Musk Took Over, Report Finds

The social media platform has not reported denying any government requests since Musk bought it, a change from its previous ownership.

www.forbes.com

The new numbers mark a steep increase from the six months before Musk bought the company, when Twitter fully complied with 280 out of 550 requests—about 51% of requests were fully complied with, compared with 83% while Musk headed the firm.

again I'm not coming up with anything new

US regulator targets Tesla on NDAs, over-the-air software updates | TechCrunch

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sent a pair of letters to Tesla targeting the company's use of non-disclosure agreements for

techcrunch.com

the US regulator was after Tesla 5 years ago for their use of NDAs

they wanted to stop people using their self driving software from reporting issues to the regulator

this is just an example

Tesla also required people to sign NDAs to receive compensation for crashes so they couldn't publicly confirm if Tesla was at fault

 

[Vassp]

I see we've reached the asking questions in response to questions section of the discussion

I'd really prefer you answer my question before we continue



You said his stance on free speech is a great step forward

so what is his stance on free speech that you think is a great step forward

because from what I can see he doesn't support free speech, he supports his rights to say and do what he wants and to stop others from saying and doing what they want if they aren't in his best interests

but here's an article from 2023 stating that Musk's twitter complies more government censorship requests than twitter did before he took over

Twitter Has Complied With Almost Every Government Request For Censorship Since Musk Took Over, Report Finds

The social media platform has not reported denying any government requests since Musk bought it, a change from its previous ownership.

www.forbes.com

again I'm not coming up with anything new

US regulator targets Tesla on NDAs, over-the-air software updates | TechCrunch

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sent a pair of letters to Tesla targeting the company's use of non-disclosure agreements for

techcrunch.com

the US regulator was after Tesla 5 years ago for their use of NDAs

they wanted to stop people using their self driving software from reporting issues to the regulator

this is just an example

Tesla also required people to sign NDAs to receive compensation for crashes so they couldn't publicly confirm if Tesla was at fault

"The new numbers mark a steep increase from the six months before Musk bought the company, when Twitter fully complied with 280 out of 550 requests—about 51% of requests were fully complied with, compared with 83% while Musk headed the firm."

Like football stats----don't tell the full story.

"The majority of recent requests have come from foreign governments, such as India, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and Germany, all of which have increased internet regulations in the past year, according to the report—none came from the U.S."

Not saying much IMO.

NDAs and big business are not uncommon... how does this have anything to do with Vance's ethics/stance on free speech?

 

[Gralin]

"The new numbers mark a steep increase from the six months before Musk bought the company, when Twitter fully complied with 280 out of 550 requests—about 51% of requests were fully complied with, compared with 83% while Musk headed the firm."

Like football stats----don't tell the full story.

"The majority of recent requests have come from foreign governments, such as India, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and Germany, all of which have increased internet regulations in the past year, according to the report—none came from the U.S."

Not saying much IMO.

NDAs and big business are not uncommon... how does this have anything to do with Vance's ethics/stance on free speech?

You didn't mention Vance in your post you mentioned Elon

But you still have not answered my question about what his stance is or why it's a good step

 

[Vassp]

You didn't mention Vance in your post you mentioned Elon

But you still have not answered my question about what his stance is or why it's a good step

oh! Elons stance on free speech, this is a tough call. Ive heard him speak freely on his business in a positive and negative way, tough call, was it his call on the NDa? maybe, he does run the show so I guess.

He bought twitter for a reason. because it was slanted towards one political party.

 

[Gralin]

oh! Elons stance on free speech, this is a tough call. Ive heard him speak freely on his business in a positive and negative way, tough call, was it his call on the NDa? maybe, he does run the show so I guess.

He bought twitter for a reason. because it was slanted towards one political party.

you still haven't answered the question

if you were talking about Vance not Musk and just being really unclear in your post that is fine

you can answer the same question re Vance

what is is his stance and why is it a good step

I don't think twitter was slanted towards one political party but of course that is the story Elon tells

it wasn't even a specifically left wing site, the algorithm favoured right wing accounts, probably because of the engagement they got

X is now definitely slanted towards one side and its pretty clear that Elon bought it to influence elections towards parties that will serve his needs the best (or that he thinks will)

 

[Gethelred]

didnt think mention his speech? I mentioned his situation while getting involved in politics.

You said this:

I agree, but the left has been taken over by woke culture and cancel culture, not only the left but our universities are also affected, this is a big problem facing our world.

it's like a false democracy where they pretend to stand for it, but then cancel free speech, and attack people and businesses.

look what they are doing to Elon Musk, that is a serious problem.

... with the bolded phrase following the second paragraph providing Musk as evidence.

If that wasn't what you meant, apologies.

 

[bourbons]

you still haven't answered the question

Bit of that going round lol

Just in the name of balance, are there any serious problems with what Elon has been up to recently would you say?

Vassp?

 

[Gralin]

Just totally normal stuff happening here with a nice side of self own

 

[Chicken Treat]

Well done students at my old stomping ground. You had nothing to apologise for.

 

[dorianyates]

I agree, but the left has been taken over by woke culture and cancel culture, not only the left but our universities are also affected, this is a big problem facing our world.

it's like a false democracy where they pretend to stand for it, but then cancel free speech, and attack people and businesses.

look what they are doing to Elon Musk, that is a serious problem.

G’day Vassp, I was a bit surprised by this reply. Surprised because I didn’t believe that free speech was the most pressing issue.
With your university remarks, is this based on listening to Jordan Peterson podcasts?

 

[Vassp]

G’day Vassp, I was a bit surprised by this reply. Surprised because I didn’t believe that free speech was the most pressing issue.
With your university remarks, is this based on listening to Jordan Peterson podcasts?

not from Jordan entriely, its all over the place, inc right here at bigfooty.

Why do you ask ?

 

[Blue1980]

I agree, but the left has been taken over by woke culture and cancel culture, not only the left but our universities are also affected, this is a big problem facing our world.

it's like a false democracy where they pretend to stand for it, but then cancel free speech, and attack people and businesses.

look what they are doing to Elon Musk, that is a serious problem.

It’s wild how the real victims these days are multi-billionaires with government contracts, massive influence, and direct access to the global media.

Meanwhile, the average person is struggling with housing, wages, healthcare, or in many parts of the world… just staying alive.

But yes, let’s rally behind Elon Musk — the man who bought Twitter to promote ‘free speech,’ then immediately started banning critics, journalists, and anyone who posted plane-tracking data.

And if universities encouraging critical thinking and diversity is the downfall of civilisation, then I guess the Enlightenment was also a ‘woke psyop’?

 

[Vassp]

Can I ask, what experience with universities (plural) have you had? First/second hand? Third hand through ideologically prejudiced sources, like the ones that would use the term 'woke mind virus' unironically?

I'm asking because that's a pretty sweeping claim to make. All universities affected? All faculties within those institutions? Only some?

... I'm sorry, what?

The desire to silence people who don't agree with you is not a left or right wing impulse. It's a position on the levels of societal freedom, and at present the largest threat to free speech worldwide isn't coming from the left.

Which is not to say it's a right wing thing, either, just that right now that threat is coming from the other direction.

...

What precisely is happening to Elon Musk, Vassp?

He's not being silenced; if anything, his voice is being projected louder than it ever has, with legitmacy and government support that it has never had before. His will is being enacted over government, the oversight applied to him is being uprooted and overturned.

His speech is so much stronger than it was prior to both the US and German elections. He's essentially proven in under six months that George Orwell was correct: all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

the largest threat to democracy is coming from the left, there is no doubt in my mind.

You just have to look at the biden vs trump admins, complete contrast.

The problem is this i believe.....

Its like we have two footy teams, one on the left and one on the right, its a win at all costs type of scenario.
each supporter doesnt want to give up any ground in the fear of losing.

I on the other hand will readily admit things I dont like about Trump, but in here its not a two way street where postiers will NOT give up any ground because of a fear of a losing.

Burning of Elons cars, shootings at his dealerships, death threats all because of his new roll- i think thats a problem dont you ?

Dont you belive universities are slanted to the left? or is it just what i am seeing online? id like your take on that please.

 

[Vassp]

It’s wild how the real victims these days are multi-billionaires with government contracts, massive influence, and direct access to the global media.

Meanwhile, the average person is struggling with housing, wages, healthcare, or in many parts of the world… just staying alive.

But yes, let’s rally behind Elon Musk — the man who bought Twitter to promote ‘free speech,’ then immediately started banning critics, journalists, and anyone who posted plane-tracking data.

And if universities encouraging critical thinking and diversity is the downfall of civilisation, then I guess the Enlightenment was also a ‘woke psyop’?

your take on what i am thinking is incorrect, you got me wrong on that.

Billionairs are nothing new, so why do we have the Elon hate now all of a sudden?

Ill tell you why, because he is cleaning up the waste and corruption that needed cleaning up for the sake of the country.

this has been found out with proof mind you, and the people who benefit are crying foul.

Its pretty clear to me he has taken this position on at a huge loss to his personal life, and business.

So what is his mission? thought that was pretty evident.?

THE USA owes too much money and they need to bring the deficit down, as has been said 100s of times.

Why should plane tracking data be of importance ? what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Vassp]

what is his stance

because he is happy to censor people that don't agree with him

since he bought twitter more government censorship requests have been enacted on his platform

he is notorious for forcing NDAs on people

NDAs are there for a reason, nothing new, been used a million times, so why is it foul play now all of a sudden?

 

[Gralin]

NDAs are there for a reason, nothing new, been used a million times, so why is it foul play now all of a sudden?

Think it's time for you to go if you can't answer a simple question

 

[Gethelred]

the largest threat to democracy is coming from the left, there is no doubt in my mind.

You just have to look at the biden vs trump admins, complete contrast.

... this seems like a thought-terminating cliche to me; you repeating something you've heard or said yourself enough times that you believe it, regardless of whether it's actually true. It also sets the framing of discussion; you attacking Biden, me supposedly defending him.

What if I told you that both Trump and Biden are representatives for different groups within the ownership classes, expressing a disagreement over how and where to apportion resources?

The problem is this i believe.....

Its like we have two footy teams, one on the left and one on the right, its a win at all costs type of scenario.
each supporter doesnt want to give up any ground in the fear of losing.

This is certainly how the media wants people to interpret it, as per the contemporary propaganda model. But this doesn't make it true or real.

I on the other hand will readily admit things I dont like about Trump, but in here its not a two way street where postiers will NOT give up any ground because of a fear of a losing.

... because you're waging that battle from the other side. You still sit within the paradigm of dem vs republican, despite it not being a true rendition of left vs right.

You look at the Democrats and think they're left wing without any real ability to demonstrate that they are actually left wing at all; not 'more left than the other option', but left wing period. Just because Pinochet was more left wing than Mussolini does not mean he was left wing.

Burning of Elons cars, shootings at his dealerships, death threats all because of his new roll- i think thats a problem dont you ?

I have a question for you: what is more of a problem to you, people dying and being persecuted by the government, or property damage?

Because the position of both parties within the political establishment in America is bipartisan on this: property damage is to be decried and condemned at all stages, while deaths and government persecution is broadly speaking perfectly fine. America is more than content to depict those they hurt as enemies regardless of whether or not they are, and are more than content to justify things pos hoc.

So, when I read this question - again, proposing a framing I genuinely don't agree with, nor do I think is accurate or acceptable - it genuinely gets me wondering whether or not you've only started paying attention within the last 20 minutes, and only after the media you consume has provided you both with what to think and how to frame it.

Because - and forgive me - but I don't think you came by this framing yourself, Vassp. Your views lack the foundations one would require to have created them organically.

Dont you belive universities are slanted to the left? or is it just what i am seeing online? id like your take on that please.

Tell you what: I asked you a whole cavalcade of questions first. If you do me the courtesy of answering mine, I'll furnish you with answers to yours.

 

[Borough Blood]

Ill tell you why, because he is cleaning up the waste and corruption that needed cleaning up for the sake of the country.

this has been found out with proof mind you

Should be pretty easy to post some of this proof. Eager to see it.

 

[Blue1980]

your take on what i am thinking is incorrect, you got me wrong on that.

Billionairs are nothing new, so why do we have the Elon hate now all of a sudden?

Ill tell you why, because he is cleaning up the waste and corruption that needed cleaning up for the sake of the country.

this has been found out with proof mind you, and the people who benefit are crying foul.

Its pretty clear to me he has taken this position on at a huge loss to his personal life, and business.

So what is his mission? thought that was pretty evident.?

THE USA owes too much money and they need to bring the deficit down, as has been said 100s of times.

Why should plane tracking data be of importance ? what does that have to do with anything?

Interesting take. A few quick clarifications:

• You mentioned “proof” that Elon is cleaning up waste and corruption — where exactly has that been published or verified?

As far as I can see, DOGE has claimed massive fraud, but hasn’t provided any transparent data, no prosecutions, and even got blocked by a federal judge for trying to fish through Social Security systems without cause. So… still waiting on the actual receipts.

- If Musk is losing so much personally and professionally, why is he… still doing it? Usually billionaires don’t voluntarily sacrifice themselves for public service. Especially ones with multiple private jets and record-breaking Pentagon contracts.

- As for bringing the deficit down — cutting cancer research and weather balloon launches seems like an odd place to start while defence spending continues to rise and aid to certain allies goes untouched.

- And on the plane tracking — it’s only relevant because Musk pushed to censor it on Twitter while calling himself a free speech absolutist. Kind of hard to be both the transparency crusader and the guy shutting down public information, no?

Anyway, happy to be corrected if there’s something concrete you’ve seen that others haven’t.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Ill tell you why, because he is cleaning up the waste and corruption that needed cleaning up for the sake of the country.

this has been found out with proof mind you, and the people who benefit are crying foul.
So what is his mission? thought that was pretty evident.?
THE USA owes too much money and they need to bring the deficit down, as has been said 100s of times.

So far, DOGE has found $35 billion dollars worth of possible waste or poorly managed processes according to the data I can find.
Here’s the kicker, not for the fiscal year, but ranging from the beginning of Biden’s Presidency.
Soooooo $8.75 billion in poor management every year.
Elon takes more than that in subsidies and government contracts.
He’s saving the universe!