I know I won't be popular but its time for..

[Wooljay]

goldy fresh aired it then got it back and handballed to beams...just finished watching the game. off to bed

Alright, more than happy to admit when I'm wrong, however there are other instances you can easily isolate which attest to his merit regardless. The only point I'm trying to draw is that Lockyer is replaceable yes, but is not without his influence and ability to contribute in a side which just downed a side which has been touted to win the flag by a cool 48 points. I'm just trying to argue that replacing him isn't as easier as waving a wand and wishing for it to be so.

 

[Somebody]

....

I will also say experience and hard bodies are important in finals. He provides that over a McCarthy or younger player who is still being groomed.

Exactly what i was going to say, and we are probably a bit light on experience so it's likely that 1 or 2 of the older players like tarks, medders and obee will be important in the finals depending on form. didn't really notice Tarks much in this game but he is a cool head, great leader, clever player, great kick at goal and has plenty of finals experience. Would be a well-deserved reward for him if he played in a winning grannie (but obviously shouldn't be in that game just for sentimental reasons). WAsn't he even there during the Shaw years (which ended in 99)?

 

[September Action]

Dick, T.Cloke and Maxwell are 3 automatic ins IMO.

Plus Medhurst who if can find form offers plenty.

Tough to get a gig at the moment, the best sign that we are a good team.

Lockyer aint passed it, he still has contributed pretty much every week....but would be in the gun to miss out. A bloke of his character will go back to VFL play his hardest, get 20+ touches and a few goals and force himself back into the team.

What is with the continual need to write off senior players as finished, passed it, no longer required etc.??

OK, i'll throw one out there. IS Maxwell an automatic in?

Re: Lockyer, perhaps a spell might be worthwhile. Want to have a bit of experience around come finals time but at the same time can't carry blokes. A fit and firing Tarks would be welcome in my team. Likewise Maxy, but he wasn't at his best pre injury. We've got a few rounds to see who wants it most. Nice to have this pressure for spots.

 

[Premier Pies]

OK, i'll throw one out there. IS Maxwell an automatic in?

Re: Lockyer, perhaps a spell might be worthwhile. Want to have a bit of experience around come finals time but at the same time can't carry blokes. A fit and firing Tarks would be welcome in my team. Likewise Maxy, but he wasn't at his best pre injury. We've got a few rounds to see who wants it most. Nice to have this pressure for spots.

You have to be kidding right? Captain, best third man up in the league, creates run from the backline, tough uncompromising footballer, I could go on.....Automatic in, no question about that

 

[Somebody]

Just watched 1st 3 q's and Lochyer played a solid and useful game linking up, probably saved some StK goals and had a hand in some of ours. Nothing spectacular really, whether someone else could have done as good a job I don't know. Definitley Medders if in form, but not sure he is right now. Maybe McCarthy when he is match fit would do better, but again the experience factor is important in finals.

 

[Chartreuse]

A new bloke at work walked past my desk the other day and spotted my Collingwood scarf draping my screen. Ironically he is NEIGHBOURS with Lockyer.

Had a good chat about him, and apart from raving about what a top bloke he is (we all know that), he reckons he is as dedicated as ever to the CFC and playing good footy.

FWIW I thought he had another solid game and do not think he should be dropped. Yeah he had a few clanger possessions...but who didn't...even Didak unexplicably turned it over a few times. And he put as much pressure on as anybody else.

In fact, other than Maxwell coming back in, the side looks fine to me as it is. Question is, who do you omit for Maxwell. Arguably on his last AFL performance, Dick should also get a go but not so sure Locky is the person to make way.

 

[loki04]

Dick, T.Cloke and Maxwell are 3 automatic ins IMO.

Plus Medhurst who if can find form offers plenty.

Tough to get a gig at the moment, the best sign that we are a good team.

Lockyer aint passed it, he still has contributed pretty much every week....but would be in the gun to miss out. A bloke of his character will go back to VFL play his hardest, get 20+ touches and a few goals and force himself back into the team.

What is with the continual need to write off senior players as finished, passed it, no longer required etc.??

He is an auto in because he is captain but his form prior to injury wasn't good at all and the defence has been great so don't know who you will drop for him.

As for Tarks he should make way for Rounds imo against Richmond and see how he goes.

 

[loki04]

You have to be kidding right? Captain, best third man up in the league, creates run from the backline, tough uncompromising footballer, I could go on.....Automatic in, no question about that

Yep he is captain, yep he brings an extra element of courage and hardness to the backline and does a great job of chopping off attacks if left loose.

BUT,he isn't the best 3rd man up in the league Fisher/Gilbert are and they are more damaging by foot, he creates run but bombs it forward to a non advantage more often then not.

His form has been poor to average all year and was getting more and more exposed 1 on 1 this year, his 09 year was great but so far in 2010 he has not been great bar the odd quarter here and there.

Off form if Maxwell wasn't captain he may not be an auto in sure he brings some very good attributes to the team but he also has his weakness' and his replacement (Goldsack) has been excellent since in.

So OFF form should he be an auto in NO, he should come through the VFL and reearn his spot. If it's good enough for Buckley who was 100 times the player Maxwell is then it's good enough for him.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Lockyer to make way. With the depth we have at our disposal he simply is not in our best 22 and today was it for me.

So many times he was slow - not so much even in the legs but in the mind!

Just didn't know what to do to get space or time, turned it over on almost all occasions he was involved.

Got involved in 2 or 3 good passages of play late in the game but that should not overshadow the fact that he was more of a liability in todays game where everyone else seemed to be firing on all cylinders (except for Blair who is only in 3 rd game so no probs there)

It was one of the more complete performances from our team as a whole with every player on song I thought which made Lockyers deficiencies that much more noticeable I'm afraid.

Great servant, loved his leadership and clutch goals over the years but needs to make way and become a reserve (for injured or out of form players only) for the rest of the year.

Has not been in bad form. At the moment I'd say Blair, Lockyer and Johnson (had a great start but has dropped off in recent weeks) will likely be the players to make way.

Right now I have Goldsack just ahead of Johnson and Maxwell would be the replacement.

And Macaffer I'm also liking his current form to consider him worth keeping in the side.

So Cloke and Medhurst would be my other ins. Medhurst I have the feeling that the club is trying to run him into form in the 2nds. His form there over the last month has been very solid and he should soon make his way back into the side for Lockyer.

Blair is a spirited little chap. We haven't seen the end of him but he still at this stage isn't in our best 22.

At this stage based on current form our best 22 in my view is:

F: Paul Medhurst Chris Dawes Brent Macaffer
HF: Leon Davis Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Dane Swan Sharrod Wellingham
HB: Nick Maxwell Ben Reid Heath Shaw
B: Harry O'Brien Simon Prestigiacomo Alan Toovey
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Scott Pendlebury
BENCH: Steele Sidebottom Dayne Beams Leigh Brown Tyson Goldsack
EMG: Nathan Brown Brad Dick Ben Johnson (out of form)

*All the emergencies could obviously work their way back into the side as well as another probably 7 or 8 who are without a doubt a chance.*

 

[Pie eyed]

The only way any players is going to be dropped from Saturday is if another shows better form or that player is injured.
That said, MM has indicated we'll be selecting on a horses for courses basis and has displayed his intention to do it, so there could changes soley on oppo match-ups.

These threads announcing this or that players time is up piss me off.

Making threads for threads sake I reckon.

 

[TradeDraft]

NO I think it would not hurt the side as I think he has Slowed Down and Yes he is Consistent but looks at times at Step behind.

Rounds Could do his Job just as well

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Tarks has fumbled for weeks and disposes too hurriedly as someone accurately remarked. Tarks is one of the players deserving a bit of sentiment and loyalty, but having daid that, he has been surpassed by several others and his AFL games are likely to be few in number.

So half the Pies supporters think he isn't urgent enough, and the other half think he's too urgent? FFs.

He was our 22nd player out there, and as for his disposal efficiency, it wasn't that bad when you compare it to Davis who is protected and lauded by the people on this board. It wasn't his best game yesterday, but he is still better than the alternatives in the VFL (except Dick).

 

[The Norm]

Has not been in bad form. At the moment I'd say Blair, Lockyer and Johnson (had a great start but has dropped off in recent weeks) will likely be the players to make way.

Right now I have Goldsack just ahead of Johnson and Maxwell would be the replacement.

Johnno won't be getting dropped, his last three games prior to yesterday were poor but we need his run off half-back.

Only one of Toovey and Goldsack will be in the team come finals, I don't think you can play them both. Having said that it was interesting to see Goldy drift forward yesterday, didn't play great when there but he did make an impact.

As for Tarks, I agree with the OP. He's still serviceable, but should only be an option if someone within the best 22 (Medhurst included) is injured.
He's struggling physically and seems to have lost his instincts.
Is a great player to have on the periphery of the 22, not many other teams would have a player of his ilk available as depth.

 

[The Zone]

Disagree. Tarks was handy yesterday. We've got a few players who are amongst the best going around. You can't expect all 22 at that standard. Yesterday showed what a team effort can do and all 22 did their job.

Tarks has got a good footy brain and plenty of experience. I think bringing too many young guys up is risky. Too much youth is prone to brittle psyche and composure. I think the blend is good at the moment.

I've watched Rounds and liked what I saw but I agree with Wooljay(?) that now is not the time to promote him to AFL. Next year. We've probably got 28 players with AFL experience and capability at the moment and can cover most contingencies as we head for the finals. Let's work with them and consolidate the gains made this year.

Tarks should be picked according to team needs but any idea that he's past it is crap.

 

[sgnl00]

I am conflicted. He has lost some pace and the ability to find the ball, but he is an incredibly smart and patient footballer.

 

[Paddywhackers]

I think it is fantastic that we beat the Saints comfortably yet have blatant improvement in this occasion the form of replacing an ageing Lockyer for one of Dick and Medhurst.

Maxwell and Cloke have to come back into that side aswell.

I just can't wait for finals to be honest.

 

[loki04]

Rounds is an upgrade on Tarkyn, sentimentality gets in the way with Tarks because he is a good bloke and a loyal servant who will give a consistent performance.

For me Rounds should be given opportunity vs Richmond, Essendon and Carlton to show what he has to offer and give him a taste for 2011.

 

[Rush Stand]

A great servant of the football club but we have better options at our disposal now. Looked out of sync and off the pace from the rest of the side today. Medhurst, Dick and Rounds are better alternatives for his position in the side. We must be ruthless, a flag is at stake here and Lockyer was a passenger against St Kilda.

 

[mrmagoo]

Lockyer to make way. With the depth we have at our disposal he simply is not in our best 22 and today was it for me.

So many times he was slow - not so much even in the legs but in the mind!

Just didn't know what to do to get space or time, turned it over on almost all occasions he was involved.

Got involved in 2 or 3 good passages of play late in the game but that should not overshadow the fact that he was more of a liability in todays game where everyone else seemed to be firing on all cylinders (except for Blair who is only in 3 rd game so no probs there)

It was one of the more complete performances from our team as a whole with every player on song I thought which made Lockyers deficiencies that much more noticeable I'm afraid.

Great servant, loved his leadership and clutch goals over the years but needs to make way and become a reserve (for injured or out of form players only) for the rest of the year.

Reluctantly agree!
Time for Tarks to join O'Bree and Fraser in the 2's for the rest of the year.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Rounds is an upgrade on Tarkyn, sentimentality gets in the way with Tarks because he is a good bloke and a loyal servant who will give a consistent performance.

For me Rounds should be given opportunity vs Richmond, Essendon and Carlton to show what he has to offer and give him a taste for 2011.

What's with the board's obsession with kids?

Rounds is not an upgrade on Tarkyn. Rounds is yet to play an AFL game. Tarkyn has played in excess of 200.

I don't get how everyone wants our 20th->22nd players to be BOG weekly, and have a hissy fit when they aren't. He was solid yesterday, that's all you can ask. If our 22nd player played like Tarks did yesterday every week I'd certainly take it.

 

[magicpants]

What's with the board's obsession with kids?

Rounds is not an upgrade on Tarkyn. Rounds is yet to play an AFL game. Tarkyn has played in excess of 200.

I don't get how everyone wants our 20th->22nd players to be BOG weekly, and have a hissy fit when they aren't. He was solid yesterday, that's all you can ask. If our 22nd player played like Tarks did yesterday every week I'd certainly take it.

First of all don't think anyone is having a hissy fit..just calling it like it is, removing any notions of loyalty, sentiment or dare I say bias Tarkyn_24?

FTR, to clarify once more, I'm not saying he is gone for the year, just think in this team there a better options.
My answer to the 'who do you replace him with calls...' is now that Macaffer looks to be back for a sustained run, Medders comes in or even Rounds for 1-2 weeks to see if he could be considered in September.

You know what Tarks will give you - if we need him in Sept due to form/injuries then call on him then.

 

[loki04]

What's with the board's obsession with kids?

Rounds is not an upgrade on Tarkyn. Rounds is yet to play an AFL game. Tarkyn has played in excess of 200.

I don't get how everyone wants our 20th->22nd players to be BOG weekly, and have a hissy fit when they aren't. He was solid yesterday, that's all you can ask. If our 22nd player played like Tarks did yesterday every week I'd certainly take it.

It's about improving the team I believe Rounds has the attributes and form to do this, Tarks is the obvious out who would play a similar role to what Rounds would be called on.

Whats the issue of playing him vs Rich, Ess and Carl? i see no downside in him playing vs the bottom teams with the form he has shown.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

It's about improving the team I believe Rounds has the attributes and form to do this, Tarks is the obvious out who would play a similar role to what Rounds would be called on.

Whats the issue of playing him vs Rich, Ess and Carl? i see no downside in him playing vs the bottom teams with the form he has shown.

Nor do I in the sense of playing him, but dropping veterans who are still consistently providing output for no particular reason isn't the way it should be done. If Lockyer dogs it against Richmond, certainly, but until Lockyer plays poorly he deserves his spot in the team.

He wasn't poor yesterday, he was solid IMO. I might be biased in what upside I consider Lockyer to have, but through the course of his career I've only called for him to be dropped once. That week, he was dropped (post Round 4 this year)

When Rounds comes in, it should be on its merits; he does the time in the VFL and when an opening due to form or injury appears, he takes it.

 

[bucksisbest]

I've been of the opinion for a while that he isn't up to it anymore , and we have several guys who would offer more , including Rounds.

 

[Michael_knoth]

Medhurst I think is the go to man.